Crashed e2 or fake primo???

[Bigbadwolf250]

So been doing 250 test 200 primo. Coming off my trt dose of 150mgs. I initially was taking an ai of aromasin 12.5 mgs a week due to I'm a high aromatiser until the primo kicked in. I noticed now though my bp really shot up. Usually around 120/70 although I am on Lisinopril 20 mgs prescribed by my Dr.

My BP has been 150/90 recently though. I do notice when I wake up my ankles do crack so was thinking possibly low e2? Would the primo spike my BP like that? Could I have possibly just got eq or something else and my primo is fake.

Away and unable to get bloods till a few weeks so wasn't sure what to do. Drop the primo completely? Cut it in half? Switch to mast? Or just go back to cruise dose?

[Cylon357]

So been doing 250 test 200 primo. Coming off my trt dose of 150mgs. I initially was taking an ai of aromasin 12.5 mgs a week due to I'm a high aromatiser until the primo kicked in. I noticed now though my bp really shot up. Usually around 120/70 although I am on Lisinopril 20 mgs prescribed by my Dr.

My BP has been 150/90 recently though. I do notice when I wake up my ankles do crack so was thinking possibly low e2? Would the primo spike my BP like that? Could I have possibly just got eq or something else and my primo is fake.

Away and unable to get bloods till a few weeks so wasn't sure what to do. Drop the primo completely? Cut it in half? Switch to mast? Or just go back to cruise dose?

You changed 3 things by my count.

1 raised test dose
2 added primo
3 dropped your ai

Without blood work, this makes it difficult to determine which, if any, of these things are at fault.

How long after you made the changes did you start seeing issues?

[Bigbadwolf250]

You changed 3 things by my count.

1 raised test dose
2 added primo
3 dropped your ai

Without blood work, this makes it difficult to determine which, if any, of these things are at fault.

How long after you made the changes did you start seeing issues?

Didn't drop ai but added ai. Don't use one on my trt. Hard to say I took BP before I started and it was perfect then took it starting last week and noticed it spiked

[Cylon357]

Didn't drop ai but added ai. Don't use one on my trt. Hard to say I took BP before I started and it was perfect then took it starting last week and noticed it spiked

I would suspect that you have in fact crashed your estrogen. Primo has ai abilities and the addition of a separate ai was likely too much.

You need to pull some blood work, particularly a CBC. Your hematocrit and / or RBC may be elevated due to the additional steroids at play.

[Bigbadwolf250]

I would suspect that you have in fact crashed your estrogen. Primo has ai abilities and the addition of a separate ai was likely too much.

You need to pull some blood work, particularly a CBC. Your hematocrit and / or RBC may be elevated due to the additional steroids at play.

Thanks man what would you suggest? Keep everything the same but just drop the ai obviously. Lower the primo dose? Drop the primo completely? Switch to mast?

Can't get bloods till 2 weeks due to me being away

[Honkey_Kong]

Thanks man what would you suggest? Keep everything the same but just drop the ai obviously. Lower the primo dose? Drop the primo completely? Switch to mast?

Can't get bloods till 2 weeks due to me being away

Why did you take the AI in the first place? Were you having sides? How long is this cycle for? How long have you been on this? And without bloodwork, it's going to be hard to see what is going on. Do you have mast on hand that you can switch to?

Maybe you should just go back to taking your TRT medicine and rethink this whole cycling thing? Your dosages of test and primo are both pretty low for a cycle.

And by the way having your BP in the 150/90 range isn't that bad. The systolic BP is only 150 and that isn't very high. Plus it's the diastolic BP that is really important and yours in in the 90s. running a little high on the BP for a few weeks isn't going to matter much in the grand scheme of things. You're not so high that I'd think you're at a super risk of having a stroke or heart attack in the short term and if your BP goes back to normal at the end of your cycle when you stop taking the gear, you don't really have to worry about long-term damage from it. And you are taking an ace inhibitor already.

If you're really concerned, maybe go see an urgent care and have them up your BP meds?

I do find it hard to believe that you can't get bloods done because you're "away." You can bring your gear and needles with you and you have a place to workout at, but you can't find a place to get blood drawn at?

