I see so much conflicting information. Should HCG be used on cycle for people that cycle off, PCT and return to natural production?
Or should it be taken post cycle? Or does it depend on the cycle design?
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I see so much conflicting information. Should HCG be used on cycle for people that cycle off, PCT and return to natural production?
Or should it be taken post cycle? Or does it depend on the cycle design?
Theres a good article on hcg on here at the trt sub.
But personally I would use it during .I like my nuts to match my cock.
Medium size.
:aaGreen22Quote:
Originally Posted by wellshii
No hcg for me…I like to look like I chewed up an entire pack of hubba bubba and shoved it between my legs.
Also, mines not really long, but it’s really skinny
This horse is surely dead by now
Amen, brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz
Thanks this is helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz
If you had read all the sticky threads (the ones in bold at the top of the page…) you would have your answer. Maybe instead of making up usernames and trolling you should actually put some effort in and read.Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
hcg is good anytime..
kisspeptin..
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
Straight talk time.Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
OP, posts like this rub people the wrong way. What you sound like is:
"WAHHHH!!! SOMEBODY DO EVERYTHING FOR ME!!."
In other words, you sound like a spoiled brat. That might not be your intent and you probably didn't mean it like that, but that is how it sounds.
Nobody has time for that. The info you seek is quite readily available here.
Do some reading, think about your ask BEFORE asking, respect others here and you will get respect back.
PS - Spoiler alert: you will find conflicting info on the proper use of HCG. You can use the references on this site to get the basics of the science involved, and come to your own conclusion.
Thanks for the advice. I’ll return the favor and offer you some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz
If you don’t like a topic don’t even click into it. I put a very descriptive title. It’s no skin off your balls just move on.
I have read several of the stickies and articles. Read the one on HCG. They are great but they are after all one person’s opinion.
Not sure if you remember when you started, but this shit is pretty complex and take a while and some repetition to learn.
Even after reading the articles I continue to run into conflicting information. People come to forums for conversation and help. Usually the knowledgeable members like giving feedback because they enjoy the topic.
And finally; you guys like to rip people for not doing research, yet you get pissed when someone comes to the community for information. Pick one.
This is exactly why forums are dying and I left Florida Sportman years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
If asking a legit question makes me sound like a crying brat I think you might have a perception issue.
When you learn, you read, discuss, get feedback form mentors. If you guys don’t have time for that, why even be on here ?
See, that is where you are simply mistaken. You asked a question that has been asked and answered many, many times before. A simple perusal of the site would have given you all the info you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
Had you asked something "legit" like: "which Test to Tren ratio works for you?" or "Will 50mg of Anavar show up on my DHT blood work?", then you would have received much better response and not seemed entitled. Also, this type of question is the answer to "why even be on here?"
Maybe this is just a bump in the road and you will go on to enjoy your time here, but maybe not. Either way, all forums have their own pulse and vibe, some are good fits, others are not.
Bro, the hcg questions had been on top of the Q&A in one facet of another for the last month. It’s been discussed at nauseam. It’s certainly not an end all he all, not even close. Either way won’t make or break your cycle. Try it with or without. Do some testing, report on your findings. You’re over thinking it in a huge way. All good.
Can only ask an iteration of the same question so many times. It’s all here, YOU get to decide.
