New Member
44 year old with plenty of successful cycles under my belt. Currently running 280mgs of tes prop and 210 of tren ace a week with 1mg of adex 3 times a week. Total test is at 1046, estro at 35, but my free test is at 377. Does anyone know what would cause this? The only thing im doing different is injecting everyday with an insulin pin in my quads and delts. Thanks in advance for help.
AR-Elite Hall of Famer
Feeling well overall, ya? What happens if adex was cut back dramatically, dosing .25mg?
Might be worth securing a more comprehensive blood test panel next round, follow up panels include:- Testosterone, Free, Equilibrium Ultrafiltration With Total Testosterone, LC/MS
- Sex hormone binding globulin
- Estradiol (Ultra sensitive- LC/MS assay)
Knowledgeable Member
Would guess your SHBG is low and your body is doing a good job of utilizing the higher baseline. It’s a good thing in my opinion. Free test scores are better indicators than total, you can have all test in the world but if it’s not unbound then it’s worthless. Are you taking any proviron or mast by chance? As mentioned the Adex could be skewing the numbers as well (that’s a shit ton of adex. Gyno prone?) as well as your injection frequency
What was the cutoff for “normal” for free test scores?
Agreed on a more comprehensive panel but certainly nothing to be alarmed over.
What’s your concern on your last labs?
AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
...and when was your last injection in relation to your blood draw date for the labs?
As Vette and S&D mentioned above, that is a high dosage on the anastrozole/a'dex
There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.
New Member
Thank you for the reply. Yes I am taking Proviron (one tab a day) My concern is that Im constantly tired and my sex drive isnt really there. Normally tes/tren make me wana bone everything that walks by. I honestly thought my estrogen was going to be high. After doing some research and talking with friends Im hearing a lot about adex messing up all my lab numbers, and I should cut the dose to half. Im confused becuase my estro. is in normal range with this dose of adex? Last year did the same cycle without adex and my estro shot through the roof so i added it this year. No gyno issues in he past or currently. Also I shouldnt be concerned about high free tes? Ive awlays thought thats the test your body isnt using?
Last edited by rvannjr; 08-03-2022 at 10:16 AM. Reason: extra question
New Member
Feeling a lil tired and not much of a sex drive. But what Im finding out is that Im taking too much adex. But that confuses me becuase my estro is in range?
Knowledgeable Member
The proviron is why your free test is so high, guaranteed. You left an important part of the story outOriginally Posted by rvannjr
You could bump it to 50 mgs a day and see if that helps libido. If you have no history of gyno, you could lower the adex considerably as the proviron is helping to mitigate estrogen as well and enhance your sexual functioning. Your estrogen may be TOO low. I run about 90 on my labs on cycle without an AI and thats my sweet spot. You want elevated estrogen value, it’s all about finding what line works for you but the libido may be due to the suppression of it with the adex (or as a side of the drug it self). You’re smart to be taking the proviron but may want to double it (25 mg tabs I assume).
You’re in your 40’s, right? What worked in our 20’s and 30’s isn’t going to always hold up either, trust me on that. We have to audible sometimes as we age but you’re in a much netter position of knowing your body.
Free test is the testosterone that your body frees up to work with. You can have elevated total test but if you have high SHBG, it binds that testosterone up and inhibits the body from using it. Free is just that…it’s “free” to be used. Free test is a much better indicator than total. SHBG acts like a glue that binds to the testosterone molecule and keeps it from being utilized. Proviron is great for keeping SHBG in check and allowing free to roam wild
That is absolutely why your free score looks like it does.
I would drop the adex entirely and try adding on some masteron instead. Slightly anabolic, sheds water and alongside proviron is way more then enough for my estrogen. I’ve NEVER had to run an AI but having no clue of your genetic profile, take it with a grain of salt. People take AI’s as a prophylactic, when really they should incorporate it when symptoms and labs necessitate it.
Food for thought. Most importantly just know free test is a GOOD thing
New Member
Man, you are 100% correct with the age thing. It defiantly is different the last few cycles and it was so much easier in my 30s. Ive made huge strides in getting rid of my "ego lifting" that had for 20 plus years lol. A lot more stretching and warm up sets and less weight, now its time to figure out how and why these hormones treat me differently in my 40s. I also need to do some research on SHBG . Sounds like the adex is the problem and I really appreciate your reply and info.
Knowledgeable Member
A lot of us “vets” know all too well brother. I wish I could tell you it gets easier…I’m 48 and it’s tougher every year. It’s a hard thing but I’ve found eating humble pie ain’t so bad and I’m still bigger and stronger than 99.9% of the 20 something’s in my gym. I also don’t suffer from “invisible lat syndrome” or feel the need to air drum in front of the mirror or slam my weights to the ground after every set. There’s an upside of getting older too.
You know the story of the old bull and the young bull, right?
