Elbow Tendonitis

I found this interesting. Both elbows have started irritating me over the past month or so. Slowly ramping up in irritation. So, I went to the ortho to check them as well as a shoulder issue. Ultra sound revealed what he felt was calcium in both elbow tendons. He sent me for x-rays which I got within the hour and actually was able to go back to his office in the afternoon.

He initiated what's called Shock Wave Therapy (Extracorporeal Shock Wave Therapy) which is sound wave technology. Basically what has been used for decades on kidney stones. It only took about 5 minutes per elbow and when the frequency was ramped up over the calcium it was a little painful. Tolerable but painful. I need to go back a few more weeks in a row but after just one treatment they do seem to be improved.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-p...y/mac-20454275

Then while researching elbow calcium I came upon this type of treatment with basically acid reflux medications:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28659055/

https://europepmc.org/article/med/33312981

Fascinating stuff so I sent the link to my Ortho so it's something to consider if the Shock Wave Therapy doesn't help as expected.

Anyway, I thought I'd share as no doubt others here have had elbow issues.

kel

Following… I’m dealing with an extremely bad case of tennis elbow. I’ve tried everything from peptides, curcumin, chiropractor even lamb fat lol. It’s from overuse in my line of business. I had it on my right arm but I ended up dislocating that wrist so not being able to use it for four months healed the tennis elbow. Now I have it on my left and it’s a much worse case. Is shock wave like a tense machine? I’m curious to see how that works out for you.

why not just get some tagamet and give it a shot now? 400mg daily is like 2 otc i think... and let me know! this is pretty interesting!

the escwt does sound promising, essentially a more powerful/focused ultrasound... i wonder what type of protocol they use, as for nephrolithiasis its a pain in the ass... general anesthesia , set up, the loud clicking every other second, then chill for 45+ min in sterile gown... lol, anyways off my soap box.. i wonder if they do it hand held, and how long it is done for...

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Originally Posted by Lemonada8

why not just get some tagamet and give it a shot now? 400mg daily is like 2 otc i think... and let me know! this is pretty interesting!

the escwt does sound promising, essentially a more powerful/focused ultrasound... i wonder what type of protocol they use, as for nephrolithiasis its a pain in the ass... general anesthesia , set up, the loud clicking every other second, then chill for 45+ min in sterile gown... lol, anyways off my soap box.. i wonder if they do it hand held, and how long it is done for...

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I've had that thought but I wanted to at least give the initial therapy a chance otherwise I won't really know which is effective. Not that I care really as long as the relief is there, but it's nice to know.
We'll see how my patience goes with this process and I'll update along the way.

Intersting... I actually bought one of those machines a few years ago. It's really loud right? Some people use it for massages and increasing circulation. I used it a couple of times on my girl and her on me, but not for tendon pain - although I had plenty of that.

Tbh barely lifting after getting off TRT eliminated most of my pains. I had a bad right shoulder, and left elbow, both of which no longer hurt. It's awesome to not feel that nagging pain. I hope the relief holds up for you.

My elbow and shoulder kill me, always on my right arm. Last week i got a toradol and kenalog injection and it worked wonders for me. So far so good. I’ve also lowered the weight and its helped also.
I love lifting heavy but being miserable 24/7 waking up in the night bc of pain just flat out isnt a good life

The pain finally goes away when the tendon tears all of the way off. It is however a mixed blessing.

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Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

Intersting... I actually bought one of those machines a few years ago. It's really loud right? Some people use it for massages and increasing circulation. I used it a couple of times on my girl and her on me, but not for tendon pain - although I had plenty of that.

Tbh barely lifting after getting off TRT eliminated most of my pains. I had a bad right shoulder, and left elbow, both of which no longer hurt. It's awesome to not feel that nagging pain. I hope the relief holds up for you.

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Almost afraid to ask where you used it on each other.....

Why'd you come off TRT? Are your levels ok now?

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Originally Posted by Cuz

My elbow and shoulder kill me, always on my right arm. Last week i got a toradol and kenalog injection and it worked wonders for me. So far so good. I’ve also lowered the weight and its helped also.
I love lifting heavy but being miserable 24/7 waking up in the night bc of pain just flat out isnt a good life

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Lovely isn't it! My shoulder has issues as well. Doc's hitting it with a shot next week if I can get in. I've lightened up the weight as well. Particularly on squats but I still get the Zilretta knee injections every 3 months or so as needed.

