Kidney issues?

[lgnorant]

Hi All - been feeling excessive tiredness and muscle cramps here and there so recently so got bloods done - currently on 250mg test and 200mg primo e

My Urea is 26.93 and Creatinine is 1.29 - EGFR 75

I got bloods done 5.5 months ago and the levels were 6.3 for Urea and 90 for creatinine and Egfr >90

My liver enzymes also slightly elevated (AST 59 and ALT 65)

I have started to work out ALOT more since 5.5 months ago (cardio and weights) and im thinking maybe that may be a cause? Eating more protein too

Those numbers are quite worrying and may explain my tiredness...however can my kidneys have been damaged so fast in just 5.5 months?

blood pressure is fine 105-110/60s....HR resting of 55-60..

[< <Samson> >]

What’s your age? We’re you dehydrated prior to the blood being pulled?

EGFR isn’t too bad, my last one came back at 75 & the one prior was 69

That BUN(Urea) doesn’t look so swell. Highest I had mine was 20, when I was on lotts of juice.

I’d suggest retesting. Be hydrated - For just this test you don’t need to be fasted.


Your creatine & EGFR seem fine

[lgnorant]

What’s your age? We’re you dehydrated prior to the blood being pulled?

EGFR isn’t too bad, my last one came back at 75 & the one prior was 69

That BUN(Urea) doesn’t look so swell. Highest I had mine was 20, when I was on lotts of juice.

I’d suggest retesting. Be hydrated - For just this test you don’t need to be fasted.


Your creatine & EGFR seem fine

I am 29.

My Urea 5.5 months ago was 17 (6.3)

[< <Samson> >]

I’m a little rusty here, not being an MD & all

But, I compared all of your numbers to mine - yeah, they’re a bit off - including ALT/AST & BUN/Urea

My EGFR was exactly 75 last time
BUN/Urea was 14
AST was 27
ALT was 18


Dehydration would be a hopeful cause. Mine were completely skewed when I went after a long ass day at work.

Pull em again

[Honkey_Kong]

I don't want to convince you that you don't have a problem, but eGFR is a ratio based on what "they" consider a normal body's composition. Most people don't workout regularly nor do they have lots of muscle tissue.

The eGFR is measured with a mathematical formula that takes in to account creatinine in your blood, age, sex and if you're black or not.

The reason why they take in to account if you're black or not is because statistically, black people have more muscle tissue on them than white people. So the equation takes that in to account (if they didn't take that in to account, black people would have lower eGFR scores).

Now that brings up another point. If you have more muscle than the average man, and you consume a lot of protein and take creatine, you're creatinine level is going to be higher than it would otherwise. In normal people who don't workout very much (compared to the kind of people that would participating on a steroid website), this is a possible sign of kidney failure. But to us this is a metric that you cannot rely on for proof of your kidney's health.

By the way an eGFR of 75 is NOT that bad and they'd consider it for a normal person as "early stages of kidney disease."

I would try drinking a liter or so of water about an hour before you get retested if that doesn't raise your eGFR to above 90 (or close), then maybe consider talking to a nephrologist. They'll probably do an ultrasound or an MRI of your kidneys, but ultimately the treatment for CKD is to limit protein intake and control your blood pressure.

Most likely though, there's nothing wrong with your kidneys, so I wouldn't worry about it.

As far as your muscle cramps go, make sure you're drinking enough water and try supplementing with magnesium.

[SampsonandDelilah]

I don't want to convince you that you don't have a problem, but eGFR is a ratio based on what "they" consider a normal body's composition. Most people don't workout regularly nor do they have lots of muscle tissue.

The eGFR is measured with a mathematical formula that takes in to account creatinine in your blood, age, sex and if you're black or not.

The reason why they take in to account if you're black or not is because statistically, black people have more muscle tissue on them than white people. So the equation takes that in to account (if they didn't take that in to account, black people would have lower eGFR scores).

Now that brings up another point. If you have more muscle than the average man, and you consume a lot of protein and take creatine, you're creatinine level is going to be higher than it would otherwise. In normal people who don't workout very much (compared to the kind of people that would participating on a steroid website), this is a possible sign of kidney failure. But to us this is a metric that you cannot rely on for proof of your kidney's health.

By the way an eGFR of 75 is NOT that bad and they'd consider it for a normal person as "early stages of kidney disease."

I would try drinking a liter or so of water about an hour before you get retested if that doesn't raise your eGFR to above 90 (or close), then maybe consider talking to a nephrologist. They'll probably do an ultrasound or an MRI of your kidneys, but ultimately the treatment for CKD is to limit protein intake and control your blood pressure.

Most likely though, there's nothing wrong with your kidneys, so I wouldn't worry about it.

