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Thread: Second Cycle Help & Suggestions

  1. #1
    xStryker is offline New Member
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    Second Cycle Help & Suggestions

    Hi Guys,

    Quick update on my current stats before i get to the question, and i apologize if its too lengthy, i would like to be as detailed as possible;

    Age - 29
    Height - 5 ft 7 in
    Weight - 86 Kgs
    Bf - ~18%
    I was a obese kid who's been in an out of gyms since age 13, but been lifting "properly'' since age 18 when made my first proper transformation right as i discovered whey protein and fat loss pills

    So a good decade of training experience with the occasional fallout every once in a while, but i've been consistent for the most part.

    I can deadlift 3 x405lbs on most days (depends on my training plan) and Bench 10x225lbs -275lbs 1MR , Squat 10x 315lbs

    All above mentioned are my CURRENT 'natty' stats since coming out of PCT 9 Months ago. Also lifting stats are without any spotters.

    My first ever cycle was last year in May -
    - 500mg of Test-e for 16 weeks
    - Dbol 30mg for the first 4 weeks (this was not planned but taken on the advice of my dealer as he said the test will take a long time to kick in, which was true)
    - Proviron 75mgs daily for the last 4 weeks (had some of the hardest of hard-ons and probably the most vein-iest i've ever been in my life during this phase)
    - Letrozole (Took this during Week 1 and ended up bloating up like a balloon, and did not use it for the rest of the cycle, no other sides)
    - PCT was 4 weeks including clomid, nolva and HCG

    The goal of the above cycle was to break a plateau, which it did, and it was probably the best years of my life i would say, apart from gym performance , as i never felt so energetic, confident & motivated. I had ZERO side affects from the above cycle even after coming out of it (Except the occasional night sweats, and over sweating at gym, and pee smelling like the pee of a carnivorous animal for a period after each pin)

    10 months later, eventhough i dont have the same level of motivation or endurance at the gym, i do have about 80+ % of the strength, and most of the size (which wasn't much tbh) i gained during that cycle,

    So i'm Planning to start my 2nd cycle again in July;
    - 250mg Test-e x 16 weeks
    - 200mg Tren -e x Week 1 to 8
    - MK677 25MG ED
    - Letrozole in hand
    - Same PCT protocol as cycle 1

    I am a lifestyle lifter and not into competing or anything professional. The goal of this cycle is yet again to break plateau at the gym, along with trying to put on as much lean mass as possible while not having to count every grain of rice i eat for the worry of putting on fat. (I do count my Macros and calories to a certain extent)

    With all this factored, is my second cycle decent, or does it need any changes? or any other compounds suggested?

    Note - the brand of gear i'll be using is called Zendava. If this matters in any way?

    Sorry again for this long post, Thanks in Advance!.

  2. #2
    do_what_is_hard is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xStryker View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Quick update on my current stats before i get to the question, and i apologize if its too lengthy, i would like to be as detailed as possible;

    Age - 29
    Height - 5 ft 7 in
    Weight - 86 Kgs
    Bf - ~18%
    I was a obese kid who's been in an out of gyms since age 13, but been lifting "properly'' since age 18 when made my first proper transformation right as i discovered whey protein and fat loss pills

    So a good decade of training experience with the occasional fallout every once in a while, but i've been consistent for the most part.

    I can deadlift 3 x405lbs on most days (depends on my training plan) and Bench 10x225lbs -275lbs 1MR , Squat 10x 315lbs

    All above mentioned are my CURRENT 'natty' stats since coming out of PCT 9 Months ago. Also lifting stats are without any spotters.

    My first ever cycle was last year in May -
    - 500mg of Test-e for 16 weeks
    - Dbol 30mg for the first 4 weeks (this was not planned but taken on the advice of my dealer as he said the test will take a long time to kick in, which was true)
    - Proviron 75mgs daily for the last 4 weeks (had some of the hardest of hard-ons and probably the most vein-iest i've ever been in my life during this phase)
    - Letrozole (Took this during Week 1 and ended up bloating up like a balloon, and did not use it for the rest of the cycle, no other sides)
    - PCT was 4 weeks including clomid, nolva and HCG

    The goal of the above cycle was to break a plateau, which it did, and it was probably the best years of my life i would say, apart from gym performance , as i never felt so energetic, confident & motivated. I had ZERO side affects from the above cycle even after coming out of it (Except the occasional night sweats, and over sweating at gym, and pee smelling like the pee of a carnivorous animal for a period after each pin)

