questions about workout style while on gear

[teedoff]

Just a general question about lifting while on gear. Perhaps the wrong forum. If so, mods please move.

When on gear, is it better to lift heavy with lower reps, or more reps at lower weights? I ask because the gym I go is a semi private gym. The owner is an IFBB pro and she trains us unless she's on vacation. Her husband fills in for her when she does sometimes. They have completely opposite training styles!

She does the low reps high weight, then when he comes in, we're doing like 3 sets of 30 reps at 20% of my max. Honestly, I hate his training style! lol I know there is merits to his style of weight lifting, but while I'm on gear I kinda feel like I should be lifting as heavy as I can every set to failure.

[fit_deskjocky]

It really depends on your goal. The gear doesn't set the goal and the training style. The goal sets everything else. What are you wanting to do with this cycle?

[teedoff]

Well I'm wanting to put on some lean muscle. Doing another cycle after this one and some PCT time in between. Thankfully its only one week of dealing with his high reps style. lol

I think its more a psychological thing with me. I feel like if I'm not pushing myself every workout with heavy weights, I'm not getting my money's worth. But its weird to have her training me and having me lift heavy....then the next day him telling me to slow down and putting the cable pin on 30 pounds or something. lol

[Test Monsterone]

The best, IMO, is a combination of both. Start off with something you can do 20 times, then increase the weight so you’re doing 15 reps, and for your third set, go heavy - 10 reps max. For the final set go back to your second set weight. That’s how I do it.

[Gallowmere]

Anabolics generally tend to favor hypertrophy in the Type I (slow twitch) muscle fibers. This is why you’ll generally see the biggest guys being the obnoxious fuckers doing stupid high numbers of reps with relatively lighter weight.
That said, you should still train toward whatever YOUR specific goals are. For me, having a bunch of extra tissue that doesn’t contribute much toward my peak strength isn’t very helpful to me. If I were 275 at the same comp as 220, but still moving the same weight as when I was 220, I’d get my ass handed to me in any strength sport. As such, following a Kai Green or Jay Cutler format would be patently retarded.
Drugs basically just make everything that we do more effective, so just do whatever you need to do and make sure to scale your progressions accordingly.

ETA: comparing women to men is patently stupid, due to variances in volume tolerance, versus intensity tolerance, versus recovery rates, etc.

[teedoff]

Yes, like I said...I think it's more psychological for me. I like being able to see gains every week when adding more and more to my lifts. Last week working with her I jumped way up on my leg presses. I was extremely happy. Then 3 days later he has me doing 3 plates for 30 reps lol Don't get me wrong... I struggled completing those light weight sets. He LOVES the very slow movements in each rep as well as throwing in pauses in the reps. Thanks for all the info guys!

[rise_against]

At the end of the day it's progressive overload that builds muscle, even with gear.

[Hughinn]

Anabolics generally tend to favor hypertrophy in the Type I (slow twitch) muscle fibers. This is why you’ll generally see the biggest guys being the obnoxious fuckers doing stupid high numbers of reps with relatively lighter weight.
That said, you should still train toward whatever YOUR specific goals are. For me, having a bunch of extra tissue that doesn’t contribute much toward my peak strength isn’t very helpful to me. If I were 275 at the same comp as 220, but still moving the same weight as when I was 220, I’d get my ass handed to me in any strength sport. As such, following a Kai Green or Jay Cutler format would be patently retarded.
Drugs basically just make everything that we do more effective, so just do whatever you need to do and make sure to scale your progressions accordingly.

ETA: comparing women to men is patently stupid, due to variances in volume tolerance, versus intensity tolerance, versus recovery rates, etc.

I second this.

An athlete works out different than a bodybuilder, because most athletes are not necessarily looking for an over-all increase in mass. But in performance.

A heavyweight boxer doesn't care what his biceps look like, he just wants to hit harder, and move better.

A freestyle wrestler doesn't care what his deadlift one rep max is, he wants to be able to get up faster or ragdoll his opponents easier.

And more weight, and size, don't necessarily help those athletes.

So it's about YOUR goals.

I have always worked out like an athlete. Honestly because it's what I know.

Bodybuilders have different methods and reasons. I think the husband is an ex athlete.