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Originally Posted by wango

The pain finally goes away when the tendon tears all of the way off. It is however a mixed blessing.

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Not the kind of mix I'm looking for!

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Not the kind of mix I'm looking for!

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Lol. Although the lack of functionality sucks, no pain after 30+ years is a Godsend. Good luck with the epicondylitis. I battled medial (“golfers elbow”) on & off for years. In came & went as it pleased, and barely a damn thing I could do about it. Sometimes ultrasound with a cortisone cream helped, other times it didn’t. I recall the lovely feeling of the ultrasound bouncing off of bone well, a real eye opener.

Dont forget the old standby cortisone shots. Worked wonders on the SLAP tear in my shoulder that I got from doing heavy skull crushers several years back

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Originally Posted by Zenpump

Dont forget the old standby cortisone shots. Worked wonders on the SLAP tear in my shoulder that I got from doing heavy skull crushers several years back

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Not a lot of depth for injections on the epicondyles. Great for shoulders though.

Ok don’t laugh.. these work:

COPPER HEAL Elbow Compression Sleeve - Best Medical Recovery Elbow Brace Guaranteed with Highest Copper Infused Content - Support Stiff Sore Muscles and Joints Tendonitis Arm Tennis Basket Wrap https://a.co/d/dg6ggU9


I swear my elbow was cured on my third workout now I just continue to work out with it on.

I also got one for my left knee that had some nagging pain and tightness and it is also 100% now.

I challenge anyone to give these a try. It has to be the copper one fyi.

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Almost afraid to ask where you used it on each other.....

Why'd you come off TRT? Are your levels ok now?

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Haha, it's too painful down there... I tried. Don't ask. Got off cause I want to regain fertility... my girl wants to get pregnant. I haven't done bloodwork actually, but I feel overall fine and according to my fertility test, my swimmers are above average for what they see. I'm kinda ok not knowing for now until we get this out of the way.

I'm curious about the pituitary adenoma. I thought I might have one cause my test was inexplicably low-ish but my IGF was too high (like 330 when it should be like 150-250). Are there any symptoms or things that would point to it on bloodwork? Are you going to get the surgery at some point, or is it not necessary?

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Originally Posted by Cuz

My elbow and shoulder kill me, always on my right arm. Last week i got a toradol and kenalog injection and it worked wonders for me. So far so good. I’ve also lowered the weight and its helped also.
I love lifting heavy but being miserable 24/7 waking up in the night bc of pain just flat out isnt a good life

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That toradol is great, but you're not supposed to use it for more than 5 days. I pulled something in my back a couple years ago. It made breathing a painful chore. But yeah 1 injection gave me a good 6 solid hours pain free.

My gym owner gets a cells9nic machine in a few weeks. To hear her tell it, it'll cure just about everything. From stds to Ed to bad joints/tissue.

Trying to get me to try it out for my knee. I have knee pain and elbow pain as well occasionally. I'm not sold. The cost is per pulse and for me knee it's 6 pulses for 250 bucks. Lol

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Originally Posted by teedoff

My gym owner gets a cells9nic machine in a few weeks. To hear her tell it, it'll cure just about everything. From stds to Ed to bad joints/tissue.

Trying to get me to try it out for my knee. I have knee pain and elbow pain as well occasionally. I'm not sold. The cost is per pulse and for me knee it's 6 pulses for 250 bucks. Lol

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That sounds like quackery. It cures STDs, ED and bad joints?

I just tried to order these. My size is out of stock indefinitely ☹️

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Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

That sounds like quackery. It cures STDs, ED and bad joints?

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Yup. In the joints it vibrates off the jagged cartilage. For ED, if stimulates the Dick muscle back into life & for STDs, the vibration paralyzes the virus or in the case of warts or herpes, vibrates them into oblivion. :icon_roll

I’m 99.999% sure he was being sarcastic in that it sounds like another “miracle cure” that can rake in huge $ with very little $ spent on the equipment or the personnel giving the treatment.