    10 months later, eventhough i dont have the same level of motivation or endurance at the gym, i do have about 80+ % of the strength, and most of the size (which wasn't much tbh) i gained during that cycle,

    So i'm Planning to start my 2nd cycle again in July;
    - 250mg Test-e x 16 weeks
    - 200mg Tren -e x Week 1 to 8
    - MK677 25MG ED
    - Letrozole in hand
    - Same PCT protocol as cycle 1

    I am a lifestyle lifter and not into competing or anything professional. The goal of this cycle is yet again to break plateau at the gym, along with trying to put on as much lean mass as possible while not having to count every grain of rice i eat for the worry of putting on fat. (I do count my Macros and calories to a certain extent)

    With all this factored, is my second cycle decent, or does it need any changes? or any other compounds suggested?

    Note - the brand of gear i'll be using is called Zendava. If this matters in any way?

    Sorry again for this long post, Thanks in Advance!.
    you should not use tren for your second cycle. You add tren when you have tried every other compound and still not surpassing plateaus. I would learn my body first have 4-5 successful cycles only then I will think about running tren. Tren is 5 times more powerful than test. It would take just 100mg of tren to yield the results of 500mg test.

  3. #3
    do_what_is_hard is offline Junior Member
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    tren is not for recreational bodybuilding or you can say you should not use tren to impress girls or guys in the gym. It is for pros. Moreover, you haven't added HCG or caber. Ask yourself is it really worth the risk to embark on such a powerful compound? First, you should learn how to manage things like your estrogen. Drop tren add things like masterone, primo or anadrol .
    I would not run tren until I have done 4-6 cycles.

  4. #4
    tinymuscles is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xStryker View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Quick update on my current stats before i get to the question, and i apologize if its too lengthy, i would like to be as detailed as possible;

    Age - 29
    Height - 5 ft 7 in
    Weight - 86 Kgs
    Bf - ~18%
    I was a obese kid who's been in an out of gyms since age 13, but been lifting "properly'' since age 18 when made my first proper transformation right as i discovered whey protein and fat loss pills

    So a good decade of training experience with the occasional fallout every once in a while, but i've been consistent for the most part.

    I can deadlift 3 x405lbs on most days (depends on my training plan) and Bench 10x225lbs -275lbs 1MR , Squat 10x 315lbs

    All above mentioned are my CURRENT 'natty' stats since coming out of PCT 9 Months ago. Also lifting stats are without any spotters.

    My first ever cycle was last year in May -
    - 500mg of Test-e for 16 weeks
    - Dbol 30mg for the first 4 weeks (this was not planned but taken on the advice of my dealer as he said the test will take a long time to kick in, which was true)
    - Proviron 75mgs daily for the last 4 weeks (had some of the hardest of hard-ons and probably the most vein-iest i've ever been in my life during this phase)
    - Letrozole (Took this during Week 1 and ended up bloating up like a balloon, and did not use it for the rest of the cycle, no other sides)
    - PCT was 4 weeks including clomid, nolva and HCG

    The goal of the above cycle was to break a plateau, which it did, and it was probably the best years of my life i would say, apart from gym performance , as i never felt so energetic, confident & motivated. I had ZERO side affects from the above cycle even after coming out of it (Except the occasional night sweats, and over sweating at gym, and pee smelling like the pee of a carnivorous animal for a period after each pin)

    10 months later, eventhough i dont have the same level of motivation or endurance at the gym, i do have about 80+ % of the strength, and most of the size (which wasn't much tbh) i gained during that cycle,

    So i'm Planning to start my 2nd cycle again in July;
    - 250mg Test-e x 16 weeks
    - 200mg Tren -e x Week 1 to 8
    - MK677 25MG ED
    - Letrozole in hand
    - Same PCT protocol as cycle 1

    I am a lifestyle lifter and not into competing or anything professional. The goal of this cycle is yet again to break plateau at the gym, along with trying to put on as much lean mass as possible while not having to count every grain of rice i eat for the worry of putting on fat. (I do count my Macros and calories to a certain extent)

    With all this factored, is my second cycle decent, or does it need any changes? or any other compounds suggested?

    Note - the brand of gear i'll be using is called Zendava. If this matters in any way?

