Starting first cycle in a few weeks

Hi all, I am new to this. I came here with the intentions of starting TRT, but with the levels based on my bw I decided to just run a 10 weeks cycle instead. Since my bf% is a little high around 17-20 percent, I am going to start with a month of:

cjc1295/ipamorelin 6mg/12mg
TTA

Then :
10 week cycle
Test Cyp 400mg
Kisspeptin-10
Exemestane 25mg on hand, not administered until symptoms of high estrogen
HCG on hand in case kisspeptin doesn't work. 250iU twice per week.

PCT 18 days after last Test injection
Clomid - 50/50/25/25
Nolva - 20/20/10/10

Does this look good? Would 400mg for ten weeks be more beneficial than 300mg for 12 weeks? How much exemestane is typically needed for these dosages of Test, if symptoms were to show?

Supplements would include :
Creatine
Protein
Vitamin C&D
Fishoil
AAKG
L-carnitine/L-tartrate
Fortify Joint Supplement

400 test is nothing for use steroid

I am not sure if the cjc/ipa is dac or not. I have not received it yet. I would think it isn't dac.

TTA - Tetradecylthioacetic Acid.

Thanks for the A.I. conversion estimates. In ronnies "You'll want to read this" thread, he mentions .025 adex = 12.5 aromasin was this a typo and he meant .25mg adex = 12.5mg aromasin?

I have been looking into Ronnie's ideas of a 20 week cycle(8week reload /2 week deload x 2) is this still ideal or has the general consensus changed over the years?

I meant the member on here Ronnie Rowland.

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...want-read.html

He advocates for a 20 week cycle. Saying that a 10 week will lead to disappointing results.

I guess what I'm asking is, is there any significant amount of risk added to the possibility of HPTA non recovery if I was to do a 20 week cycle as opposed to a 10 week?

If this risk is minimal, then I'll opt for this plan instead.

20 week cycle

1-8 500mg Test C,
9-10 250mg Test C, Epicatechtin supplement for myostatin reduction
11-16 500mg Test E, 25mg dbol/day
17-18 750mg Test E, 25mg dbol/day
19-20 250mg Test E, Epicatechtin supplement
1-20 HCG 250iu/twice a week
If symptoms show, start exemestane at 6.25mg twice a week. Adjust accordingly

PCT
21-22 Kisspeptin-10 /every 3 days
23-26 Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 20/20/10/10

spot on cylon.

OP listen to the above post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cylon357

The longer you are on the greater the chance of non recovery.

I think you should take a step back and ask yourself what you really want to do. IIRC, you started off with going on TRT when your natural numbers were GREAT. Then, since you didn't want to 'waste the kit' you bought, you reconsidered to just doing a 10 week cycle. Now, you are thinking 20 weeks.

What do you want to do, man?

Seriously, ask yourself that question. What am I trying to do? And in particular, when designing a cycle, ask yourself 'what do each of these compounds do for ME?' If you can't answer that question soundly, maybe it shouldn't be there.

If you decide you want to cycle, stick to Austinite's sticky as your basis.

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Yes, you're right... I was going to start with TRT, that was before I realized the possible permanent shut down of HPTA. Since then I've been researching. I see people say that that you can gain more on your first cycle(if you do it right) than any subsequent cycle. So I am wanting to make the most of it. I was only considering a 10 cycle at first as the risk of permanent HPTA shutdown is a concern. But I haven't seen anyone say that a 20 is profoundly more of a risk than a 10 week.

I came across Ronnie Rowlands thread. With the experience and time he has with dealing with this, he maintains that a 20 week cycle is the most beneficial. So I wanted to see what the general consensus is on these ideas. He believes that after 8 weeks, myostatin levels in the muscles build up to a point where muscles stop responding. So to keep dosing with the same amount of AAS at that point is a waste of the gear and one's time. So one should decrease their AAS dose for 2 weeks to lower the levels, so the muscles keep responding to the AAS. Hence the half dose at weeks 9-10. I added the Epicatechtin in there because this is shown to also lower myostatin levels in studies. Helping the process of why you deload the amount of AAS during those two weeks. Then when you reload, after the deload, in order for muscle to have the best response to the AAS, one should increase the dose even more. Which is why I added dbol, and upped the dose of Test in weeks 17-18. To have a constant increasing of dose, to maximize muscle response until the point of myostatin overload(8 weeks) which leads to diminishing gains.