Godspeed
There is debate on whether HCG is even necessary during TRT (which is indefinitely). There’s debate in the medical community. As far as a 12-16 week cycle there certainly isn’t a definitive. That’s why you’re going to get anecdotal advice and debatable evidence supporting for or against. It’s less of an issue during a cycle as opposed to a lifetime of TRT and especially when fertility is an issue. There are downsides of hcg as well and even users who are on a lifetime of hcg are encouraged to take time off. Bottom line is, it’s not clear cut. Not even close. There are yays and nays…
You have to decide for yourself and be willing to be your own Guinea pig. Everyone reacts differently and you’re in charge of determining whether it’s worth it or not. But bro, this particular topic had really been asked a ton and as Cuz pointed out, beaten to death. So if some dudes get frustrated, it’s because we’ve been saying the same shit for a long time and dudes comes and go around here and half the time it’s some fucking joker anyways. Just be cognizant of that and know that the bros that are here help out all the time, we see too much bullshit. I’m pretty sure you’ve generated a lot of responses to your questions and people have been trying to help. Most old timers don’t even come around the Q&A because there’s so much trolling and dipshittery, so have to appreciate the ones who are trying to lend a hand. May not be the answers you want but don’t take anything personally, it’s a bunch of mother fuckers on hormones, not guys trading quilting tips or cupcake recipes. Just sayin’
https://themenshealthclinic.co.uk/th...-hcg-with-trt/
Thank you I appreciate it. My first cycle of 500mg test E (dosage corrected from previous post after research) and 40mg Var did not cause any sides without HCG until post cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah
So going to try it your way without HCG on cycle (contrary to the Bible of research in the stickies).
Appreciate the feedback.
Ive never ran hcg. Ive juiced on and off for 17 years trt’d for the last 7. I have had 2 kids, im done. I dont care how my ballsack looks.
If you care how it looks, spend the money if not then dont run it. Hcg isnt going to do anything for you worthwhile in my humble opinion. You need harden up a little , we aren’t a bunch of computer nerds sitting around sippin starbucks…this is a hardcore bodybuilding forum it may not be for you. Not for softies bro, man up. With all due respect and good luck on your cycle
10-4 roger that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah
Lol at not for softies. I have a pretty thick skin, that's why I'm not afraid to say what's on my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz
I am a beginning 195 pounds and I'm sure I will gain confidence and knowledge when I hopefully look more like you guys one day.
I could give a shit less about the aesthetics of my sack, I'm just not wanting to shut down my system permanently and go on a lifetime of TRT...yet. My pre cycle total test was 827 at 43 yo so I'm thinking ride the on/off cycles for a while until I learn more.
Thanks for the feedback and no hard feelings I know you guys are a bunch of jacked up warriors. lol
BTW, I think it was you that told me not to take AI on cycle unless I got some sides. Cycle is 500mg test e 250 2x per week plus 10mg of Dbol working up to 20mg. I'm going to take that advice and see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
Like Cuz said, it’s the aesthetics and the fertility part that are most important. I had both of my kids on cycle with NO hcg on board ever. Once I went the scripted route my doc added hcg for me and I didn’t get anything out of it, except spending more money and having to refrigerate that shit and trying to travel with it, it was a pain.
Your natural test scores are great and I think using on cycle certainly isn’t going to hurt, but I’d be much more concerned with my PCT plan and monitoring my bloodwork along the way to make sure I get back. At 43, you’re playing with fire a little bit but you’re a grown man and get to make that decision. Lots of factors in recovery including things beyond our control (genetics). I recovered just fine a few times, I just hated the way clomid made me feel and didn’t keep my gains like I wanted to until I switched to TRT.
I got off of that emotional roller coaster and maintained stable blood work without having to ride the PCT wave. You’re on that edge from an age perspective so just one more thing to be mindful of.
We really do embrace this lifestyle and like Cuz said, we take this shit seriously but beyond the ball busting we pride ourselves in being welcoming…we all just have our way of doing things and tough love ain’t the worst thing. Also need to remember all of the fly by night fuck tards that come through here each week. We’ve been here a long time and see this shit a lot and dudes coming and going, if we come across as a bit jaded, that’s why. A lot of the smartest dudes here rarely even visit this section because it’s become a troll haven.
We do pride ourselves on our knowledge and get frustrated when guys ask a question and then argue and ignore it…try a decade or longer of that shit and you’ll be right there too. We aren’t “kids” either, we walk the walk and talk the talk and have all earned our stripes and been flamed along the way. I can’t even tell you how much shit I’ve learned here over the last 14 years.