So take your pick according to your goals.

[warchild]

I try to train for intensity and weight. If im not sweating or groaning then im not hitting it hard enough.

[Cuz]

Just a general question about lifting while on gear. Perhaps the wrong forum. If so, mods please move.

When on gear, is it better to lift heavy with lower reps, or more reps at lower weights? I ask because the gym I go is a semi private gym. The owner is an IFBB pro and she trains us unless she's on vacation. Her husband fills in for her when she does sometimes. They have completely opposite training styles!

She does the low reps high weight, then when he comes in, we're doing like 3 sets of 30 reps at 20% of my max. Honestly, I hate his training style! lol I know there is merits to his style of weight lifting, but while I'm on gear I kinda feel like I should be lifting as heavy as I can every set to failure.

I personally do a little bit of all it. Hypertrophy, HIT, and powerlifting. No workout is EVER the same old shit. Ive never once had a routine, i just go lift according to how i feel that day. For example if im going heavy ill get the 5x5 or 3 reppers out of the way first while im fresh and then if i want to go further like I usually do ill do some high rep moderate weight. I usually wont workout with anything under 40% 1RM unless its a feeler or warmer.
Theres really endless training, you got drop sets, half reps the list goes on. To gain size, you need to go as heavy as you can while still being able to control the mind muscle connection, full ROM, constant tension, and a good squeeze. That works for me, generally it will for everyone

You just have to grow into training and find what gives you the best results. Its something that happens over a period of years

[Albedo121]

Ton of good stuff in here! It’s also showed me why people have explained so many times why it’s important to have a lot of training under your belt before you take gear. The more time you’ve had to figure out what you’re body responds to naturally the better you’ll know what you’ll need to do on the gear. Mixing it up is likely good for you but I would say the most important part if you’re looking for mass is to make SURE you go to REAL failure. I’ve been shocked at when I would normally put down the weights vs when I’ve been training with a physique competitor and suddenly he can pull out 10 more reps, even if I need like 5-10 second rests to get them done.

[teedoff]

I never do the same exercises week in week out. Always some different set of exercises for the body part I'm training each week. One week we may do bench presses, the next dumbbell bench pressed...or dumbbell flys flat, incline, decline...cable flys....different each week.

But yes, I try to go to complete failure each set. 15 or so reps first set to failure. Go up in weight, go to failure...12 reps or so....and so on. for 3 or 4 sets. I've been training long enough to believe I respond better to that style, but maybe its because I've never really done a whole lot of high rep/low weight style lifting. I do know I dont like his style or attitude when training me though. lol Hes a different kind of guy...he's a nice guy...friendly...but he's from another country, so he's just different.

[Gallowmere]

Failure training is constantly showing up in data as being far less useful than once imagined.
When we think about it from a logical standpoint though, it makes sense. The best way I’ve heard it put (by Broderick Chavez, one of the foremost coaches of enhanced athletes in multiple sports no less, including Olympia competitors):
“Let’s say you’re going to the beach for a week, and you want to get as much sun exposure adaptation as possible.
Scenario A: you go all in on day one, and spend the whole 12 hour day on the beach. You went to absolute failure. You literally couldn’t have done any more due to time constraints. Guess what your stupid ass is now doing for the rest of the week. You’re sitting inside, in extreme pain, and probably not doing shit the rest of the weeks.
Scenario B: you go out for say two hours the first day, 2 hours the second day, 2-3 the third, and so on, slightly escalating as you go. Well now your potential exposure to the stimulus is increased by roughly double, and you’re not turning yourself into a miserable bag of shit in the process. Which do you think yields better results?”
Put in training terms, training more often, without completely destroying yourself tends to allow for more volume, more tension, more stimulus, and therefore, more results.

[Mooseman33]

this is going to sound crazy, but ur body will tell u.
if u do not have that muscle-mind connection then something is off. I believe intensity is key, focus is key. Push urself harder each day.

It should not be just one way. I do volume, HIT, whatever is needed.

take time to learn ur body, fucker will talk to u.

[Chark]

Failure training is constantly showing up in data as being far less useful than once imagined.
When we think about it from a logical standpoint though, it makes sense. The best way I’ve heard it put (by Broderick Chavez, one of the foremost coaches of enhanced athletes in multiple sports no less, including Olympia competitors):
“Let’s say you’re going to the beach for a week, and you want to get as much sun exposure adaptation as possible.
Scenario A: you go all in on day one, and spend the whole 12 hour day on the beach. You went to absolute failure. You literally couldn’t have done any more due to time constraints. Guess what your stupid ass is now doing for the rest of the week. You’re sitting inside, in extreme pain, and probably not doing shit the rest of the weeks.
Scenario B: you go out for say two hours the first day, 2 hours the second day, 2-3 the third, and so on, slightly escalating as you go. Well now your potential exposure to the stimulus is increased by roughly double, and you’re not turning yourself into a miserable bag of shit in the process. Which do you think yields better results?”
Put in training terms, training more often, without completely destroying yourself tends to allow for more volume, more tension, more stimulus, and therefore, more results.

“Stimulate, don’t annihilate” - Lee Haney

If anyone remembers, training more often was the centerpiece of the doggcrapp training style from back in the day and really pushed the philosophy Gallow mentioned.

I’ll add something different. I was reminded of this the other day when gym buddy asked why I was doing weak-ass assisted pull-ups to warm up for back. You’ll hear great advice like you’ve got to go heavy and workout with intensity, and you do, but also remember you only have so much energy. If I was doing those 100 pull-ups unassisted I’d be fairly spent before I even got to my first exercises. You need to pick where your energy goes. Pretend you’re one of those video game fighters with a stamina bar. Don’t wear yourself out on warmups. Leave a couple reps in the tank and then go out all-out intensity once you get to your heavy set.

[wango]

One thing I don’t think was touched upon is that with the lower resistance it’s not purely about just high reps. You can focus better on the movement and the contraction itself and that has a big impact for some.

It really takes time to try different approaches and which ones work better for you.

[teedoff]

Well got into it with the trainer. Lol. Been brewing. I know the gym is a time to focus, but he's a jerk. Doesn't like ppl talking at all.

Tonight I walked in, went straight to the bathroom to change clothes. Walked out and set my bag down and was putting on my gloves. He comes over and says you ready? I'm like yeah putting my gloves on. He's impatient and says something about let's go let's go. I'm like dude let me out my gloves on. So I walk over to the machine for hamstring curls and he asks if I'm there to work out or not, and if not I could leave. Lol

I said man I'm paying YOU! He said something again and said you can leave if you want to. So I said sure. No skin off my teeth and walked out.

Before I got on my bike he came out and apologized and asked me to come back in.

[Albedo121]

Failure training is constantly showing up in data as being far less useful than once imagined.
When we think about it from a logical standpoint though, it makes sense. The best way I’ve heard it put (by Broderick Chavez, one of the foremost coaches of enhanced athletes in multiple sports no less, including Olympia competitors):
“Let’s say you’re going to the beach for a week, and you want to get as much sun exposure adaptation as possible.
Scenario A: you go all in on day one, and spend the whole 12 hour day on the beach. You went to absolute failure. You literally couldn’t have done any more due to time constraints. Guess what your stupid ass is now doing for the rest of the week. You’re sitting inside, in extreme pain, and probably not doing shit the rest of the weeks.
Scenario B: you go out for say two hours the first day, 2 hours the second day, 2-3 the third, and so on, slightly escalating as you go. Well now your potential exposure to the stimulus is increased by roughly double, and you’re not turning yourself into a miserable bag of shit in the process. Which do you think yields better results?”
Put in training terms, training more often, without completely destroying yourself tends to allow for more volume, more tension, more stimulus, and therefore, more results.

If you’re destroying yourself to the point where you literally can’t work out anymore for the week I would say that’s a bit too far haha. I think in general most people believe they’re failing when they’re not even close, and when I say not even close I mean you just did 10 reps and you can get 10 more without not being able to use that body part for a week. If you’re putting yourself into rhabdo than yes I agree - you’ve gone too far lol

[Albedo121]

One thing I don’t think was touched upon is that with the lower resistance it’s not purely about just high reps. You can focus better on the movement and the contraction itself and that has a big impact for some.

It really takes time to try different approaches and which ones work better for you.