[Cuz]

250mg of primo seems like a waste of time to me, but to each their own I guees. I advocate low dose cycling for health reasons but primo is a pretty much weak compound. I think starting at 400mg would be a better approach and keeping your testosterone at trt script levels 100-200 weekly.

It is well within reason that AAS increases your BP, just monitor it. I cycle frequently so one day I went to the dr on cycle with elevated bp and got a script med for it just to be safe and I take that all the time now also with a built in but safe diuretic. Long term high blood pressure is a kidney killer, when people take gear alot of inexperience people which id say 90% are, neglect kidneys and just roll on. Dont do this.

Also, if you dont know whats going on its best to have bloods pulled immediately I believe which was already stated as well. Idk about you but when i crash my estrogen im stuck with a limp dick and a very bitchy attitude, something you don’t want happening probably dont even need one honestly but again blood work

[Bigbadwolf250]

Why did you take the AI in the first place? Were you having sides? How long is this cycle for? How long have you been on this? And without bloodwork, it's going to be hard to see what is going on. Do you have mast on hand that you can switch to?

Maybe you should just go back to taking your TRT medicine and rethink this whole cycling thing? Your dosages of test and primo are both pretty low for a cycle.

And by the way having your BP in the 150/90 range isn't that bad. The systolic BP is only 150 and that isn't very high. Plus it's the diastolic BP that is really important and yours in in the 90s. running a little high on the BP for a few weeks isn't going to matter much in the grand scheme of things. You're not so high that I'd think you're at a super risk of having a stroke or heart attack in the short term and if your BP goes back to normal at the end of your cycle when you stop taking the gear, you don't really have to worry about long-term damage from it. And you are taking an ace inhibitor already.

If you're really concerned, maybe go see an urgent care and have them up your BP meds?

I do find it hard to believe that you can't get bloods done because you're "away." You can bring your gear and needles with you and you have a place to workout at, but you can't find a place to get blood drawn at?

Anything over 175 mgs of test I usually need an ai. And that's from years of blood work showing that. So figured itd take a few weeks for the primo to kick in so figured I would take some. This will be week 4.

[Bigbadwolf250]

250mg of primo seems like a waste of time to me, but to each their own I guees. I advocate low dose cycling for health reasons but primo is a pretty much weak compound. I think starting at 400mg would be a better approach and keeping your testosterone at trt script levels 100-200 weekly.

It is well within reason that AAS increases your BP, just monitor it. I cycle frequently so one day I went to the dr on cycle with elevated bp and got a script med for it just to be safe and I take that all the time now also with a built in but safe diuretic. Long term high blood pressure is a kidney killer, when people take gear alot of inexperience people which id say 90% are, neglect kidneys and just roll on. Dont do this.

Also, if you dont know whats going on its best to have bloods pulled immediately I believe which was already stated as well. Idk about you but when i crash my estrogen im stuck with a limp dick and a very bitchy attitude, something you don’t want happening probably dont even need one honestly but again blood work

Yea these days trying to take a "healthier" approach. Been cycling for 10 years and now I just stay on trt and every summer I'll add a light dose of something usually just for a little bump.

[Bigbadwolf250]

Why did you take the AI in the first place? Were you having sides? How long is this cycle for? How long have you been on this? And without bloodwork, it's going to be hard to see what is going on. Do you have mast on hand that you can switch to?

Maybe you should just go back to taking your TRT medicine and rethink this whole cycling thing? Your dosages of test and primo are both pretty low for a cycle.

And by the way having your BP in the 150/90 range isn't that bad. The systolic BP is only 150 and that isn't very high. Plus it's the diastolic BP that is really important and yours in in the 90s. running a little high on the BP for a few weeks isn't going to matter much in the grand scheme of things. You're not so high that I'd think you're at a super risk of having a stroke or heart attack in the short term and if your BP goes back to normal at the end of your cycle when you stop taking the gear, you don't really have to worry about long-term damage from it. And you are taking an ace inhibitor already.

