Please critique first cycle in 10 years. Test prop + Primo + S4 + Cardarine

[joshh]

Hi guys,

It has been nearly 10 years since my first and only Test-E cycle. Would love some feedback on an upcoming cycle.

33 y/o, 5ft8, 160lbs, ~15%bf

I’m going for a fit, lean and athletic build so wanting to put on lean hard muscle only, with no water retention/bloating, while still leaning out. Essentially I’m wanting to keep a natural looking physique and not enhanced.

From my research, Test Prop + Primo + S4 (Andarine) + Cardarine should help me achieve my goals. I was considering Winstrol instead of S4, however I read it will dry you out severely and can look very unnatural, considering that I’m already naturally quite vascular.

As for diet, I’m on a strict ketogenic diet and have been for over 12 months. I train 4 consecutive days then have 2 consecutive rest days, then repeat. On my training days I eat at maintenance calories consuming 225g protein and the rest of calories come from healthy fats. On my 2 rest days I fast and only consume water, EAA’s and black coffee. I will continue this during the cycle.

This is what I’m thinking for a 10 week cycle:

Weeks 1-10 100mg Test-P EOD (350mg/week)
Weeks 1-10 100mg Primo EOD (350mg/week)
Weeks 1-10 20mg Andarine (S4) ED
Weeks 4-10 20mg Cardarine ED
Weeks 1-13 Aromasin 12.5mg ED (25mg ED if E2 is high)
Weeks 1-13 250IU HCG Twice Weekly
Weeks 14-15 50mg Clomid and 40mg Nolvadex ED
Weeks 16-17 25mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex ED

Another thing I could do is front load Test-P and Primo during weeks 1 & 2 - 200mg EOD (700mg/week). Would this be recommended?

I’ve also read that an AI might not be needed with a 1:1 ratio of Prop and Primo, and in some cases I might need to up the Prop to bring E2 levels back up. Apparently Primo can blunt E2 levels quite a bit?

How does this cycle look? Any alterations required?

Thanks!

[Cylon357]

Hi guys,

It has been nearly 10 years since my first and only Test-E cycle. Would love some feedback on an upcoming cycle.

33 y/o, 5ft8, 160lbs, ~15%bf

I?m going for a fit, lean and athletic build so wanting to put on lean hard muscle only, with no water retention/bloating, while still leaning out. Essentially I?m wanting to keep a natural looking physique and not enhanced.

From my research, Test Prop + Primo + S4 (Andarine) + Cardarine should help me achieve my goals. I was considering Winstrol instead of S4, however I read it will dry you out severely and can look very unnatural, considering that I?m already naturally quite vascular.

As for diet, I?m on a strict ketogenic diet and have been for over 12 months. I train 4 consecutive days then have 2 consecutive rest days, then repeat. On my training days I eat at maintenance calories consuming 225g protein and the rest of calories come from healthy fats. On my 2 rest days I fast and only consume water, EAA?s and black coffee. I will continue this during the cycle.

This is what I?m thinking for a 10 week cycle:

Weeks 1-10 100mg Test-P EOD (350mg/week)
Weeks 1-10 100mg Primo EOD (350mg/week)
Weeks 1-10 20mg Andarine (S4) ED
Weeks 4-10 20mg Cardarine ED
Weeks 1-13 Aromasin 12.5mg ED (25mg ED if E2 is high)
Weeks 1-13 250IU HCG Twice Weekly
Weeks 14-15 50mg Clomid and 40mg Nolvadex ED
Weeks 16-17 25mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex ED

Another thing I could do is front load Test-P and Primo during weeks 1 & 2 - 200mg EOD (700mg/week). Would this be recommended?

I?ve also read that an AI might not be needed with a 1:1 ratio of Prop and Primo, and in some cases I might need to up the Prop to bring E2 levels back up. Apparently Primo can blunt E2 levels quite a bit?

How does this cycle look? Any alterations required?

Thanks!

Two questions right off...

1 - Why are you using S4? Is there not a steroid that will fill the same role?

2 - How is clomid even a word anymore in the PED arena? The drug you are looking for is enclomiphene.

You are correct in your thinking: you will almost certainly not need an AI with 1 to 1 test to primo. Knowing this, I have to ask: why are you planning on both primo and an AI? That will almost certainly be overkill.

[joshh]

Two questions right off...

