Test, deca, tbol/anavar cycle question

[LD1812]

I know the general consensus is 1 oral per cycle is max for liver toxicity. My question is if I'm running Test, Deca , why could I not kick start on Tbol and finish with anavar? I realize these are two orals but tbol is more taxing on liver whereas anavar is more taxing on kidneys by the make up. With proper liver support and organ support could this not be a workable combo? Obviously there's a risk as with any chemical but since the two are primarily broken down in different organs would it still be frowned upon? For reference this would not be my 1st cycle it'd be my 4th and I've used all the compounds with the exception of tbol in the past. Goals would be a lean bulk which is why tbol as opposed to dbol and var at the end to cut a little extra in the last 6 weeks. Probably looking a 12 week cycle with 1st 6 with dbol and last 6 with the anavar.

Any input would be appreciated.

[Scorpion0922]

I've seen guys do this all the time. I'd imagine that most guys will say "no" to runing one oral and then changing to the other with no break; which in this case would have you running 12 weeks of an oral.

[JTP$]

I know the general consensus is 1 oral per cycle is max for liver toxicity. My question is if I'm running Test, Deca , why could I not kick start on Tbol and finish with anavar? I realize these are two orals but tbol is more taxing on liver whereas anavar is more taxing on kidneys by the make up. With proper liver support and organ support could this not be a workable combo? Obviously there's a risk as with any chemical but since the two are primarily broken down in different organs would it still be frowned upon? For reference this would not be my 1st cycle it'd be my 4th and I've used all the compounds with the exception of tbol in the past. Goals would be a lean bulk which is why tbol as opposed to dbol and var at the end to cut a little extra in the last 6 weeks. Probably looking a 12 week cycle with 1st 6 with dbol and last 6 with the anavar.

Any input would be appreciated.

I understand the logic that youd want to force gains to continue to come after week 6, however doing this with oral steroids is going to be taxing on your liver. Have you tried running a 12 week cycle with the first 6 weeks using an oral, then continuing the injectables at the same dose? if you have and your gains pretty much stop after you drop the oral, you could try increasing your dose of injectable gear. or maybe add in another injectable compound, like test prop.

also, its been my experience that tbol is weak, especially if you run it with a lean bulk or cutting diet. its one of those compounds that performs much better when the calories are higher. i would strongly recommend dianabol or anadrol instead of turinibol.

[teedoff]

Why not just run var the last 6 weeks of your cycle and forget the tbol?

[Test Monsterone]

I don't think there's any proof that these "liver supports" or the like actually do anything.. Your liver still has to metabolize the steroid - and that is what makes orals toxic to the liver. Taking something on top of it is not going to help much, if at all. I just think it's marketing bs with no scientific evidence. I want to see the biomechanics of how it works. People just see a pill bottle that says "Liver cleanse" and think it's a magic eraser for all the shit they put in their bodies. I don't see a reason to take orals other than impatience. If you want to trade a couple of weeks of gains for some level of liver damage, go ahead.

[Honkey_Kong]

I agree with TM. These liver supports are like putting band aids on gunshot wounds.

That being said, the liver can take a lot of damage and bounce back from it. Supposing you're not taking a lethal dose of something (which you're not), you'll elevate your enzymes and irritate the liver, but when you're done it'll go back to normal. Permanent damage is really from long term things (like diabetes or alcoholism).

Really though, this "lean bulk" shit I see is just people thinking if they can take more drugs it'll make up for a shitty diet, where they're not eating enough to grow. And taking extra steroids isn't going to make up for the fact that you're not eating enough to maximize muscle growth. When I would want to put muscle on, I wouldn't worry so much if I put a little fat on too. It's going to happen to some degree. That's why we also can cut.

[Scorpion0922]

I agree with TM. These liver supports are like putting band aids on gunshot wounds.

That being said, the liver can take a lot of damage and bounce back from it. Supposing you're not taking a lethal dose of something (which you're not), you'll elevate your enzymes and irritate the liver, but when you're done it'll go back to normal. Permanent damage is really from long term things (like diabetes or alcoholism).

Really though, this "lean bulk" shit I see is just people thinking if they can take more drugs it'll make up for a shitty diet, where they're not eating enough to grow. And taking extra steroids isn't going to make up for the fact that you're not eating enough to maximize muscle growth. When I would want to put muscle on, I wouldn't worry so much if I put a little fat on too. It's going to happen to some degree. That's why we also can cut.

Agreed:
Build it
Shape it
Shred it

[JTP$]

I agree with TM. These liver supports are like putting band aids on gunshot wounds.