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Originally Posted by wango

Yup. In the joints it vibrates off the jagged cartilage. For ED, if stimulates the Dick muscle back into life & for STDs, the vibration paralyzes the virus or in the case of warts or herpes, vibrates them into oblivion. :icon_roll

I’m 99.999% sure he was being sarcastic in that it sounds like another “miracle cure” that can rake in huge $ with very little $ spent on the equipment or the personnel giving the treatment.

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No I wasn't. That was THE exact conversation we had with the gym owner on Wed. Lol. One of the other patrons mentioned talking to her friend in Utah that also uses the cellsonic machine and that friend told her it would cure stds. Lol. That's when we started naming off Ed and other ailments she said it would "cure".

Not doubting there's some benefit to this machine, but like other things, with time it garners a bit of embellishment in certain circles.

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Originally Posted by teedoff

No I wasn't. That was THE exact conversation we had with the gym owner on Wed. Lol. One of the other patrons mentioned talking to her friend in Utah that also uses the cellsonic machine and that friend told her it would cure stds. Lol. That's when we started naming off Ed and other ailments she said it would "cure".

Not doubting there's some benefit to this machine, but like other things, with time it garners a bit of embellishment in certain circles.

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That brings up a good question. Are you going to touch that cellsonic machine after some dude wiped his herpes all over it?

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Originally Posted by teedoff

No I wasn't. That was THE exact conversation we had with the gym owner on Wed. Lol. One of the other patrons mentioned talking to her friend in Utah that also uses the cellsonic machine and that friend told her it would cure stds. Lol. That's when we started naming off Ed and other ailments she said it would "cure".

Not doubting there's some benefit to this machine, but like other things, with time it garners a bit of embellishment in certain circles.

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Well, I was. We’ve used sound waves in physical therapy for decades. It’s pretty much good for stimulating blood flow needed for healing.

Sound waves cannot help bad joints. Now if you’re stimulating blood flow to the tendon that crosses that joint, ok.

ED, not a chance. It’s likely they’re getting confused with Peyronie’s disease which is calcification in the elastic walls of the penis. It doesn’t work. In fact sound waves have done a shit job with plantar fasciitis as well and not so great with Myositis ossificans too.

It’s another racket that you can bill high rates and pay the machine off in 2 days. You can hire a monkey to do the treatment as long as you co-sign the monkeys treatment notes. Teach the monkey to do a massage to “break up the calcium” in the tendon and you can bill another $100 for a 5-10 minute “calcific friction massage” (my words, but trust me, it’s coming).

How do you think the medical profession takes in so much $?

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Originally Posted by wango

Well, I was. We’ve used sound waves in physical therapy for decades. It’s pretty much good for stimulating blood flow needed for healing.

Sound waves cannot help bad joints. Now if you’re stimulating blood flow to the tendon that crosses that joint, ok.

ED, not a chance. It’s likely they’re getting confused with Peyronie’s disease which is calcification in the elastic walls of the penis. It doesn’t work. In fact sound waves have done a shit job with plantar fasciitis as well and not so great with Myositis ossificans too.

It’s another racket that you can bill high rates and pay the machine off in 2 days. You can hire a monkey to do the treatment as long as you co-sign the monkeys treatment notes. Teach the monkey to do a massage to “break up the calcium” in the tendon and you can bill another $100 for a 5-10 minute “calcific friction massage” (my words, but trust me, it’s coming).

How do you think the medical profession takes in so much $?

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Oh totally agree. Like I said. I'm sure there are some benefits to cellsonic therapy, but it's not a cure all device. They're even claiming it's cured cancer. Lol.

Between this and essential oils, we're gonna live forever!

She also does what's called non surgical treatment, which basically is where she uses her elbow to do deep tissue massage to break up scar tissue and possibly calcium deposits and such that cause inflammation. She's been trying to get me to do that for 2 years. Lol Even told me a few weeks ago, before I had my esophagus stretched during my endoscopy that non surgical would cure that.

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Originally Posted by teedoff

Oh totally agree. Like I said. I'm sure there are some benefits to cellsonic therapy, but it's not a cure all device. They're even claiming it's cured cancer. Lol.