1 - Why are you using S4? Is there not a steroid that will fill the same role?

2 - How is clomid even a word anymore in the PED arena? The drug you are looking for is enclomiphene.

You are correct in your thinking: you will almost certainly not need an AI with 1 to 1 test to primo. Knowing this, I have to ask: why are you planning on both primo and an AI? That will almost certainly be overkill.

1. Being a first cycle in many years and S4 being mild, I was thinking the side effect to reward ratio would be good for my goals in lean gains. Out of curiosity, what would you suggest to replace S4 with? As I said above, I was considering Winstrol however it didn’t seem to align with my goals.

2. Unfortunately my supplier doesn’t have Enclomiphene, only Clomid.

Now knowing what I know about Primo E2 suppression, I’ll probably run without an AI and get bloods done mid-cycle to see how my levels are looking.

[almostgone]

Two questions right off...

1 - Why are you using S4? Is there not a steroid that will fill the same role?

2 - How is clomid even a word anymore in the PED arena? The drug you are looking for is enclomiphene.

You are correct in your thinking: you will almost certainly not need an AI with 1 to 1 test to primo. Knowing this, I have to ask: why are you planning on both primo and an AI? That will almost certainly be overkill.

[Cylon357]

1. Being a first cycle in many years and S4 being mild, I was thinking the side effect to reward ratio would be good for my goals in lean gains. Out of curiosity, what would you suggest to replace S4 with? As I said above, I was considering Winstrol however it didn?t seem to align with my goals.

2. Unfortunately my supplier doesn?t have Enclomiphene, only Clomid.

Now knowing what I know about Primo E2 suppression, I?ll probably run without an AI and get bloods done mid-cycle to see how my levels are looking.

I'm not totally anti-SARMs, they simply lack the history of most AAS. That said, with a goal of a "fit, lean and athletic build", winstrol doesn't seem like a bad choice, though it might be a bit much with primo in play. Personally, I would say your best choice might be "nothing at all". By that I mean, simply run a test and primo cycle with the cardarine. I am assuming you are aware of the cancer concerns with cardarine, if not read up and make an informed decision on its use. I have used and like cardarine, but found 5mg per day to be sufficient and likely of zero risk.

If your supplier can't get their hands on enclomiphene, you simply need another supplier. This is not 2021, or heck, even 2023. Enclomiphene is readily available all over the web. Though we do not do sources here, and no, I will not DM one, you can read the enclomiphene sticky in the HRT sub. There are no URLs or contact info listed, but you can easily tell what is what with some Google Fu.

https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...formation.html

[joshh]

I'm not totally anti-SARMs, they simply lack the history of most AAS. That said, with a goal of a "fit, lean and athletic build", winstrol doesn't seem like a bad choice, though it might be a bit much with primo in play. Personally, I would say your best choice might be "nothing at all". By that I mean, simply run a test and primo cycle with the cardarine. I am assuming you are aware of the cancer concerns with cardarine, if not read up and make an informed decision on its use. I have used and like cardarine, but found 5mg per day to be sufficient and likely of zero risk.

If your supplier can't get their hands on enclomiphene, you simply need another supplier. This is not 2021, or heck, even 2023. Enclomiphene is readily available all over the web. Though we do not do sources here, and no, I will not DM one, you can read the enclomiphene sticky in the HRT sub. There are no URLs or contact info listed, but you can easily tell what is what with some Google Fu.

https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...formation.html

What do you think of pairing Turinabol with Test and Primo, instead of S4? From what I’ve read it’s somewhere in the middle ground of S4 and Winstrol, which is more aligned with my goals.

I will try and get my hands on some Enclomiphene to use instead of Clomid

[Cylon357]

What do you think of pairing Turinabol with Test and Primo, instead of S4? From what I?ve read it?s somewhere in the middle ground of S4 and Winstrol, which is more aligned with my goals.

I will try and get my hands on some Enclomiphene to use instead of Clomid

Tbol always gives me acid reflux, even at low doses.

There is no "try" to get enclomiphene. If you want it, it is readily available.

[joshh]

Tbol always gives me acid reflux, even at low doses.

There is no "try" to get enclomiphene. If you want it, it is readily available.

The issue is I don’t want to use UGL or research chem grade. Everything I source is either pharma grade or prescription, however I should be able to get a prescription for Enclomiphene