As far as your muscle cramps go, make sure you're drinking enough water and try supplementing with magnesium.

This ^^^^

Bodybuilding will cause excessive protein excretion through the kidneys and skew the numbers. If you took labs after you worked out, they’ll be even higher.
The tissue is torn down and passed through your kidneys, super common

[Cuz]

Bodybuilding just fucks with the numbers like they said. More muscle mass u carry, how much protein your body processes shit like that.

The best sign is to watch your urine color in my opinion. Dark urine you got serious problems. Your numbers look fine

[< <Samson> >]

Bodybuilding just fucks with the numbers like they said. More muscle mass u carry, how much protein your body processes shit like that.

The best sign is to watch your urine color in my opinion. Dark urine you got serious problems. Your numbers look fine

Spoken like a true juicer - LoL

[Cuz]

Spoken like a true juicer - LoL

My dr even told me so. He said creatinine is just gonna be higher in bodybuilders. We arent normal people so why expect normal numbers you know what im sayin. I mean obviously huge amounts of gear is gonna fuck u up we see that with any pro longed use of hell any drug

[Test Monsterone]

My egfr was around 65 last time. Creatinine always at the top limit of normal. Over the past four years I went from like 100 to that number. I was actually a little worried about that last time I had blood work. I looked at my past labs and saw the numbers slowly change, but that could have been due to an increased muscle to fat ratio, or who knows. Hopefully next time I run my numbers again they’ll be better. Good luck on yours, OP.

[lgnorant]

Taken 3 days off working out - lowered protein and also hydrating myself heavily

retesting friday

Creatinine is not even that high that doc was worried but BUN at 27 has got me a little worried.

my HCT was higher than normal (still within perfect range) however based on prev bloods so i must have been dehydrated

[Honkey_Kong]

A high protein diet can elevate BUN levels. And a protein diet like a bodybuilder eats can make it really high.

[< <Samson> >]

Surprisingly, enough my creatine levels have always been average - ever since I came off a creatine supplement. Now it’s about 1.5 or so

The best egfr I have seen is 5 years ago of 88. My thought on this is hydration - I’ve seen it down to 65, then next blood work bounce to 75

[lgnorant]

retested again

laid off protein (down to 125g) - hydrated alot and did not do any weights for 3 days

BUN of 22.7 (down from 27) - creatinine same at 115

Urine sample showed no signs of protein in urine which is good

Safe to say the increased BUN was due to protein/hydration?

[< <Samson> >]

retested again

laid off protein (down to 125g) - hydrated alot and did not do any weights for 3 days

BUN of 22.7 (down from 27) - creatinine same at 115

Urine sample showed no signs of protein in urine which is good

Safe to say the increased BUN was due to protein/hydration?

What about eGFR?

[lgnorant]

What about eGFR?

EGFR is 75

EGFR is calculated based on creatinine - which didnt change

Im ok with creatinine given i workout alot however my BUN i was a bit worried about

[lgnorant]

bump?

[almostgone]

It's good to pay attention to your blood work, but k ow that heavy exercise produces more waste products. Elevated BUN is one of them.

If you're losing sleep over it, take a week off, stay well hydrated, and pull the same panels again.

[lgnorant]

Got ultrasound back



Kidneys fine - normal size and no lesions or anything abnormal and prostate fine - Urinalysis also shows no blood or protein in urine

I think my BW figures were due to excessive working out and protein

I am however dropping primo and just upping test due to fatigue

250mg test & 200mg primo to just 350mg test e and a bit of adex

[Honkey_Kong]

Got ultrasound back



Kidneys fine - normal size and no lesions or anything abnormal and prostate fine - Urinalysis also shows no blood or protein in urine

I think my BW figures were due to excessive working out and protein

I am however dropping primo and just upping test due to fatigue

250mg test & 200mg primo to just 350mg test e and a bit of adex

What kind of ultrasound did you get? The size and lesions is important, but really, it's a special kind of ultrasound called "contrast enhanced." And it's rather difficult to get an appointment. I usually wait anywhere between 1-3 months for one from the time I call to make an appointment and when I actually get one.

And you're better off having an MRI done if you don't have any metallic objects inside of you.

[lgnorant]

What kind of ultrasound did you get? The size and lesions is important, but really, it's a special kind of ultrasound called "contrast enhanced." And it's rather difficult to get an appointment. I usually wait anywhere between 1-3 months for one from the time I call to make an appointment and when I actually get one.

And you're better off having an MRI done if you don't have any metallic objects inside of you.

do you think that is necessary

my BP is 110s over 60's - i dont think my kidneys are suffering

[Honkey_Kong]

do you think that is necessary

my BP is 110s over 60's - i dont think my kidneys are suffering

I'm sure your kidneys are fine. I'm just surprised you even got an appointment for the ultrasound that quickly.