If you're really concerned, maybe go see an urgent care and have them up your BP meds?

I do find it hard to believe that you can't get bloods done because you're "away." You can bring your gear and needles with you and you have a place to workout at, but you can't find a place to get blood drawn at?

My BP machines are wild at home too. One just said 160/96 and the other is 120/78

[almostgone]

My BP machines are wild at home too. One just said 160/96 and the other is 120/78

If they're auto inflate cuffs, you should have them calibrated. If it's Omron, it may be as simple as the rate at which the cuff bleeds off the air. Also, make sure the cuff on both machines are the same size. If not, that will skew your reading.

One more thing to watch is make sure you consistently stay above the elbow by at least 1/2". The cuff probably has a diagram. Improper placement will give you inaccurate readings.


Edit: ....make sure you are using the proper size cuff as well.

[Cylon357]

Thanks man what would you suggest? Keep everything the same but just drop the ai obviously. Lower the primo dose? Drop the primo completely? Switch to mast?

Can't get bloods till 2 weeks due to me being away

I suggest getting blood work ASAP. If you are in the US, you can order your own blood work and probably have it drawn next day.

Drop the AI for sure. You are probably better off dropping down to trt dose until blood work comes back.

Have you ever used primo?

[Bigbadwolf250]

I suggest getting blood work ASAP. If you are in the US, you can order your own blood work and probably have it drawn next day.

Drop the AI for sure. You are probably better off dropping down to trt dose until blood work comes back.

Have you ever used primo?

No first time

[Bigbadwolf250]

I suggest getting blood work ASAP. If you are in the US, you can order your own blood work and probably have it drawn next day.

Drop the AI for sure. You are probably better off dropping down to trt dose until blood work comes back.

Have you ever used primo?

Thanks man signed up for blood work tmro. Now I was suppose to pin primo yesterday should I pin it before the blood work tmro or should I skip the dose?

[Cylon357]

Dupe

[almostgone]

Thanks man signed up for blood work tmro. Now I was suppose to pin primo yesterday should I pin it before the blood work tmro or should I skip the dose?

Personally, I would keep doing what I have been. No use to change things before blood work, then you have no frame of reference.
It probably won't make much difference, but every time you change something you just blew your frame of reference.
After your blood work is the time to change things.

[Honkey_Kong]

Anything over 175 mgs of test I usually need an ai. And that's from years of blood work showing that. So figured itd take a few weeks for the primo to kick in so figured I would take some. This will be week 4.

You really shouldn't touch an AI unless you're currently having estrogenic sides. Even if in the past you're had problems at low doses of test, your body does change over time. Hell just the frequency you pin yourself will affect your SHBG and by breaking your pins up to 3 doses instead of 2 per week might be just what your body needs to regulate the test better and slow the aromatase of the hormones down.

[Cylon357]

Thanks man signed up for blood work tmro. Now I was suppose to pin primo yesterday should I pin it before the blood work tmro or should I skip the dose?

Personally, I would keep doing what I have been. No use to change things before blood work, then you have no frame of reference.
It probably won't make much difference, but every time you change something you just blew your frame of reference.
After your blood work is the time to change things.

I agree with AG here. It likely won't make any difference if you do the shot now or after blood or wait on bloods to come back. Dealers choice here.

I'm assuming you are pulling estrogen as well. It wasn't explicitly called out for blood work, but should obviously be pulled.

Whatbws your goal with the primo? I ask to help understand what you were trying to do and to help determine if there is a better way to get you there.

[Bigbadwolf250]

I agree with AG here. It likely won't make any difference if you do the shot now or after blood or wait on bloods to come back. Dealers choice here.

I'm assuming you are pulling estrogen as well. It wasn't explicitly called out for blood work, but should obviously be pulled.

Whatbws your goal with the primo? I ask to help understand what you were trying to do and to help determine if there is a better way to get you there.