That being said, the liver can take a lot of damage and bounce back from it. Supposing you're not taking a lethal dose of something (which you're not), you'll elevate your enzymes and irritate the liver, but when you're done it'll go back to normal. Permanent damage is really from long term things (like diabetes or alcoholism).

Really though, this "lean bulk" shit I see is just people thinking if they can take more drugs it'll make up for a shitty diet, where they're not eating enough to grow. And taking extra steroids isn't going to make up for the fact that you're not eating enough to maximize muscle growth. When I would want to put muscle on, I wouldn't worry so much if I put a little fat on too. It's going to happen to some degree. That's why we also can cut.

when i was younger i was more into dirty bulking, meaning eating excessive calories along with AAS use to gain as much as possible. i feel like after bulking like that, id diet and the end result would be similar to having not eaten so many calories. i always lose muscle when dieting, and being fat just isnt an option.

but if i had no constraints, meaning periodic check ins with my TRT doctor i could see how blasting with test/deca/dbol with heavy calorie intake, followed up immediately with strict cutting on test/tren would yield the fastest and most extreme results.

[Honkey_Kong]

when i was younger i was more into dirty bulking, meaning eating excessive calories along with AAS use to gain as much as possible. i feel like after bulking like that, id diet and the end result would be similar to having not eaten so many calories. i always lose muscle when dieting, and being fat just isnt an option.

but if i had no constraints, meaning periodic check ins with my TRT doctor i could see how blasting with test/deca/dbol with heavy calorie intake, followed up immediately with strict cutting on test/tren would yield the fastest and most extreme results.

If you lost all the muscle you gained in the bulk, when you cut, that tells me you likely didn't consume enough protein or that you were cutting your calories way too low. Also, let's be honest when you're cutting your intensity is likely taking a hit. Is it not? Limiting that will help you preserve muscle more. Also volume is super critical as well.

[JTP$]

If you lost all the muscle you gained in the bulk, when you cut, that tells me you likely didn't consume enough protein or that you were cutting your calories way too low. Also, let's be honest when you're cutting your intensity is likely taking a hit. Is it not? Limiting that will help you preserve muscle more. Also volume is super critical as well.

cutting did not cause me to lose all the muscle i gained on my bulk cycles, i lost some. this was likely impacted by aggressively cutting calories and doing high volume cardio. coming off blast results in loss of size as well.

in any case, i dont like dirty bulking. my end goal has always been to be as swole as possible, and as lean as possible. being fat from dirty bulking just doesnt cut it.

[charger69]

I know the general consensus is 1 oral per cycle is max for liver toxicity. My question is if I'm running Test, Deca , why could I not kick start on Tbol and finish with anavar? I realize these are two orals but tbol is more taxing on liver whereas anavar is more taxing on kidneys by the make up. With proper liver support and organ support could this not be a workable combo? Obviously there's a risk as with any chemical but since the two are primarily broken down in different organs would it still be frowned upon? For reference this would not be my 1st cycle it'd be my 4th and I've used all the compounds with the exception of tbol in the past. Goals would be a lean bulk which is why tbol as opposed to dbol and var at the end to cut a little extra in the last 6 weeks. Probably looking a 12 week cycle with 1st 6 with dbol and last 6 with the anavar.

Any input wo e appreciated.

Everyone gave great responses. There are a couple of items that I would want to point out. Don't look to AAS to cut. You can cut on any steroid. Diet determines cut not the steroid. Granted there are better steroids for cutting than others. I am actually on a bulking cycle right now and am using test, deca and Tbol. I do not like the water retention with dbol.
As far as damage, no one has been able to provide me with any scientific data that one oral is worse than another. I have asked people that are self proclaimed experts and as of today no one can provide data. If you have any, please let me know.
I would also question your cycle of 12 weeks using decca. I have done short cycles on deca before to try and get a bulk prior to a competition with little time. It really did not make a big difference. I would recommend a longer 16 week decca cycle. This is not to say that 12 week cycle cannot produce results, the long ester delays the results. I usually front load if I am going to do a shorter cycle.
Steroids play a big part with me competing, however they are not the final answer to lose weight or prepare for a competition. They are aids to assist in obtaining the goal.
Be smart with your body and health. I am rather old and still compete and have slowed down on the agressive cycle that I used to do. It does take a toll no matter what preventative measure that you think that you are taking.
I just thought that I would give my $.02

[kelkel]

Disagree with those saying liver support is ineffective. NAC for example (and similar supps) help with liver toxicity and are well studied. When the liver becomes toxic or under too much stress its glutathione (sp?) levels are decreased which can then ramp up oxidative stress which leads to all sorts of other issues. Oxidative stress is another reason many guys now take Telmisartan as well for Oxidative stress and other steroid induced issues.