I suffered a massive injury that laid me up for a long time and was the skinniest, weakest and most depressed I’ve ever been. I stuck around and read everything….lifting, diet, Q&A and over the years I then switched to TRT at 40 and have never looked back or had a better physique. I’m nit interested in competing but I just wanted to be strong and set goals for myself in the strength and weight department and I can proudly say, I’ve smashed them all. This page was instrumental and my health has never suffered. I’m 2020, I was diagnosed with cancer and it was all stripped away again and along with the support, brotherhood and knowledge here, I successfully battled back again.
These days I’m a grown ass man with a family, career and responsibilities, but I will always feel indebted to this place, which is why I stick around and deal with the nonsense, I also pride myself on being part of this community with so many brothers that are always there for advice or to help out with shit that goes beyond just this lifestyle. Hopefully the pride and commitment to this community resonates in my words. The vets here are some of the best dudes out there and I talk with multiple fellas beyond just what happens within the walls of these threads.
If you’re serious about it, then you’re in the right spot. Just put in the work, give respect where it’s due and you’ll be pleasantly surprised with what you’ll learn along your journey.
Best
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
Any idea if you’re sensitive to estrogen or gyno prone? Chubby kid? Any issues with estrogen related sides previously? I wouldn’t take an AI unless I was symptomatic, that’s just me. I’ve never ever needed one but we’re all very different. I’d have it on hand but estrogen is so overlooked and it’s a crucial hormo, no point in smashing it unnecessarily.
That said, Dbol is very estrogenic so be extra mindful while you’re on it, that’s a pretty low dose so I’m sure you’ll be fine if you don’t have a history. This is why monitoring your bloodwork and being mindful of your symptoms is vital.
Why not just run straight test again? Either way, it’s a pretty standard cycle. Have the AI on hand, but also have nolvadex on hand too prior to starting. KNOW the difference between an AI and a SERM. That shit you need to know in case estrogen issues arise
Thank you for this. I have a lot in common with you. I also don't want to compete but really want better size and physique. Always have. I'm going to stick around too and keep learning.Quote:
Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah
Been extremely skinny and lean my whole life. Do not retain water at all. Never had gyno or any kind of sides like that (or at all really). Not even acne.Quote:
Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah
I am right now just taking 10mg Dbol preworkout sublingually. I researched it and there is some evidence that at a minimum sublingual preworkout dosing can give you a strength boost for the workout, and might be easier on the liver.
I ran 250 mg of test E this week, Week 1, just to kick things off. Prolly gonna do 500 mg next week and eventually up the Dbol to 20mg.
I did some research and know that both Test E and Dbol are Test Bases and thus have a lot of potential for creating too much E2 if abused.
I've always wanted to try Dbol. I actually bought this bottle like 5 years ago! Never tried it. Didn't know anything about it. I have some fresher bottles in stock also but I'm trying this old one to experiment with its strength after these years.
I do understand the frustrations from community members. The Internet has become a load of bullshit in a lot of places. I assure you that I'm not a troll and very much a teachable newcomer. I don't know shit!
This is a cool world of stuff to learn about. I want to do some more research on TRT and see what that would be like, considering my age as you mentioned.
Dbol as a test base is a popular thought right now, just be aware that it is not accurate. Yes, dbol does convert heavily to estrogen, which is one of the things we like test for, but dbol suppresses natural test production without replacing it. In that case, people end up in a way estrogen dominant scenario which is bad juju. Dbol also brings nothing in the way of androgens, something that is often overlooked in cycle design.Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
In other words, people that run dbol only cycles are heading for trouble. I'm not saying that is what you were suggesting, just pointing out that dbol as a test base is a bit overstated in current popular thinking, IMO.