Mainly just a little boost for the summer hoping to not use an ai. Mainly look full and vascular. Diets already on point was just looking for a little boost to the trt. I ended up pinning it today and now gonna hold off everything until bloods come back. I'm already stressed about pinning it due to the high BP though but wanted everything to stay consistent in the blood work

[almostgone]

Mainly just a little boost for the summer hoping to not use an ai. Mainly look full and vascular. Diets already on point was just looking for a little boost to the trt. I ended up pinning it today and now gonna hold off everything until bloods come back. I'm already stressed about pinning it due to the high BP though but wanted everything to stay consistent in the blood work

I'm confused. Monday on UG** you said donated blood and BP was 158/98 ( no place around where I live will let you donate with BP that high) and your hemoglobin was 19.5 (so it's highly likely your HCT is definitely in the upper 50s).

Then you said you were able to donate at least and now gonna drop everything except your trt. You really need to stick with a plan and see it through. Constantly changing protocols and endless worrying will absolutely fvck your BP.

[Bigbadwolf250]

I'm confused. Monday on UG** you said donated blood and BP was 158/98 ( no place around where I live will let you donate with BP that high) and your hemoglobin was 19.5 (so it's highly likely your HCT is definitely in the upper 50s).

Then you said you were able to donate at least and now gonna drop everything except your trt. You really need to stick with a plan and see it through. Constantly changing protocols and endless worrying will absolutely fvck your BP.

That's correct. I believe the cutoff is 160 systolic and 100 diastolic. I did donate and after hearing the results of rbc and BP I decided to drop everything. What's wrong with that? Seems like the smart decision. Drawing bloods tmro to check everything as well. Seems silly to keep taking more test and primo with those BP numbers

[almostgone]

Seems silly to decide to drop everything on Monday and three days later you're asking should you drop the primo.

Not hate, just seems that you shift plans without ever letting things stabilize.

[Bigbadwolf250]

Seems silly to decide to drop everything on Monday and three days later you're asking should you drop the primo.

Not hate, just seems that you shift plans without ever letting things stabilize.

Oh I see what you mean. Yea getting bloods done tmro so wasn't sure if I should continue the primo in the meantime so I can get a consistent reading of the bloodwork with what I'm taking

[almostgone]

I would grab some serious panels. Don't just do a drive-by for T and E2.
Get your CBC ( pay attention to your HCT and platelet count), CMP-14, and a lipid panel. Throw an eye at your liver enzymes, BUN, creatinine.... everything
All this shit going on in your body has a cost eventually.

[Bigbadwolf250]

I would grab some serious panels. Don't just do a drive-by for T and E2.
Get your CBC ( pay attention to your HCT and platelet count), CMP-14, and a lipid panel. Throw an eye at your liver enzymes, BUN, creatinine.... everything
All this shit going on in your body has a cost eventually.

Thanks man yep got all that already. I'll update when I get the results

[Bigbadwolf250]

Thanks man yep got all that already. I'll update when I get the results

Everything in June before I added stuff was all perfect. The only change was upping the test a bit and the primo. And having a baby haha. So lack of sleep lately for sure

[Honkey_Kong]

Everything in June before I added stuff was all perfect. The only change was upping the test a bit and the primo. And having a baby haha. So lack of sleep lately for sure

There's your problem. Congrats by the way.

[Bigbadwolf250]

There's your problem. Congrats by the way.

Hahah it's been awesome man. For sure life changing and that's what's got me thinking so much about being healthy these days. You think that could spike it that high though.

[Honkey_Kong]

Hahah it's been awesome man. For sure life changing and that's what's got me thinking so much about being healthy these days. You think that could spike it that high though.

Stress and lack of sleep can significantly raise blood pressure. You probably should take an average of many BP readings and rest in your chair for a good 10 minutes before you take the tests.

[Bigbadwolf250]

Stress and lack of sleep can significantly raise blood pressure. You probably should take an average of many BP readings and rest in your chair for a good 10 minutes before you take the tests.

Thanks man. Just got done blood work just waiting for results. Any key things I can look for to tell if I have primo or not? Obviously nothing compares to having it tested but wanted to see if there's any red flags I should look out for on the bloods.

My mast is coming on Monday. Honestly might just swap out the primo with mast. Have ran that time and time again and always feel great on it.