[Cuz]

Gotta be a troll

[lgnorant]

I'm sure your kidneys are fine. I'm just surprised you even got an appointment for the ultrasound that quickly.

Australia is a wonderful place

[lgnorant]

Gotta be a troll

this isnt a troll post....

[< <Samson> >]

Apparently GFR isn’t included in a typical blood test anymore - it’s just eGFR < which is just a made up number like BMI

I’ll get a kidney panel when I go in next time, why not

Edit, after more reading they no longer do GFR at all, it’s all creatine calculation BS - lame

[Honkey_Kong]

Apparently GFR isn’t included in a typical blood test anymore - it’s just eGFR < which is just a made up number like BMI

I’ll get a kidney panel when I go in next time, why not

Edit, after more reading they no longer do GFR at all, it’s all creatine calculation BS - lame

Getting a 24 hour urine collection probably would be a good idea too. I see a lot of people focusing on what's in the blood, but never what comes out of the body.

[fossil]

I'd say get your doc to change the method for determining your egfr. Don't use creatinine, use Cystatin-C. It is not as dependent on your muscle mass/creatine levels. My doc saw that my egfr was slowly dropping, and made me an appt with a nephrologist.
BUN 18 MG/DL 8−23 CPL
CREATININE 1.45 MG/DL H 0.80−1.40 CPL
eGFR AFRICAN AMER. 59 ML/MIN/1.73 L >60 CPL
eGFR NON−AFRICAN AMER. [B]51 ML/MIN/1.73 L >60 CPL[/B]
CALC BUN/CREAT 12 RATIO 6−28 CPL
My egfr was 51 and should have been over 60. Even my nephrologist was alarmed, had I not done my research to prove to him it was because of my elevated amount of creatine due to overall muscle mass, he would have had me on some meds, of that I am sure.
I dug for days and found enough evidence to present to him to at least order the cystatin C test(which he had never heard of) and finally he calmed down.

CYSTATIN−C
CYSTATIN−C 1.1 MG/L 0.6−1.2 CPL
CREATININE 1.61 MG/DL H 0.80−1.40 CPL
eGFR CYS−CR.(2021 CKD−EPI) 60 ML/MIN/1.73 >59 C
here is shows my egfr to be 60.

At least now my doc and nephrologist are in agreement, but had I not pushed the point and dug deep, who knows what they'd have me on??!!

Here is a list of all the info I have on kidney testing using the cystatin-c and creatinine markers. All good reads, especially if you are worried about your kidneys!

*****
https://www.aacc.org/cln/articles/20...hn-c-lieske-md

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6961921/

https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/cystatinC

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0226509

https://www.merckmanuals.com/-/media...CystatinC.html

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2020/03...back-pain.html

https://startingstrength.com/resourc...bloodwork.html

https://acutecaretesting.org/en/arti...and-cystatin-c
***

[almostgone]

I'm sure your kidneys are fine. I'm just surprised you even got an appointment for the ultrasound that quickly.

Are you still supplementing with astragalus, H_K? My eGFR, creatinine, and Bun continue to improve. My values were at CKD 3B, and now fluctuates with most values coming in at the CKD 2 level.

After my last ultrasound, my nephrologist was somewhat puzzled. He was leaning towards PKD because of the size of my kidneys, but when he presented my imaging to the team at the nephrology practice, the number and size of the size of the cysts had decreased and the kidney sizes were smaller

Astragalus is definitely not a miracle drug, but I think there are some positive benefits to it. It definitely helped some of Dante's guys.

[Honkey_Kong]

Are you still supplementing with astragalus, H_K? My eGFR, creatinine, and Bun continue to improve. My values were at CKD 3B, and now fluctuates with most values coming in at the CKD 2 level.

After my last ultrasound, my nephrologist was somewhat puzzled. He was leasing towards PCD because of the size of my kidneys, but when he presented my imaging to the team at the nephrology practice. The number and size of the size of the cysts had decreased and the kidney sizes were lower.

Astragalus is definitely not a miracle drug, but I think there are some positive benefits to it. It definitely helped some of Dante's guys.

After I my ultrasound results came back confirming my kidney is in good shape, I haven't been on top of it with the astragalus as much. I probably should be better about taking them, but I'm already taking 7 pills a day minimum and more if I need a Tylenol or a couple Aleve (and I really shouldn't be taking any NSAIDs).

On the plus side, I think my kidney condition is stable. I haven't been taking any more gear lately than my HRT medicine

[< <Samson> >]

There’s a new supplement to add to the collection