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So been on my trt at 160 mgs a week from my clinic. No ai. I will post my labs here. Why is my free test so high? I looked at labs from a year ago on my ugl stuff doing same dose and I had similar total t but my free test was 100 points less. Only thing I added was finasteride for hair loss. Which doesn't seem to be helping actually and making hair worse. Could it be the fin? Can free test make hair loss worse?
https://ibb.co/7SYSvCQ
It is absolutely the finasteride. Think about the various testosterone conversion processes that go in in the body. Well, there are three that we are concerned with here: 5-alpha reduction to DHT, aromatization into estrogen and the conversion to free t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf250
The short version is that if you block one of those, it leaves more available for the others. By blocking the 5-alpha reductase enzyme, you leave more available to convert to free t and also more to convert to estrogen. I don't need to see your bloodwork to know that your estrogen has also gone up (in the absence of an ai at least), or if it hasn't yet, it will. These things are perhaps not intuitive and need a little research to understand, but that is the gist of it.
This is not to say that finasteride is a performance enhancer. For some men, it is just the opposite. Those of us who do not handle bottomed out DHT well curse finasteride. Tread lightly with this drug as you may not fully know how you respond yet. That said, the problems encountered do not come from the fina molecule itself, but from the bottomed out DHT.
What you should know is that there is a potential shedding phase with fina when taken for hair loss. Your doctor SHOULD have been able to tell you that.
Thank you! My estrogen surprisingly seems lower while being on fin as well. My dht without fin was 117. Well above the normal range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
So is the free test causing my hair shedding and oily scalp. I'm debating to stay on fin or drop it?
Re-read the last sentence of my previous response, then if that doesn't provide enough info, google "finasteride shedding"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf250
Thanks brotha. I know fin can increase test values so wasn't sure if that's what was causing my shedding as I feel like it's gotten a lot worse than before I started it. But makes sense if there's a shedding phase. Just hope it doesn't last long. So you suggest staying on? Any proof that fin hinders gains and such?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
Most of the information you will find about finasteride and athletic performance is anecdotal. So proof, no. Individual experience, yes, but you have to track that down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf250
Also, maybe consider that DHT is our primary androgenic hormone.
As far as staying on, that is your call. I had garbage luck with conventional doses, but have since microdosed finasteride (and am currently doing so) at 50mcgs per day. 50 MICROGRAMS is sufficient to cut DHT in half, which is typically enough to help with prostate and probably hair issues. Make your own liquid with 5mg of finasteride and 100ml of 80+ proof alcohol, like vodka or whiskey, to get 50mcg per ml if you want to go that route.
Thanks yea I see a lot of pros use it. Chris bumstead for example and would think he wouldn't use something that would hinder his progression. Also when you say you had no luck do you mean you had sides or it didn't workQuote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
I had all the negative sides. They resolved within 2 or 3 weeks of cessation. Again, those sides were from the bottomed out dht, not the fina molecule itself. I'm presently using 50mcg per day, it keeps my DHT mid to high range. 37 to 55 (15-65 scale), depending on other stuff in the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbadwolf250
The microdosing thing is really interesting. My DHT has been way off, I am past the fina shedding stage having taken fina and Duta at separate intervlas. I was on Duta (.5mg) lately because I didn't have reg access to labs (no health insurance), urinary problems consistent with BPH and acne. I'm now off both and will be moving to 1mg fina (or less now that I think about this post) but I'll miss the protection against acne that Duta provides. I'll try .5mg instead of 1mg and will get my blood tested soon but it would be nice to microdose dutasteride rather than finasteride.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon357
Interestingly, my blood test (Labcorp), while on .5mg duta per day, I saw Total T 794 (221-871) which was higher in range than my Free T 11.4 (6.8-21.5) in its range.
2024 (I'm too paranoid to be precise but it was recent)
Attachment 182982
I have included a couple of images that illustrate the dose response curves of both finasteride and dutatsteride. It doesn't take much of either to get the job done, though microdosing dutasteride might be slightly more challenging. The dutasteride that I have is gel cap form. That is, if you cut open the cap, there is liquid inside. The 5mg fina I have is tablet form, so yeah it has fillers and binders but I can just drop it in 100ml of Wild Turkey 101 and in 24 to 36 hours I have a decent blend. It still has to be shaken up when dosed, but I really think that the finasteride itself blends well and the little bit of particles left are binders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quester
Dutasteride might actually be easier to mix since it is liquid, but my semi-OCD ass would be concerned about getting it ALL out of the gel cap. Plus, dutasteride has a much longer half life than finasteride, and I generally prefer to get these types of drugs in and out of my system ASAP.
Adding, yes, these two images are kind of flip flopped relative to each other in that one goes up, the other goes down, but they show the same type of data.
Attachment 182983
Attachment 182984
Nice, I appreciate this! Another question, I'm guessing the responses to be assesed in the areas where the DHT is produced? Fina-hair folicles and prostate; duta-hair, prostate and skin, or is this blood. Also, weird that conversion to DHT is happening in skin, hair follicle and prostate but the positive effects we care about, in a positive way, is likely happening in the brain. Wonder if the conversion is the bad part rather than the molecule or what else it is that makes love-handled, bald, zit-covered, frequent-pissers?
I operate under the assumption that DHT is DHT, regardless of where the actual 5-alpha reductase takes place. Once it is in the blood stream, it will go where it goes: hair follicles, prostate, etc, and have all the expected effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quester
Thus you can likely infer, though I will make my belief explicit for clarity: the molecule itself and how we respond to it is the issue, not where the reductase took place. But, not all DHT is bad. For example, among other things, it can increase aggression and assertiveness, and can help with gynecomastia (dht cream used to be the go to for this).
Of all the hormones in our body, it seems to me that DHT is the one that is the most maligned and also the most subject to individual response. Sometimes you have to be your own lab rat...
DHT also promotes calm in middle-age, and older. Likely it has a variable effect, in many areas, at different doses. It seems to have earned both neg and pos reputation. I'm not sure if the skin, prostate and hair suffer because the reductase happens there or because of exposure to systematic DHT. I'll look into it and the pos benefits as well. I'll get back to this or another thread with a physiological, rather than a TRT advertisement type answer. I used to know stuff and made informed decisions in the past, maybe the wrong ones, but I don't retain things I don't use.
Appreciate it!