[Cylon357]

Thanks man. Just got done blood work just waiting for results. Any key things I can look for to tell if I have primo or not? Obviously nothing compares to having it tested but wanted to see if there's any red flags I should look out for on the bloods.

My mast is coming on Monday. Honestly might just swap out the primo with mast. Have ran that time and time again and always feel great on it.

At this point, I wouldn't swap anything until you get bloods back. If estrogen is tanked, masteron will only make it worse.

You are bouncing around like a kid cranked up on caffeine and sugar lol!

Just stop. Don't change jack except dropping the AI until bloods come back. An extra week of primo and test won't kill you. When bloods do come in, post the results and we will take a look.

Good luck!

[Bigbadwolf250]

At this point, I wouldn't swap anything until you get bloods back. If estrogen is tanked, masteron will only make it worse.

You are bouncing around like a kid cranked up on caffeine and sugar lol!

Just stop. Don't change jack except dropping the AI until bloods come back. An extra week of primo and test won't kill you. When bloods do come in, post the results and we will take a look.

Good luck!

Thanks man yea I tend to do that haha. Kept everything the same so blood work should show 250 test and 200 primo with no ai. So we'll see what it looks like

[Bigbadwolf250]

At this point, I wouldn't swap anything until you get bloods back. If estrogen is tanked, masteron will only make it worse.

You are bouncing around like a kid cranked up on caffeine and sugar lol!

Just stop. Don't change jack except dropping the AI until bloods come back. An extra week of primo and test won't kill you. When bloods do come in, post the results and we will take a look.

Good luck!

Here's part of the blood work still waiting on some more but figured I'd post what I have.

It may be confusing but the bloodwork from yesterday are the numbers above July 2023. The others are just previous ones.

All looks good just a few concerns. My creatinine and egfr are always like that due to supplementing creatine. When I stop creatine numbers are perfect. I also did cystatin c test to check kidney function and all was perfect. Egfr is just an equation they use with age and creatinine so it's not reliable.

Other thing is my wbc increase which worries me a bit but also having a baby and lack of sleep could maybe cause that?

Let me know what you guys think.

https://imgur.com/gallery/jkS4Pgk

[Cylon357]

Here's part of the blood work still waiting on some more but figured I'd post what I have.

It may be confusing but the bloodwork from yesterday are the numbers above July 2023. The others are just previous ones.

All looks good just a few concerns. My creatinine and egfr are always like that due to supplementing creatine. When I stop creatine numbers are perfect. I also did cystatin c test to check kidney function and all was perfect. Egfr is just an equation they use with age and creatinine so it's not reliable.

Other thing is my wbc increase which worries me a bit but also having a baby and lack of sleep could maybe cause that?

Let me know what you guys think.

https://imgur.com/gallery/jkS4Pgk

Looks like you could stand to donate soon. Your RBC is slightly elevated, and your hemoglobin and hematocrit are bumping top of range. Donating should help with BP, at least in the short run.

The rest of it looks OK to me, by and large, as you have called out your creatinine / egfr.

I wouldn't worry too much about WBC right now as it fluctuates (as you can see from your results). Just make sure to rest well in case you are coming down with something. You probably aren't but better safe than sorry.

[Bigbadwolf250]

Looks like you could stand to donate soon. Your RBC is slightly elevated, and your hemoglobin and hematocrit are bumping top of range. Donating should help with BP, at least in the short run.

The rest of it looks OK to me, by and large, as you have called out your creatinine / egfr.

I wouldn't worry too much about WBC right now as it fluctuates (as you can see from your results). Just make sure to rest well in case you are coming down with something. You probably aren't but better safe than sorry.

Thanks man yea honestly that's the best my rbc has been in years. Been trying to donate regularly and definately helping. Looking back my wbc has been 9.8 a few times before and then dropped down after as well so doesn't seem concerning. I guess we will just wait on the test and e2 levels to see.

[Bigbadwolf250]

Looks like you could stand to donate soon. Your RBC is slightly elevated, and your hemoglobin and hematocrit are bumping top of range. Donating should help with BP, at least in the short run.