    Sorry again for this long post, Thanks in Advance!.
    Stay far away from tren, need more experience before venturing into the dark side. here is a better suited cycle.

    Week 1-12 500mg test e
    week 1-4 anadrol 50mg
    week1-14 hcg 500iu
    week 14-18 clomid/nolva

  5. #5
    Cylon357's Avatar
    Cylon357 is online now Nice Guy Cy
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    It's definitely a better plan to use hcg on cycle and in the weeks leading up to pct. Yes, some people do use it during pct, and in some cases it might make sense, but not in yours, IMO.

    The bloat you got from letro (are you sure it was from that?) may be nothing compared to what you encounter with MK677. MK677 is a great compound but man, the bloat and hunger I get from it are unreal.

    Speaking of letro, maybe a less harsh AI would be in order, something like aromasin or maybe even DIIM. It is smart to keep one on hand, but letro is kind of stout. It also might be a better plan entirely to construct a cycle that doesn't require an AI, though that could interfere with your goals.

  6. #6
    tarmyg's Avatar
    tarmyg is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by do_what_is_hard View Post
    you should not use tren to impress girls or guys in the gym.
    Maybe so but it sure as foock works.

  7. #7
    rise_against is online now Junior Member
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    Why tren ? It seems unnecessary. I'm doing 500mg test and 40mg of anavar as my second cycle. Strength has been exploding on that, seriously added like 70 pounds to my bench in a month. Not sure what my squat and deadlift are but they are exploding too. I hit 500 and 615 prior to the cycle and have added 30-40 pounds to my working sets while leaning out
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  8. #8
    xStryker is offline New Member
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    so after some research, i am considering the following cycle

    Week 1 to 8 - 500mg Test-E /week

    Week 9 to 16 - 250mg Test-E /week
    200mg Tren -E /week
    Proviron 75mg ED
    Metformin 500mg ED (after a post workout carb meal, this is mainly to reset my insulin receptors)

    a PCT protocol that includes hcg , clomid and nolva.

    Thoughts on this?

  9. #9
    Honkey_Kong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xStryker View Post
    so after some research, i am considering the following cycle

    Week 1 to 8 - 500mg Test-E /week

    Week 9 to 16 - 250mg Test-E /week
    200mg Tren -E /week
    Proviron 75mg ED
    Metformin 500mg ED (after a post workout carb meal, this is mainly to reset my insulin receptors)

    a PCT protocol that includes hcg , clomid and nolva.

    Thoughts on this?
    I wouldn't use tren e for 7 weeks. If you're set on doing that, run tren ace.

  10. #10
    xStryker is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong View Post
    I wouldn't use tren e for 7 weeks. If you're set on doing that, run tren ace.
    Do you suggest i run Tren E for longer? like 12 weeks?

  11. #11
    Honkey_Kong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xStryker View Post
    Do you suggest i run Tren E for longer? like 12 weeks?
    I think you should run tren ace for that time period. Especially since you're already going to be 8 weeks shut down on test before you even start your tren (according to your second idea).

  12. #12
    Chark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by do_what_is_hard View Post
    Tren is 5 times more powerful than test. It would take just 100mg of tren to yield the results of 500mg test.
    The 5x thing is sort of a misconception that is true on paper, the androgenic /anabolic scale. The scale also says anavar is 3-6x more anabolic than testosterone . In reality, mg for mg, test is going to build more muscle.

  13. #13
    Chark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xStryker View Post
    so after some research, i am considering the following cycle

    Week 1 to 8 - 500mg Test-E /week

    Week 9 to 16 - 250mg Test-E /week
    200mg Tren -E /week
    Proviron 75mg ED
    Metformin 500mg ED (after a post workout carb meal, this is mainly to reset my insulin receptors)

    a PCT protocol that includes hcg , clomid and nolva.

