Heart and hair safe summer cycle?

**Fireguy1990** · 03-25-2024, 07:30 PM

Haven't blasted in a while just been doing my trt of 150 mgs. Looking for a lean bulk this summer and overall just look good. Have a few options. My main concern is hairloss and heart health. Currently on finasteride 1 mg but might drop it soon.

Option 1. Bump test to 300 mg.

Option 2. Test and low dose anavar .

Option 3. Test and low dose npp. Drop fin

Option 4. Test and mk 677?

What you guys think is the best?

**Cuz** · 03-25-2024, 07:45 PM

My vote would be a test increase and var cycle. I dont really think you will see a “lean bulk” with anything mention maybe rather a recomp. But thats just me. These days, if i seen a 5 lb LBM increase out of a cycle Id be ecstatic…

**Fireguy1990** · 03-25-2024, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Cuz

My vote would be a test increase and var cycle. I dont really think you will see a “lean bulk” with anything mention maybe rather a recomp. But thats just me. These days, if i seen a 5 lb LBM increase out of a cycle Id be ecstatic…

Thanks man. Yea recomp is prob more like it. Isn't var pretty harsh on the hair though. I can keep taking fin with that too correct? Maybe run it 4 to 6 weeks?

**Cuz** · 03-26-2024, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Fireguy1990

Thanks man. Yea recomp is prob more like it. Isn't var pretty harsh on the hair though. I can keep taking fin with that too correct? Maybe run it 4 to 6 weeks?

Yeah its a dht derivative so it can be harsh on the hair. Your genetics will determine how harsh it actuallt is on the hair thinning. As far as the fina Ive never taken it. I donate blood and its on the list to not be taking so Ive just never messed with it. I do minoxidil.

**Fireguy1990** · 03-26-2024, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Cuz

Yeah its a dht derivative so it can be harsh on the hair. Your genetics will determine how harsh it actuallt is on the hair thinning. As far as the fina Ive never taken it. I donate blood and its on the list to not be taking so Ive just never messed with it. I do minoxidil.

Thanks man. As far as dht blood levels. My dht is about double the normal range on trt. Is that dangerous it being that high long term in regards to prostate health. Any other ways to lower it without finasteride

**kelkel** · 03-26-2024, 08:14 AM

DHT derivatives such as var, primo, mast do not convert to dht as they don't interact with the 5AR enzyme and they don't aromatise. So, watch your test and you should be fine. BTW, Fina at 1mg works at about a 70% rate of a full 5 mg dose.

**Fireguy1990** · 03-26-2024, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

DHT derivatives such as var, primo, mast do not convert to dht as they don't interact with the 5AR enzyme and they don't aromatise. So, watch your test and you should be fine. BTW, Fina at 1mg works at about a 70% rate of a full 5 mg dose.

Is fin worth it? Noticed my dht is double the normal range on my trt. Not sure if that's dangerous for it to be too high?

**kelkel** · 03-26-2024, 11:06 AM

Well, I've been on it for at least 10 years for BPH. What caused the BPH? Unknown. That being said, it's not something to use and should be avoided unless absolutely needed. Your dose is basically a hair loss dose. Cycles should simply be planned to avoid issues by keeping test lower and using other drugs such as I mentioned above that won't effect E2 or DHT. Elevated DHT on it's own is not really an issue. There has to be some type of precursor to cause an issue. There's a study I've seen where they purposely elevated men's dht levels to about 10 times normal for two years with zero issues. If I can find it again I'll post it.

Here's an excerpt from one study:

Nonetheless, the preponderance of available clinical data indicates that modest elevations in circulating levels of DHT in response to androgen therapy should not be of concern in clinical practice. Elevated DHT has not been associated with increased risk of prostate disease (e.g., cancer or benign hyperplasia) nor does it appear to have any systemic effects on cardiovascular disease safety parameters (including increased risk of polycythemia) beyond those commonly observed with available T preparations. Well-controlled, long-term studies of transdermal DHT preparations have failed to identify safety signals unique to markedly elevated circulating DHT concentrations or signals materially different from T.

**Fireguy1990** · 03-26-2024, 12:00 PM

Interesting thanks man. My dht level on trt of 160 mgs is 120 the quest normal range says 0-65. So should I be concerned about that? Maybe drop test to 140 or 150 ?

**Cuz** · 03-26-2024, 02:56 PM

My hair was fine for years up until I tried Mast , var, and staying on tren with small breaks in between. Could have just been an age thing not sure. Who knows. I know it went quick tho. It really hates tren for some reason im currently on about 100 migs and trt dose. My hair comes out in handfuls in the shower now.

If youre able to find a hair and heart friendly cycle let me know as I have not.