(Then there’s Charger, he’s just a freak of nature)
Could be the lab too and when you play with UGL’s it’s not like the FDA is screening each batch. Their concentrations fluctuate and not all live up to what their label states. Honestly though, your numbers aren’t too far out of line with your dosages…as a few mentioned, when you did your blood draw and your injection timing can alter the numbers and Tren is also suppressing, so your total test can be affected and look lower. I’d be happy with that number honestly with that dosage. How’s the strength and the physique? Any changes? What week are you on?
Your free test score is great, leave that be. Your total is lower but not that low considering you’re running a 19nor alongside and again could just be an injection vs blood draw timing issue. Your free test is great and a testament to the proviron. Your estrogen is in range but it may be too low compared to previous cycles, estrogen is key for sexual functioning. Maybe your used to it being higher and at range feels like you’re symptomatic? Food for thought.
If it was me, I’d up there Tren, add another 25 mgs of proviron and try running without any adex at all for a week or two. I’d also consider thinking long and hard about adding in some mast prop given you’re running fast acting esters…
Best of luck
Superbowl XLIX Champs!
It's not the proviron that's making you tired. It's likely the tren. I can't sleep very well on it, so I abuse the shit out of benedryl just to get enough rest. And then I'm groggy for a good portion of the day. It's one of the things about tren you deal with. But yeah, I'd up my dose like S&D said. I think if you lower your arimidex dose (and at the doses you're taking and frequency of your pinning I don't think you even need) and increase your proviron dose, your sex drive will get back up there. Also have some Viagra or Cialis on hand.
Knowledgeable Member
fucking love it.A lot of us “vets” know all too well brother. I wish I could tell you it gets easier…I’m 48 and it’s tougher every year. It’s a hard thing but I’ve found eating humble pie ain’t so bad and I’m still bigger and stronger than 99.9% of the 20 something’s in my gym. I also don’t suffer from “invisible lat syndrome” or feel the need to air drum in front of the mirror or slam my weights to the ground after every set. There’s an upside of getting older too.
You know the story of the old bull and the young bull, right?
(Then there’s Charger, he’s just a freak of nature
Could be the lab too and when you play with UGL’s it’s not like the FDA is screening each batch. Their concentrations fluctuate and not all live up to what their label states. Honestly though, your numbers aren’t too far out of line with your dosages…as a few mentioned, when you did your blood draw and your injection timing can alter the numbers and Tren is also suppressing, so your total test can be affected and look lower. I’d be happy with that number honestly with that dosage. How’s the strength and the physique? Any changes? What week are you on?
Your free test score is great, leave that be. Your total is lower but not that low considering you’re running a 19nor alongside and again could just be an injection vs blood draw timing issue. Your free test is great and a testament to the proviron. Your estrogen is in range but it may be too low compared to previous cycles, estrogen is key for sexual functioning. Maybe your used to it being higher and at range feels like you’re symptomatic? Food for thought.
If it was me, I’d up there Tren, add another 25 mgs of proviron and try running without any adex at all for a week or two. I’d also consider thinking long and hard about adding in some mast prop given you’re running fast acting esters…
Best of luck
~Elite AR-Hall of Famer~
That is a strange number for free: "377". Free T is given in ng/dL and should have a ref range 2-14 ng/dL. It can also be listed as a percentage with ref range ~1.45-3.21%. You simply can't have free T at 377 ng/dL with total at 1046 ng/dL. That being said free T will basically always be higher with exogenous use. Even legit TRT doses give free T %'s much higher than expected given the same total level. This has to do with less SHBG and albumin being made.
Knowledgeable Member
My latest blood work had free test in pg/ml with a range of 33.0 to 155.0. I'm sure there is a conversion (maybe 10x?), but my free t blood work normally comes back with the pg/mL numbers
Knowledgeable Member
His free test is roughly 30% of his total test…my last lab my free test was almost 46% of my total test so k don’t doubt his numbers
~Elite AR-Hall of Famer~
Well perhaps something is deficient in the lab work with regard to testosterone specificity and/or trenbolone is really screwing things up. Normal males have about 2% free T and he said he has T at 1046 ng/dL which is higher than normal but not insane higher and makes sense with 280mg test prop since that is probably double what he needs for TRT.
Yes, it probably is pg/mL which puts him about double over normal range.
Knowledgeable Member
My guess is it’s a combination of both. Makes me wonder if Nor19’s aren’t as suppressive to freed test as they are to bound? Maybe a correlation there because the lab of mine I quoted was run with Tren on board as well.
I also know that there’s definitely limits on specificity, actually learned that the hard way with Quest…when I ordered the more comprehensive testosterone panel, they didn’t test the values after 3500. With their entry level male hormone panel, they’ll continue to quantify it well past 3500. I had one that landed around 4800 on a basic hormone screen and when I tried the “full Monty” the labs stopped at 3500 (no value I going higher) so definitely to your point and who knows what testing method is being used
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote