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? ummm WTF is your question? don't mean to be an asshole or ignorant... but what is HRT... and surely you can make gains all yr around if you use the Flux Capacitor! It's the only way you can do Test 12 months out of the year.
HRT Hormone Replacement Therapy?
ahhhhh, okey dokey, makes sense now...well then, hormone replacement therapy..... i am assuming that your are replacing testosterone, and a normal body produces 75 mg/wk.... so how much do you want to take... and NO you can't make gains all year around. and here's why....excessive test levels throw of blood lipids and BP. Suppose you say OK, well, I'm gonna let my body utililize 300 mg/wk, opposed to 75mg/wk... in your case since your on HRT....you go to the doc... he says Holy Dukes 'a Hazzard Boss Man, you got to cutz yo' test down.. so's you lose a little of what you've gained during your 300mg/wk stint.... once everything is normal, you bump it back up,, go back to the dr....blah blah blah.... you go in circles...
If I'm wrong please correct me, but I believe that he will be going through the same things that normall users will.....being he will have to cycle high/low dosages
cycling test year round (inbetween cycles as bridging) sounds and feels like a great idea. Matenence dosadge of one shot a week of 400 mg of t-eth or less/more. My question to add to this is if ur on an androgen for 12 months a year leading to multiple years, can and will ur hpta system ever be able to jump-start back up?? Most bodybuilders are on 24-7 all year round and bridge with lowered test so does anyone have a solid answer to this?
i have heard a few guys doing this. you will not make constant gains year round, but you will also not lose gains. like tbulldog was saying you will be going in cycles(not circles). you can bump your dosages up to 500-600mg for 10-12 weeks, and then come down to a mere 200mg per week and keep most of your hard earned gains. there will never be a big crash. but from what i read you should definately keep your pct,s on hand. especially nolva and clomid. and you should be thinking of hcg in the middle and at the end of the mass phases. this will help keep the boys up to size. and you might want to think about taking on a second wife, one wife might not be able to handle the new work load.( haha ) good luck :rambo:
If you eat well, work out well and sleep well while on HRT, you will grow constantly. When you compare yourself to people not on HRT, you will find you will be growing much faster than they. Low doses cycles (200mg-300mg of testosterone) have been well discussed/debated on this board. If you want to learn more, do a search using "low dose" as search criteria. You can also use my scree name as search criteria since I have posted a lot on this subjec.
200mg per week of a long lasting ester of testosterone such as cypionate or enanthate, is actually twice the amount a normally functioning male manufactures. So, again, YES--you will grow on HRT.
Doses of HRT can be as low as 100mg ever OTHER week. Doctors (who have taken time to learn about HRT) have found that prescribing test everother week causes a spike-and-drop effect, where testosterone levels spike after the initial shot, then drop off (decline) for two weeks. During the drop off periods, patients can become depressed, irratable, lethargic, etc. Some have found that the spike-and-drop effect can cause some patients major depression episodes or mood disorders.
As a result of the above findings, doctors have begun to prescirbe 100-200mg per week to keep the testosterone levels more consistant throughout each week. Many doctors know the advantages of 200mg per week and some tend to just prescibe the full 200mg per week.
You will definitely grow. Doctors generally do not get involved in "cycling" patients on and off HRT.
very good article. i was on another board recently and this was discussed for a few days. and almost all the guys on prescription test. said the same thing. they said they did not constantly make gains. they said they were upping doses( i forgot how long) and then coming back down to 200mg a week till the next "phase". they did say that they noticed they did not crash, and they basically only lost water, and not any hard earned quality weight. if you think about it rationally, it is impossible to make constant gains. you have to reach a plateau. you could not stay on test for two or three years, and just keep growing.and almost all of them said they did post cycle therapy when they dropped from the higher doses back down to the maintenance dose of 200mg per. and they said that they were using hcg in the middle of the high cycle and then right at the end of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
Of course you can make gains year round on Test. You can make gains year round without being on any AAS what would possibly make people think that you couldn't while on test. Fear it becomes increasingly harder to restart natural test functions but in most cases you can function normally if you are willing to take the time and do the necessary things in order to get HPTA function working again. The older you get the harder this gets.
Rickson did you ever figure out that long term cycle recovery (for a year) program? I got about 7 more months on so there is no rush, was just curious about your ideas.
i'm 48 years old. my balls quit making enough testosterone to have sex. i went to a doctor, then self medicated. how long can i do test before the gains stop? my balls shut down before i ever did a cycle. i'm doing 500 mg of test enan a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by FEAR.COM
what's the flux capacitor?
thanks
Rickson you beat me to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickson
I can't believe how deeply trenched this myth of your body getting used to steroids and no longer growing.
As Rickson said: if you lift steadily without steroids your whole life, you will constantly grow. If you lift steadily with steroids your whole life, you will constantly grow. Why would you stop growing??
there has be be a point where you will stop growing. no matter how much AS. you use, everybody has a genetic potential. no matter what you take you will not go beyond what you body will allow. to tell someone that they will just keep growing is foolish. you will not grow for ten years if you take test for ten years. if :unsure: that was the case why wouldn't everybody who does gear just do that. just take 200 mg of test per week and you will never stop getting bigger. sorry bro's i am new here but i am not new to the game or the gear. it does not work that way.
I think you do grow constantly...year round. You just may not be gaining in terms of pounds (like with higher test levels), but ounces.
Sound logical?
D
I have grown for the last ten years. It is true that there is a point where your body cant absorb enough nutrients to stop it from going catabolic but unless this guy is going for his sixth Olympia title I don't think it is real relavent to this discussion. His question was can he make gains being on test year round and the answer is yes. Will he need to up his dosages eventually as he reaches and passes his genetic potential. Of course. Will his gains slow as he continues towards and past his genetic potential. Of course. Does that mean that being on test year round will stop him from being able to grow. No.
Legend,Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
There's a lot more to growing than just taking steroids. If you are not maximizing every point of your rest, workout, and nutrition, it is doubtful that you'll ever hit a point where you will stop growing.
The reason why many people aren't as large as they could be after doing AS for years is almost sigularly due to the fact that they have not put enough emphasis on the correct combination of sleep, nutrition and working out (nutrition usually being the main factor).
Legend heres the deal. I myself am on 200mgs of test depot once a week for HRT. My endocrinologist checks my blood levels every four months to make surre my lipids,liver values,sugar levels,test levels and such are maintaining normality.
Therefore I cycle for ten weeks with say 800mgs of test ethenate and 400mgs of eq, then go off for 6 weks and get my blood work done so the doc doesnt know I'm juicing.
200MGS once per week will help some for a little while, but dont expect trememdous gains because its not gonna happen.
Thats how I DO IT!
There certainly has been some differences of opinion in this thread!
mr. b, your preaching to the choir here my friend. this is what i have been saying.eventually you will reach a point where you can not go beyond. i don't care who you are, or how much you eat and sleep, you will stop at some point. period. will you feel better... of course, who wouldn't love to put on 25lbs and then maintain it all year long. but does that mean that everytime you check your going to be bigger... no way. if your still growing on hrt, that only means you have not reached your full potential yet. but eventually you will, and no amount of gear is going to get you beyond that point. you may bloat up, and think your getting bigger, but when the bloat goes you will realize you are not. i am not flaming anyone, and i am not knocking anyone. this is a question that has been going on for years and years, and you will always have different answers from different people. i gave my opinion( supported by years of research and facts) and i stick to it. i am for the first time ever planning on staying on test all year after this cycle is complete. not because i think i will keep growing, but for the simple fact that i would like to maintain my hard earned gains. and hopefully avoid the post cycle depression and anxietys. this is a discussion board and it seems to have alot of very knowledgable people. a good mix when discussing AS. i just left a board where i would of had twenty morons cussing and yelling by now. it is nice to be around a better educated and obviuosly more experienced group. kudos to the board, and my new home. thanks :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.BICEPS
1st, let me say i'm not on hrt.
however, i have been on over a year(60 weeks), cycling between high and low doses.
when i started, i gained almost immediately(of course). when i dropped the dosages, i maintained, and still grew slightly. when i upped the doses again, i started growing again. and the same thing happened in the 2nd lowered phase. i think you do keep growing, even though your doses are reduced.
granted, i'm not going to stay on, or even think about hrt as of now, but a year+ is still a year+, and this should have some merit towards this discussion.
i also want to add that like bask said, diet, rest, and training play a huge role in whether you continue to advance.
for what its worth..........
peace I4L
this is a very interesting topic. i would like to bump it back to the top and keep it going for a while.
For those of you who think the body will stop growing while on HRT, I have two questions for you... (1) "If a 30 year old man starts taking 200mg per week of test cypionate, at what age will he STOP growing larger muscle if he never increases his dose?" (2)"If an 18 year old starts lifting weights and never uses steroids, at what age does he stop growing larger muscle?" If you cannot pin-point a specific age for these questions, then plese specify the reason or factor which causes them to stop growing and give an APPROXIMATE age for both.