Throughout the thread people that have done cycles have been reporting that they noticed their gains stopping around 8 weeks in. Backing up the ideas for this 20 week cycle. I wanted to see what the current general consensus is on these thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amindzeye

Yes, you're right... I was going to start with TRT, that was before I realized the possible permanent shut down of HPTA. Since then I've been researching. I see people say that that you can gain more on your first cycle(if you do it right) than any subsequent cycle. So I am wanting to make the most of it. I was only considering a 10 cycle at first as the risk of permanent HPTA shutdown is a concern. But I haven't seen anyone say that a 20 is profoundly more of a risk than a 10 week.

I came across Ronnie Rowlands thread. With the experience and time he has with dealing with this, he maintains that a 20 week cycle is the most beneficial. So I wanted to see what the general consensus is on these ideas. He believes that after 8 weeks, myostatin levels in the muscles build up to a point where muscles stop responding. So to keep dosing with the same amount of AAS at that point is a waste of the gear and one's time. So one should decrease their AAS dose for 2 weeks to lower the levels, so the muscles keep responding to the AAS. Hence the half dose at weeks 9-10. I added the Epicatechtin in there because this is shown to also lower myostatin levels in studies. Helping the process of why you deload the amount of AAS during those two weeks. Then when you reload, after the deload, in order for muscle to have the best response to the AAS, one should increase the dose even more. Which is why I added dbol, and upped the dose of Test in weeks 17-18. To have a constant increasing of dose, to maximize muscle response until the point of myostatin overload(8 weeks) which leads to diminishing gains.

Throughout the thread people that have done cycles have been reporting that they noticed their gains stopping around 8 weeks in. Backing up the ideas for this 20 week cycle. I wanted to see what the current general consensus is on these thoughts.

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If you want to do something, you can find evidence on the internet to support it. There is so much information some good, some bad, and some just better suited for other people. If you are going to do a 20 week cycle you could shut down your natural test and it could take much longer to come back with more chance of it not coming back. You will get better gains on cycle than off cycle, but of course there can still be plateaus so I wouldn't really worry about gains stopping.

To me, the idea of bumping a 10 week cycle to a 20 week cycle because some people on the internet noticed their gains stopping at week 8/10, is crazy. You have to live with your body not them. You can always run another cycle down the road after PCT you don't have to meet your lifetime fitness goals from a single cycle. Trying to do that could lead to disappointment and also health problems.

I'm no PED expert but I'd say to start with moderation with any new substance. There is tons of info online about hypogonadism from too much or too long of a cycle and if you haven't seen anyone say it then you just aren't looking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DinAZ

To me, the idea of bumping a 10 week cycle to a 20 week cycle because some people on the internet noticed their gains stopping at week 8/10, is crazy. You have to live with your body not them. You can always run another cycle down the road after PCT you don't have to meet your lifetime fitness goals from a single cycle. Trying to do that could lead to disappointment and also health problems. .

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I'm not bumping it based on peoples anecdotal claims of diminishing gains after 8 weeks. That just supports the ideals of a highly regarded member/trainer on here with 30+ years of experience saying that there is not much of a higher risk of a 20 week vs 10 week cycle. With much better results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amindzeye

I'm not bumping it based on peoples anecdotal claims of diminishing gains after 8 weeks. That just supports the ideals of a highly regarded member/trainer on here with 30+ years of experience saying that there is not much of a higher risk of a 20 week vs 10 week cycle. With much better results.

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Everyone is in a different situation. Someone who is a hardcore bodybuilder might already have their natural test shutdown so it may not have the same implication on them but if it is your 1st cycle your natural test production is not shutdown yet. Like I said, I am no expert, but I would think he is referring to the health risks like stroke, heart attack, etc. not being much higher but as far as hypogonadism larger doses and longer cycles will shut you down more than a smaller dose or a smaller cycle. As Cyclon said "The longer you are on the greater the chance of non recovery", there are studies that support this.