    Thoughts on this?
    Using tren for 7 weeks especially on the back end of a 16 week cycle will probably be very difficult to recover from. I personally don't think I'd use 19-nors if I planned on coming off at the end of the cycle.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chark View Post
    Using tren for 7 weeks especially on the back end of a 16 week cycle will probably be very difficult to recover from. I personally don't think I'd use 19-nors if I planned on coming off at the end of the cycle.
    Would this apply even with low dose NPP or would that be OK to cycle with test? I'm not using anything but Test-E & DHT based AAS on this 1st cycle I am on but I'd like to try some additional oils with test on my 2nd cycle. NPP and Primo are on my interest list at the moment.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinAZ View Post
    Would this apply even with low dose NPP or would that be OK to cycle with test? I'm not using anything but Test-E & DHT based AAS on this 1st cycle I am on but I'd like to try some additional oils with test on my 2nd cycle. NPP and Primo are on my interest list at the moment.
    I'm not going to pretend like I know the exact answer for you so maybe someone more experienced will chime in but here's what I've gathered from MPMD: 19nors shut you down hard (tren especially) compared to other AAS and can keep you suppressed for a long time even on small doses where recommended PCT's like 2 weeks off 4 weeks drugs isn't going to touch the outlined cycle that's ending with tren. He'd probably still be suppressed for months after he ends his cycle. How long is dose dependent. I know MPMD has said it should be 5 half-lives before beginning PCT but I think there is some disagreement with that. I would ASSUME NPP wouldn't be as bad as traditional deca but I don't know. I think primo would be a much better choice for your 2nd cycle.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chark View Post
    I'm not going to pretend like I know the exact answer for you so maybe someone more experienced will chime in but here's what I've gathered from MPMD: 19nors shut you down hard (tren especially) compared to other AAS and can keep you suppressed for a long time even on small doses where recommended PCT's like 2 weeks off 4 weeks drugs isn't going to touch the outlined cycle that's ending with tren. He'd probably still be suppressed for months after he ends his cycle. How long is dose dependent. I know MPMD has said it should be 5 half-lives before beginning PCT but I think there is some disagreement with that. I would ASSUME NPP wouldn't be as bad as traditional deca but I don't know. I think primo would be a much better choice for your 2nd cycle.
    thx for the info I knew tren shut people down but I didn't know it applied to all 19nors so that is good to know. Makes me think I will stay away from them until the point I decide to do TRT or blast & cruise instead of cycle.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinAZ View Post
    thx for the info I knew tren shut people down but I didn't know it applied to all 19nors so that is good to know. Makes me think I will stay away from them until the point I decide to do TRT or blast & cruise instead of cycle.
    I think you've got the right idea

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chark View Post
    I'm not going to pretend like I know the exact answer for you so maybe someone more experienced will chime in but here's what I've gathered from MPMD: 19nors shut you down hard (tren especially) compared to other AAS and can keep you suppressed for a long time even on small doses where recommended PCT's like 2 weeks off 4 weeks drugs isn't going to touch the outlined cycle that's ending with tren. He'd probably still be suppressed for months after he ends his cycle. How long is dose dependent. I know MPMD has said it should be 5 half-lives before beginning PCT but I think there is some disagreement with that. I would ASSUME NPP wouldn't be as bad as traditional deca but I don't know. I think primo would be a much better choice for your 2nd cycle.
    Sound advice!
    If I could just add to your great explanation, trenbolone enanthate has a half life of 7-10 days but what many people do not make account for is the depot site dwell time.
    When you inject certain carrier oils they will take time to start to release the drug into the local blood vessels the depot is situated to.
    Then once in the blood the esters are cleaved gradually from the compound they are attached to, releasing the active compound where it can work on the receptors of cells, tissue, enzymes and other hormones.
    This can add a significant amount of time to that required for pct to commence and be effective.
    Some who use nandrolone with the decanoate Ester at the common 400-600mg dose range, regardless of the carrier oil used, would expect the nandrolone to be active for up to 56 to 84 days.
    With this knowledge you would be best to stick to short esters and also to drugs with quick release carrier oils.
    Last edited by Lethal Hamburger; 07-12-2021 at 08:25 PM.
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  19. #19
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    I run long esters exclusively and front load and have never had an issue. There’s certainly a time and place for short esters (tren specifically in case you need to bail from sides) but I definitely prefer long

    I also don’t like short esters pinning cycle and prefer to run my gear lower and longer

    To each his own…
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  20. #20
    Lethal Hamburger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah View Post
    I run long esters exclusively and front load and have never had an issue. There’s certainly a time and place for short esters (tren specifically in case you need to bail from sides) but I definitely prefer long

    I also don’t like short esters pinning cycle and prefer to run my gear lower and longer

    To each his own…
    The same as me. I am on trt however so have no need to be concerned about drug dwell times before pct.
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