Whoever said dbol was a test substitute should be shot..in the dick. Lol godamn
Lot of redditors seem to think running SARMS with a "test base like dbol" is a good idea. I can't even.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz
OP, none of this is directed at you, I just wanted to comment on the questionable nature of dbol (or any aas not named "testosterone") as a test base. You MIGHT be able to use 4andro (a prohormone, gasp!) as a test base, but why bother with how readily available good test is?
Thank you I didn’t take it that way. I didn’t mean test base. What I have read is 3 main pillars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
DHT derived substances (eg Var), test derived substances eg Dbol, and 19NORs eg Tren.
So what I was actually saying is that some people criticize Dbol/Test cycles since both are test derivatives.
Opting instead for test plus something from one of the other pillars, or of course test alone.
Of course I don’t know shit. Learned this from Derek on MPMD seems to know his shit.
Idk why TF I want to do Dbol but I do. I’m sure all of us have wanted to experiment on ourselves with certain compounds.
No I would never run an oral only cycle.
There is nothing inherently wrong with dbol or wanting to run it. It is an awesome compound for what it does. Test and dbol is a bread and butter stack for size. Yes, most of what you get from dbol alone is water and goes away pretty quick. But, the other thing dbol brings is crazy strength, which allows us to push past our normal loads and build muscle as a result of the extra muscle stimulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
Note that I have only run dbol on accident. I had some ugl "var" that had to be dbol and it exhibited all the traits I mentioned.
Curious why you avoided DbolQuote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
I bought anavar that was faked with dbol. I wanted var, not dbol. That's pretty much it.Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
Yeah but what I mean is why have you never wanted to take Dbol? Just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
I carry around a bit of body fat (20'ish% or so) and just don't want the extra estrogen that would bring on top of dbol. It would be silly in my opinion to take a wet compound then dry it out with an AI. Not saying I will never run it, because DAMN that strength, but I got the bloat from it big time. Literally, first dose I was like 'This anavar is crazy!' and then in like 3 days I was like 'ohhhh, there is the marshmallow man' and knew what I had.Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
How is dbol compared to var? Strength wise and other variables. Seems var is much safer with less sides. Was curious. I have quite a bit of dbol on hand that I had planned for a future cycle. But still on the fence about using it given my predisposition to gyno even at low test intake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
I haven't run dbol on purpose, but I have added low dose var to my trt on occasion. That said, the difference in the two starts with:Quote:
Originally Posted by teedoff
Dbol is wet as a swamp, var is dry as a desert.
An exaggeration, but does sum it up nicely. Dbol is great for short term strength gains, var for leaning you out. People will say "using var if you are over 10% body fat is a waste." That is an exaggeration. Even my fat a** noticeably hardens up with even 10mg var per day. Var increases my metabolism (tracked by my resting heart rate) and thus increases caloric demands. It's not a huge amount, but it does this for me.
And after our back and forth, I thought "hmm, you know I COULD cut down and then run some dbol". Got some on order now, I'll save it for a later date. May just try it as PWO... we'll see.
Yep. Knew the wet versus dry differences. I was just wondering if dbol strength gains were more pronounced than what i experienced on var.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
I may grab some more var as I too am a little on the fat side right now. Lol. Before, I was take 75mg a day but that was when I was on the gel. I like the increased metabolism aspect you mention though. At that low a dose, it becomes much more affordable. Thanks!
I think pound for pound Dbol is stronger in that its users typically report larger changes in the body. How much of that is retained is another topic.
I'm lean AF and I definitely put on size with Var and test. I'm still waiting for the big Dbol changes. Hope they come. Not expecting a ton of water weight because it's really not in my genetics. I need bulk and that's why I chose this compound.
The whole premise and MOA of Dbol is predicted on retaining waterQuote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark
Quote:
Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah
Who you calling old?
I need to work on my verbiage!Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
Man, get some MK677. That stuff will crank your appetite UP. I can't remember if we talked about it or not, but check it out if you want to eat like a friggin' shark.Quote:
Originally Posted by narcolepticshark