**Honkey_Kong** · 03-26-2024, 07:01 PM

NPP and var are about as mild as it gets in terms of hair loss (supposing you don't take npp with finasteride). Your biggest threat is the 300mg of test (which at that dose probably isn't going to be that bad).

Now as far as heart health goes all of them are going to have an effect on your "heart health." Again var and npp are not going to be as much of a threat as the test is. But everybody is different and some compounds can make drastic effects on your BP and lipid profiles than others would. That being said it's one thing if you permanently have high BP and high LDL/low HDL. It's another thing if you're only running the gear for like 6-8 weeks, come off of it and your cholesterol and BP go back to normal. Heart disease isn't something that comes on quick and kills you just as fast. It's a long-term problem that takes years to really see negative effects.

What I would suggest is that instead of doubling up on your TRT test, take your regular TRT dose like normal and take test prop (in addition) with the same dosing protocol as the NPP (or by itself if you're not doing npp) That way you don't have to wait 4-5 weeks to even notice a bump in test.

**Honkey_Kong** · 03-26-2024, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Fireguy1990

Interesting thanks man. My dht level on trt of 160 mgs is 120 the quest normal range says 0-65. So should I be concerned about that? Maybe drop test to 140 or 150 ?

What do your free and total test levels look like. And what is your SHBG at? And how often do you dose your test? 1x per week? 2x? I know some TRT clinics that have their patients dose every other week at the clinic.

**Fireguy1990** · 03-26-2024, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

What do your free and total test levels look like. And what is your SHBG at? And how often do you dose your test? 1x per week? 2x? I know some TRT clinics that have their patients dose every other week at the clinic.

Here's my most recent labs on the trt and fin

**Honkey_Kong** · 03-27-2024, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Fireguy1990

Here's my most recent labs on the trt and fin

I would consider trying to split your current trt dose in to 2 or 3 shots per week. It'll cause to some extent your body to release more SHGB (and it looks like you could raise it a little and be alright). That would infact bind more of that DHT in your system (along with some estrogen) and help you tolerate higher blood levels of DHT (dht has a 5 times stronger affinity to bind with shbg). But I think we're a little past the point of your thread here though.

**Fireguy1990** · 03-27-2024, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

I would consider trying to split your current trt dose in to 2 or 3 shots per week. It'll cause to some extent your body to release more SHGB (and it looks like you could raise it a little and be alright). That would infact bind more of that DHT in your system (along with some estrogen) and help you tolerate higher blood levels of DHT (dht has a 5 times stronger affinity to bind with shbg). But I think we're a little past the point of your thread here though.

Thanks man. Currently do two injections a week. So guess I could try to do 3.

**JTP$** · 04-20-2024, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Fireguy1990

Haven't blasted in a while just been doing my trt of 150 mgs. Looking for a lean bulk this summer and overall just look good. Have a few options. My main concern is hairloss and heart health. Currently on finasteride 1 mg but might drop it soon.

Option 1. Bump test to 300 mg.

Option 2. Test and low dose anavar .

Option 3. Test and low dose npp. Drop fin

Option 4. Test and mk 677?

What you guys think is the best?

test and anavar both can potentially be harsh on hair, & nandrolone is supposedly much less so. but on the other hand nandrolone is bad for your heart.

**956Vette** · 04-22-2024, 09:53 AM

Drop test and fina, see how far you can take nandrolone only...is the advice I would've given my younger self fighting mpb....

**JTP$** · 04-23-2024, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by 956Vette

Drop test and fina, see how far you can take nandrolone only...is the advice I would've given my younger self fighting mpb....

ive never tried running nandrolone only, i remember back in the day that was considered guaranteed ED.

test and nandrolone together works pretty good, especially with aromasin , caber and some dbol .

**powerliftmike** · 04-29-2024, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Fireguy1990

Haven't blasted in a while just been doing my trt of 150 mgs. Looking for a lean bulk this summer and overall just look good. Have a few options. My main concern is hairloss and heart health. Currently on finasteride 1 mg but might drop it soon.

Option 1. Bump test to 300 mg.

Option 2. Test and low dose anavar .

Option 3. Test and low dose npp. Drop fin

Option 4. Test and mk 677?

What you guys think is the best?

Do you have a pre-existing heart condition? Do you have baseline labs, ekg, or echo? Hx of hypertension? Not a fan of finasteride and other 5alpha drugs, particularly for cosmetic use as a hairloss preventative; elevated prevalence of high grade prostatic cancers and other side effects. I understand hair is of greatly varying importance to people. Increasing test (option 1) seems the most conservative, although unsure of the profile of mk 677 [option 4]; I have yet to try it or do much reading on it. Anavar/option 2 likely the worst option here.