The rest of it looks OK to me, by and large, as you have called out your creatinine / egfr.

I wouldn't worry too much about WBC right now as it fluctuates (as you can see from your results). Just make sure to rest well in case you are coming down with something. You probably aren't but better safe than sorry.

Also I know you said I gotta stop switching things up haha. Well my mast p came in from my regular lab. You think I should switch from test 200 primo 200 to test 200 mast 200? Or wait for remaining bloods. Which would provide better gains/look?

[Cylon357]

Also I know you said I gotta stop switching things up haha. Well my mast p came in from my regular lab. You think I should switch from test 200 primo 200 to test 200 mast 200? Or wait for remaining bloods. Which would provide better gains/look?

You have your answer right there in bold.

[Bigbadwolf250]

You have your answer right there in bold.

Haha good point

[almostgone]

Here's part of the blood work still waiting on some more but figured I'd post what I have.

It may be confusing but the bloodwork from yesterday are the numbers above July 2023. The others are just previous ones.

All looks good just a few concerns. My creatinine and egfr are always like that due to supplementing creatine. When I stop creatine numbers are perfect. I also did cystatin c test to check kidney function and all was perfect. Egfr is just an equation they use with age and creatinine so it's not reliable.

Other thing is my wbc increase which worries me a bit but also having a baby and lack of sleep could maybe cause that?

Let me know what you guys think.

https://imgur.com/gallery/jkS4Pgk

Your bloods are about what I predicted if your HGB was 19.5. Apparently the meter at the blood bank is not in calibration or you did a large blood dump.

I don't see a child driving up your WBC, although I'm sure it's stressful.

I DO see a child in the picture as a motivator to step back, drop back to a TRT level dosage, if you are actually on a managed TRT, and not just running around blasting hormones here and there. Get your blood work in line and honestly, learn how to avoid putting yourself in situations like this.

Edit: Not hating, but you have quite a lengthy history of backing yourself into a corner rather regularly. Just a quick look at your post history show a trend.

Look at at your post from just a tad over a month ago (6-2-23)


https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...ml#post7593323

Blast and cruised for years and starting to take a more "health" oriented approach these days. 32 years old. Looking to gain maybe 5 to 10lbs and lean out a bit more this summer. Ran pretty much everything in the past.

Been doing self trt at 150 mgs for a while now. Want to have some fun and run something this summer but not sure what?

Was thinking just increasing test? 300mg? 500mg? What you guys think. Maybe throw var in as a kicker or end it with var? Ostarine?

Any suggestions?

Appreciate the help!

....and 2.5 months before that/3-16-23

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...be-not-me.html

32 years old and been blasting and cruising for like 8 year now. Last few years I no longer blast but basically self trt at 150 mgs test cyp a week. Over those years only sides health related I have are high bp and high red blood count. Red blood count is always stays around 52 to 53% and hemocratic around 17 to 18. even with donating. My blood pressure is controlled now but I am prescribed Lisinopril and metoprolol. Was running around years with high bp and no meds.

Now 32 and starting a family my health is my number one priority. Been having episodes of svt. Have had it since I was 12 but feel like they are more frequent now so going to see a cardiologist and get and echo done. I feel like I am anxious and stressed 24/7 that I'm gonna drop dead of a heart attack or just not wake up one night. I know stress and anxiety can also play a big role on my bp and svt episodes. I guess I just never stressed about it when I was younger but now about to have a kid I want to make sure I'm going to be there. I am getting blood work done from a clinic for a script of trt. But do you guys think I did too much damage.

Should I just drop the test completely. I have not told my doc about my trt. Kind of waiting until I get a script to tell tell her. I tried coming off once and felt miserable before. Overall when I don't stress I feel great though. Just the thought of having a heart attack and me killing myself scares the hell out of me.

Just looking for some advice or healthier ways I can go about this. Thanks!

[Cylon357]

Stress and lack of sleep can significantly raise blood pressure. You probably should take an average of many BP readings and rest in your chair for a good 10 minutes before you take the tests.

Man, so much of this it hurts! Simple stuff is what creeps up on us and can do us in!