It is your body so it is ultimately your choice. I might try TRT someday but in the meantime I am running 300mg test a week to give myself a little boost getting into shape. After the cycle I will PCT, take some recovery time, do labs, and then reevaluate my goals and supplement/PED plans. I will decide to either cycle again, do TRT, or stay natural for a while. One cycle isn't going to make me reach my lifetime fitness goals no matter what so I figure better to start simple. I can always do more down the road but I can't uninject something. I personally don't want to shut my T production down permanently if I can help it so I prefer baby steps, but only you can decide what your goals are and what risks you are willing to take to get there.

Have you tried the ipamorelin before? I am curious about it along with BPC-157. Never tried peptides before but I am looking into adding them to my regimen.

From what I gather, he is stating that of course everyone is different. But 20 weeks vs. 10 weeks is not going to matter much for the individual. If my HPTA was to not recover from a 20 week cycle, that it probably wouldn't recover from a 10 either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DinAZ

Have you tried the ipamorelin before? I am curious about it along with BPC-157. Never tried peptides before but I am looking into adding them to my regimen.

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No I haven't. From what I see it's best to combine ipamorelin with cjc1295, as they have a synergistic effect.

Being that the standard accepted model is still 12 weeks, and not 20, it must not be sound advice. I've decided to just do the standard 12 weeks instead of having a lingering thought in the back of my mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amindzeye

Being that the standard accepted model is still 12 weeks, and not 20, it must not be sound advice. I've decided to just do the standard 12 weeks instead of having a lingering thought in the back of my mind.

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I think that is a good call, you can always run another cycle after this 1.

Yeah that's the thought. Which, I most likely will.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amindzeye

Yeah that's the thought. Which, I most likely will.

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Scrap your whole entire plan and stick with the first cycle plan sticky on the forums. You won’t go wrong there. Currently halfway through that one and i’m up 20lb

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Originally Posted by tinymuscles

Scrap your whole entire plan and stick with the first cycle plan sticky on the forums. You won’t go wrong there. Currently halfway through that one and i’m up 20lb

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Yeah that's what I am going to do. I went back and forth not expecting to. Before I found the site, I was just going to just dip my toes in the water with TRT. Once I seen that it's pointless to do that due to hpta shutdown anyways, I found the other thread and decided to just cannon ball in the water. But since that's not the common way, it must not be good advice to follow, so just to play it safe, it will be the standard model in the sticky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amindzeye

Yeah that's what I am going to do. I went back and forth not expecting to. Before I found the site, I was just going to just dip my toes in the water with TRT. Once I seen that it's pointless to do that due to hpta shutdown anyways, I found the other thread and decided to just cannon ball in the water. But since that's not the common way, it must not be good advice to follow, so just to play it safe, it will be the standard model in the sticky.

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Keep in mind, I assume you’re pretty young, your hpta will most likely rebound. It becomes more unlikely to rebound the more times you abuse steroids and the quantity you put in your body. Do it properly and by the book and you should come out with some beautiful gains and have a great pct. I did the same thing as you searching up a million scary posts before I did my cycle. But at the end of the day millions of people do steroids, even tons of people I know. Like I said it’s rare for that to happen and it can happen in certain circumstances

If you consider early 30s young. The goal is to come out like either chark or ironliver. I doubt I'll see those results though haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinymuscles

Scrap your whole entire plan and stick with the first cycle plan sticky on the forums. You won’t go wrong there. Currently halfway through that one and i’m up 20lb

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That's incredible result for the beginners cycle! I will be starting the same cycle soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amindzeye

If you consider early 30s young. The goal is to come out like either chark or ironliver. I doubt I'll see those results though haha.

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Good luck brother, you never know! My 1st cycle too was early 30s. All those years accumulating diet/training tidbits prior really helped me hit the ground running. Stick to the basics. Eat well, train hard and heavy, and get your 8 hours. Stick to the main lifts, don't get too cute, center those workouts around the OG compound movements. I hope to see you log your cycle!