Between this and essential oils, we're gonna live forever!

She also does what's called non surgical treatment, which basically is where she uses her elbow to do deep tissue massage to break up scar tissue and possibly calcium deposits and such that cause inflammation. She's been trying to get me to do that for 2 years. Lol Even told me a few weeks ago, before I had my esophagus stretched during my endoscopy that non surgical would cure that.

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Hey, I just wanted to start by saying that I didn’t mean to give you any grief. I apologize if I came off as rude to you.

I was just venting on yet another miracle cure that is the flavor of the day, sure to rake in millions and then vanish after doing next to nothing.

Actually elbows, knuckles and various tools are effective for some scar tissue & deep muscle tightness (Thai massagers use their heels and support themselves from the ceiling) but not calcification.
And man, if done right, you pretty much have to put a towel in your patient’s mouth to bite into or they’ll petrify the entire office with their screams. Manually tearing through scar tissue feels pretty cool to you the practitioner and you can often hear it, but from the patients point of view, yikes.

Peace buddy, again no harm intended.

To the OP, good luck and I hope your insurance has it covered!

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Originally Posted by wango

Hey, I just wanted to start by saying that I didn’t mean to give you any grief. I apologize if I came off as rude to you.

I was just venting on yet another miracle cure that is the flavor of the day, sure to rake in millions and then vanish after doing next to nothing.

Actually elbows, knuckles and various tools are effective for some scar tissue & deep muscle tightness (Thai massagers use their heels and support themselves from the ceiling) but not calcification.
And man, if done right, you pretty much have to put a towel in your patient’s mouth to bite into or they’ll petrify the entire office with their screams. Manually tearing through scar tissue feels pretty cool to you the practitioner and you can often hear it, but from the patients point of view, yikes.

Peace buddy, again no harm intended.

To the OP, good luck and I hope your insurance has it covered!

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Just saw you're reply. No worries at all. I didn't take it anyway but a good discussion. I bring stuff like this up here because I know, or think there are some health care professionals here.

I'm a natural skeptic with "new" treatments or devices...or anything really. Especially if people start making far out claims like she did. Lol

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Originally Posted by wango

To the OP, good luck and I hope your insurance has it covered!

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Yep, it's being covered by insurance.

Had two treatments so far and will stop at 3 regardless. Seems to be feeling a bit better so far. I also started the Tagamet 5 days ago. Only sides from that the first few days were facial flushing. So, improvements remain to be seen. In the meantime there's always ways to work around the pain.

Update.

I started the Tagamet on the 5th of the month. So far I've had three shock wave treatments on the bad elbow and two on the not so bad elbow. The not so bad elbow is painless as of today's shoulder and tri workout. The elbow that was really sore I'd say is 95% improved. Minimal to no pain on shoulders (two pressing movements) and none on Tri's.

How much is due to the shock wave or Tagamet individually? Who knows and who cares. It makes sense that together it would be quicker. In the study posted all pain was gone in 1.8 months. We'll see how chest work goes on international chest day.....

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Update.

I started the Tagamet on the 5th of the month. So far I've had three shock wave treatments on the bad elbow and two on the not so bad elbow. The not so bad elbow is painless as of today's shoulder and tri workout. The elbow that was really sore I'd say is 95% improved. Minimal to no pain on shoulders (two pressing movements) and none on Tri's.

How much is due to the shock wave or Tagamet individually? Who knows and who cares. It makes sense that together it would be quicker. In the study posted all pain was gone in 1.8 months. We'll see how chest work goes on international chest day.....

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Nice! That's great news, Kel!!
Definitely keep us updated. Appreciate the links, I'll dig into them in the morning.

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Update.

I started the Tagamet on the 5th of the month. So far I've had three shock wave treatments on the bad elbow and two on the not so bad elbow. The not so bad elbow is painless as of today's shoulder and tri workout. The elbow that was really sore I'd say is 95% improved. Minimal to no pain on shoulders (two pressing movements) and none on Tri's.

How much is due to the shock wave or Tagamet individually? Who knows and who cares. It makes sense that together it would be quicker. In the study posted all pain was gone in 1.8 months. We'll see how chest work goes on international chest day.....