I have not debating this topic here with much intensity, because this has been discussed in so many other threads. In this thread the same arguement has been presented in a slightly different way. There are three points to consider:
POINT #1 Regarding dose:
A person on 200mg per week of a long lasting testosterone ester will not grow fast, but he will grow.
POINT #2 Regarding stress on the body:
As long as you continue to put stress on the human body, feed it and rest it properly, the body will continue to adapt, which--as far as lifting is concerned--means larger muscles and more strength. These gains (while using only 200mg per week of testosterone--HRT), will not be the large gains of 25 lbs that one gets with huge 10-week cycles UNLESS that person works his butt off almost perfectly (on 200mg ew).
The body is made to adapt to increasing stress (muscle-wise), as long as it is given proper nutrition. The growth may not be as pronounced as those using steroids and HGH, but it will be constant.
For those of you saying the body will eventually/suddenly stop growing, you might be thinking that the body wont keep putting on 25 lbs every 10 weeks--If that's what you mean, then I agree. But if you mean that the body will suddenly stop growing, then I will continue to disagree.
The average person on these message boards is NO WHERE NEAR and probably will never get anywhere near his/her maximum potential, so it is dobtful that one will stop growing because they've reached thier potential.
Point #3 Regarding nutrition:
You have to remember there are other factors that limit a person's growth besides the amount of steroids they use. I can't tell you how many people I speak to think they are eating 4000 calories per day. When we've taken the time to go over a typical day of eating, they fall terribly below what they thought they were taking in. Consuming 4000/5000 CLEAN calories per day is a daunting task. People stop growing and never think to examine thier diet more closely than gussing about calories.
I see some people post a picture after using a heavy amount of steroids and their bodies have not changed much. It's NOT because their body "got used to" the doses of steriods after one or two cycles, and it's CERTAINLY not because the body reached its muscular potential. It's almost definitely because they didn't eat right.
What i meant was how long could i do a 500 mg test cycle before the gains stopped.
the anabolic recepters may become saturated.
the sex hormone binding globulin may soak up the extra test.
someone posted that test doesn't quit working after 12 weeks like deca. that your anabolic receptors don't get used to it.
thank you for your replies
ok very good points, now i have a question for you guys. lets say you stayed at 200mg per week for 1 year, now you decide that it is time to stop.for what ever reason. how do you go about stopping without losing the so called gains? how would your pct's workout for you. when would you take them, and for how long? being on test for that long you definately could not just stop, or you would have a big crash. and you would lose some serious size and weight.also do you have to keep cycling all year long, you know say every ten weeks do you have to do a 500-600mg per week for ten weeks phase, or could you coast on 200mg only.and what do you think you would lose at the end? would you lose some real weight or just some bloat? what about 100mg per week. after a 12 week mass cycle, do you think 100mg per weeks would do anything for you? make gains? keep gains? anything?
100 -200 mg/week would only shut down your balls. i was talking about doing 500 mg /week for year(s).Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
The above statement is incorrect. 200mg of testosterone per week is more than twice the amount the normally functioning male produces. You will grow on 200mg per week. A person could put on 10 to 15 lbs in 10-12 weeks while using 200mg of test per week, as long as it is a long lasting ester of test such as cyp or enan.Quote:
Originally Posted by steppenwolf
100mg per week is only a bit more than what the normally functioning male produces. You can grow off of this amount, but it will not be nearly as dramatic as when using 200mg per week.
There are several posts on this board regarding this subject.
I think i got a better question to put in the middle of all of this.............if your gonna cycle on and off and during the "off" time your on low test which helps keep gains,(it is for me), the question now arises, "how much time can you put in-between cycles if your constantly on a low test bridge?" Does this mean you can fit an extra cycle or 2 in a year, come off with some hcg and go on the low test again?? We all try to go by 'time on, time off' rule, so this patern of test usadge also might alow for more cycles and growth!???????
Quote:
Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
while i agree to an extent, you need to clarify this some bro. theres no way i'd even waste my time with 200mg/week OF ANYTHING. i'm sure you understand where i'm going here.
peace I4L
I4L79,Quote:
Originally Posted by iron4life79
You always find me when I'm talking about low doses. I definitely, know your stance on this. I just wanted to stop the myth about 200mg of test ew is only enough to shut down your testosterone production.
Fear.com
Iron4life79 posted an awsome thread on long cycles where low dose bridges were discussed. Technically, HRT is used for years in some patients (with no cycling on and off). So, keeping this brief and simple, I think that low dose bridges (HRT level of course) might be the way to go if you can afford it between cycles.
I4L79,
Can you post a link here to your long dose thread?