And this! Completely agree that it helps with the mind muscle connection. It wasn’t until I started lifting lower weight to true failure that I really started to feel and be able to isolate parts of my back and my rear delts that I just wasn’t able to before.

[Gallowmere]

If you’re destroying yourself to the point where you literally can’t work out anymore for the week I would say that’s a bit too far haha. I think in general most people believe they’re failing when they’re not even close, and when I say not even close I mean you just did 10 reps and you can get 10 more without not being able to use that body part for a week. If you’re putting yourself into rhabdo than yes I agree - you’ve gone too far lol

Very true, but if you look at the typical “bro split” setup, they’re either not doing either, or doing exactly what you said. The fact that “leg day” and “chest day” is a thing leans toward the fact that they are only hitting these things once per week, whatever the reason may be.
So they either suck at gauging what failure is (and this is made worse by the pathetic weights used by many, as ‘failing’ with a 25+ rep weight and failing with a 5-8 are metabolically two VERY different things), and quit when the shit gets too painful, or they’re not able to recover from what they’re doing. You don’t have to go full rhabdomyolysis to be digging the hole deeper than is optimally productive.
The resurgence of the RIR/RPE system in modern training has been great to offset this, but only if it’s used properly, and total failure training is failing to use it properly.
My gauge for people is only useful in the presence of compound movements though. For me, your set ends at technical failure, which is the point where form breaks. This tells me that the weakest link in your chain is now exhausted, and compensatory measures have kicked in, therefore we are no longer hitting exactly what we’re aiming for. The only time this isn’t the case is obviously during competition, because if your competition squat/deadlift/whatever looks ‘perfect’, either you’re a rare freak of perfect balance, or we left weight on the table.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

One thing I want to point out is that a shorter person 5'3" can get away with a lot more than a taller person 6'3".

I do one rep maxes for squat and deadlift nearly every week, I get away with it at 5'3". I think if you're taller you'll injure yourself doing that every week.

I'd say females probably get away with 1 rep maxes a lot more too.

[Honkey_Kong]

......

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Here's something I've wondered about...

Let's say you're a powerlifter and you want to get your Wilk's score up. Can you switch to a bodybuilding diet and workout for 12 months, put on a load of useless superfluous muscle, and then switch back to powerlifting diet and workout to try make the new muscle useful?

[Mooseman33]

fluid- 1. please dont give workout advice, someone may take it seriously and set themselves back years.

2. start ur own thread with ur weird ass questions.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

fluid- 1. please dont give workout advice, someone may take it seriously and set themselves back years.

2. start ur own thread with ur weird ass questions.

I've been here for 12 years and you've been here for 15 years, and even though you've only been here 25% longer than I have, you have 223% more posts than me. So if one of us is spewing vacuous bullshit as a vertical screen filler, it's you.

You're also afflicted with hate.

[Mooseman33]

shit, i was banned for couple of those years also.

old days were great here, alot people talked daily. none of it has to do with u giving advice on lifting. u lie about ur steroid use, doubt u even really lift weights, so u should stay to the stuff u know, like weird shit.

there was no hate in my post.

now lets not derail this guys thread anymore. OP my apologies for the sidetrack.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

doubt u even really lift weights

So this must be my long lost twin (or doppelgänger?) squatting 100kg:

[Honkey_Kong]

I've been here for 12 years and you've been here for 15 years, and even though you've only been here 25% longer than I have, you have 223% more posts than me. So if one of us is spewing vacuous bullshit as a vertical screen filler, it's you.

You're also afflicted with hate.

Kimbo, you say you've been shooting a gram a week of tren for 10 years and your 1RM on your squat is 100kg. We all think you're full of schit, but true or not, you shouldn't be telling anyone how to workout or how to take steroids.

[David LoPan]

Kimbo, you say you've been shooting a gram a week of tren for 10 years and your 1RM on your squat is 100kg. We all think you're full of schit, but true or not, you shouldn't be telling anyone how to workout or how to take steroids.

And why is your squat about the same as your bench press? Having issues keeping your story straight there Kimbo?

[David LoPan]

I've been here for 12 years and you've been here for 15 years, and even though you've only been here 25% longer than I have, you have 223% more posts than me. So if one of us is spewing vacuous bullshit as a vertical screen filler, it's you.