[kelkel]

I am rather old

Yep.

[Scorpion0922]

Everyone gave great responses. There are a couple of items that I would want to point out. Don't look to AAS to cut. You can cut on any steroid. Diet determines cut not the steroid. Granted there are better steroids for cutting than others. I am actually on a bulking cycle right now and am using test, deca and Tbol. I do not like the water retention with dbol.
As far as damage, no one has been able to provide me with any scientific data that one oral is worse than another. I have asked people that are self proclaimed experts and as of today no one can provide data. If you have any, please let me know.
I would also question your cycle of 12 weeks using decca. I have done short cycles on deca before to try and get a bulk prior to a competition with little time. It really did not make a big difference. I would recommend a longer 16 week decca cycle. This is not to say that 12 week cycle cannot produce results, the long ester delays the results. I usually front load if I am going to do a shorter cycle.
Steroids play a big part with me competing, however they are not the final answer to lose weight or prepare for a competition. They are aids to assist in obtaining the goal.
Be smart with your body and health. I am rather old and still compete and have slowed down on the agressive cycle that I used to do. It does take a toll no matter what preventative measure that you think that you are taking.
I just thought that I would give my $.02

Well said

[AR's King Silabolin]

I know the general consensus is 1 oral per cycle is max for liver toxicity. My question is if I'm running Test, Deca , why could I not kick start on Tbol and finish with anavar? I realize these are two orals but tbol is more taxing on liver whereas anavar is more taxing on kidneys by the make up. With proper liver support and organ support could this not be a workable combo? Obviously there's a risk as with any chemical but since the two are primarily broken down in different organs would it still be frowned upon? For reference this would not be my 1st cycle it'd be my 4th and I've used all the compounds with the exception of tbol in the past. Goals would be a lean bulk which is why tbol as opposed to dbol and var at the end to cut a little extra in the last 6 weeks. Probably looking a 12 week cycle with 1st 6 with dbol and last 6 with the anavar.

Any input would be appreciated.

There should be no problems. Tbol and anavar are not that toxic.
And in worst case, if a sligth damage to the liver. It will heal.
Just do bloods before your next run, so u make sure its GTG.
12 weeks dianabol, superdrol, anadrol is another story at our levels.
But as i said, liverdamage (sligth) isnt your worst enemy.
Its very rare u hear pros die from liverdamage.
Heart is the problem. And high BP taxes the heart.
So make sure your your BP is ok.
Most efficient way is to not stop NO production in your arteries. And best way to do that, is not to trigger insulin all the time.
Best way to that, is eating in a 6 hour window, eat fat n pro before your carbs and in generall, stay low in carbs.

Sent fra min SM-G998B via Tapatalk

[Honkey_Kong]

There should be no problems. Tbol and anavar are not that toxic.
And in worst case, if a sligth damage to the liver. It will heal.
Just do bloods before your next run, so u make sure its GTG.
12 weeks dianabol, superdrol, anadrol is another story at our levels.
But as i said, liverdamage (sligth) isnt your worst enemy.
Its very rare u hear pros die from liverdamage.
Heart is the problem. And high BP taxes the heart.
So make sure your your BP is ok.
Most efficient way is to not stop NO production in your arteries. And best way to do that, is not to trigger insulin all the time.
Best way to that, is eating in a 6 hour window, eat fat n pro before your carbs and in generall, stay low in carbs.

Sent fra min SM-G998B via Tapatalk

LOL abombs, Dbol and superdrol stacks. Just imagine the back pumps, lethargy, headaches and nausea that would give you. I think I'd make it a day before I quit

[charger69]

There should be no problems. Tbol and anavar are not that toxic.
And in worst case, if a sligth damage to the liver. It will heal.
Just do bloods before your next run, so u make sure its GTG.
12 weeks dianabol, superdrol, anadrol is another story at our levels.
But as i said, liverdamage (sligth) isnt your worst enemy.
Its very rare u hear pros die from liverdamage.
Heart is the problem. And high BP taxes the heart.
So make sure your your BP is ok.
Most efficient way is to not stop NO production in your arteries. And best way to do that, is not to trigger insulin all the time.
Best way to that, is eating in a 6 hour window, eat fat n pro before your carbs and in generall, stay low in carbs.

Sent fra min SM-G998B via Tapatalk

Sil- go back to your castle!!! LOL
The body works in weird ways. My thyroid cancer caused atrial fibrillation, which caused enlargement of the heart, which resulted in atrial flutter. Its all connected. My atrial flutter caused a 24 hour average hr of 100 bpm. That includes sleeping. That will tax your heart without high bp.