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On Monday?

I got a pretty severe case of golfers elbow on both elbows like a year ago. I was carrying shit at work and working out wich both contributed to it. In the end nothing else worked that i stopped training back like pullups pulldowns etc and all exercises that would aggrevate it. I focused more on chest and shoulders and stopped back training for like 3 months. The pain in the elbows started to go away but i knew if i did anything like even hang it would start hurting again. Then i started adding in back exercises that wouldnt aggrevate the elbow. Like straight arm pulldowns and a pulldown machine with angled handles i found didnt hurt also(i think its called the overhead row machine).

Now its like a year since it started, and its starting to go away but its still in there somewhere deep, a little. But i have managed to return to weighted pullups, i use neutral grip since it doesnt hurt the elbow. And pull downs with super wide grip with a little angle in the end of the bar, doesnt hurt either. Basically i can do alot things already that i couuldnt do before. But i know i have to be careful because if i overdo it, elbows start hurting again.

Hopefully one day the pain will dissapear completely and i can start doing chin ups. farmer carrys or whatever i want and not have to worry about the elbows

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Originally Posted by s1nc1ty

I got a pretty severe case of golfers elbow on both elbows like a year ago. I was carrying shit at work and working out wich both contributed to it. In the end nothing else worked that i stopped training back like pullups pulldowns etc and all exercises that would aggrevate it. I focused more on chest and shoulders and stopped back training for like 3 months. The pain in the elbows started to go away but i knew if i did anything like even hang it would start hurting again. Then i started adding in back exercises that wouldnt aggrevate the elbow. Like straight arm pulldowns and a pulldown machine with angled handles i found didnt hurt also(i think its called the overhead row machine).

Now its like a year since it started, and its starting to go away but its still in there somewhere deep, a little. But i have managed to return to weighted pullups, i use neutral grip since it doesnt hurt the elbow. And pull downs with super wide grip with a little angle in the end of the bar, doesnt hurt either. Basically i can do alot things already that i couuldnt do before. But i know i have to be careful because if i overdo it, elbows start hurting again.

Hopefully one day the pain will dissapear completely and i can start doing chin ups. farmer carrys or whatever i want and not have to worry about the elbows

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Sounds like your pains a for sure a chronic issue. A tennis elbow strap or even compression sleeve has worked for my patients in this case. It does not stop the pain, but it will help disperse it greatly. I often use Pre-wrap and roll it up into a band above and below the elbow right at the tendonous junctions.

A bunch of epicondylitis stems from tight flexor or extensor muscle groups of the forearms. Graston/Scraping is a good tool to help decrease the tension and scar tissue. It helps promote blood flow to allow healing; fair warning, this does hurt like a bitch for majority of people. It is literally a stiff plastic or metal tool that is digging/scratching the affected area. I have also seen dry needling work wonders on this type of injury, it allows WBCs to concentrate in the area to repair the micro-damage the needles caused overall healing the whole area.

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Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

On Monday?

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Of course!

Workouts were basically elbow pain free. Both chest work and shoulders. Took it easy and went slowly waiting for it to bite me but it did not happen. Quite pleased so far.

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Originally Posted by Small to large

Sounds like your pains a for sure a chronic issue. A tennis elbow strap or even compression sleeve has worked for my patients in this case. It does not stop the pain, but it will help disperse it greatly. I often use Pre-wrap and roll it up into a band above and below the elbow right at the tendonous junctions.

A bunch of epicondylitis stems from tight flexor or extensor muscle groups of the forearms. Graston/Scraping is a good tool to help decrease the tension and scar tissue. It helps promote blood flow to allow healing; fair warning, this does hurt like a bitch for majority of people. It is literally a stiff plastic or metal tool that is digging/scratching the affected area. I have also seen dry needling work wonders on this type of injury, it allows WBCs to concentrate in the area to repair the micro-damage the needles caused overall healing the whole area.

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I've used tennis elbow straps for radialis inflammation like Sincity mentions (tennis elbow) with success as it keeps the area from constant pounding exacerbating the already inflammed area. My current issue was actual elbow pain with calcium in the tendons at the elbow. Thrilled that this combined therapy worked as quickly as it did.