You're also afflicted with hate.

There is a reason that he has RED Knowledgeable Member behind his name and you do not. He gives out quality advice unlike you.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

And why is your squat about the same as your bench press? Having issues keeping your story straight there Kimbo?

Flat bench personal best is 92.5 kg

Olympic squat personal best is 102.5 kg (Olympic squat means 'ass to grass' as you can see in my above video)

Do you reckon it's very atypical for a person's squat to be only 11% more than bench? I see from websearching that most people squat about 33% more than they bench.

So either my bench is unusually strong, or my squat is unusually weak. Either way I keep trying to increase my 1 rep max for each of them.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Kimbo, you say you've been shooting a gram a week of tren for 10 years and your 1RM on your squat is 100kg.

I did 1.2g Tren E per week for about a month or two and wound up in hospital with a liver injury. I've been on Tren on and off since then.

[Gallowmere]

And why is your squat about the same as your bench press? Having issues keeping your story straight there Kimbo?

I mean, to be fair, I know a few people in that boat.
They also have 550-600 lbs. benches though, so there’s that.

[David LoPan]

Flat bench personal best is 92.5 kg

Olympic squat personal best is 102.5 kg (Olympic squat means 'ass to grass' as you can see in my above video)

Do you reckon it's very atypical for a person's squat to be only 11% more than bench? I see from websearching that most people squat about 33% more than they bench.

So either my bench is unusually strong, or my squat is unusually weak. Either way I keep trying to increase my 1 rep max for each of them.

I did 1.2g Tren E per week for about a month or two and wound up in hospital with a liver injury. I've been on Tren on and off since then.

I call BS on running tren at 1.2 grams a week for a month or two and ended up in the hospital. This type of statement shows you have no clue what you are doing with AAS.

As far as your bench and squats both are very low for a person that has been training since 2009 and running as much gear as you say you say that you are. You should stop posting so much and spend time reading on how to train.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I mean, to be fair, I know a few people in that boat.
They also have 550-600 lbs. benches though, so there’s that.

So basically I'm a scaled down version of these elite athletes.

[Honkey_Kong]

So basically I'm a scaled down version of these elite athletes.

LOL I've heard it all now.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

LOL I've heard it all now.

Take a powerlifting world record holder, stick him in the machine from Honey I Shrunk The Kids, and I come out.

Pure unadulterated logic.

[teedoff]

Flat bench personal best is 92.5 kg

Olympic squat personal best is 102.5 kg (Olympic squat means 'ass to grass' as you can see in my above video)

Do you reckon it's very atypical for a person's squat to be only 11% more than bench? I see from websearching that most people squat about 33% more than they bench.

So either my bench is unusually strong, or my squat is unusually weak. Either way I keep trying to increase my 1 rep max for each of them.

Ok sorry after re reading this I have to weight in here. Your flat bench personal best is 202lbs? Nothing wrong with that for a guy that hasn't been training long, but you make statements that contradict that, saying you've been training awhile. AND you're on gear and still 204lbs?

And 220lbs squats? I'm 55 and just starting back in the gym and can do that easily. Sorry but somethings not jiving here.

[Gallowmere]

Take a powerlifting world record holder, stick him in the machine from Honey I Shrunk The Kids, and I come out.

Pure unadulterated logic.

Nah, pretty sure Lamar Gant comes out.
His best lifts on the platform in the 132 lbs. weight class:
Squat: 595 (615 recorded in training)
Bench: 352.5
Deadlift: 688
Dude was tiny as shit, and made even more impressive that he had scoliosis so severe that his fucking back looked like this:

[teedoff]

Took me years to discover that technique. Now, I see guys killing themselves with way too many warmups and then saying 'dang, I just did not have my target weight in me today'. Yeah, you did, you just burned up your energy "warming up" too much. Warm up, then get to work.

Yep I get all thst. And with my normal trainer we do all that. We mix things up weekly. Drop sets, circuit training. Just about anything. With her husband, all he wants to do is low weight high reps. He'll throw in some drop sets occasionally but it's still low weight. Like we'll do 30 rebs on the leg press with 4 plates, then he'll say do 15 more and start drop setting. Pulling one plate off for another 15 and so on.