Goin on 2nd cycle.......

[BigPoppaPump]

Hey dudes, how's it hangin'?

If you guys could help me out here, I'm going on my second cycle pretty soon, i'm right now 23yrs old, 5 foot 8, about 190lbs, 15% bf. I'm lookin to put on about 30lbs in 12 weeks, been training for 7 yrs now, i did a cycle of dbol last year put on about 10 lbs of pure muscle and 20lbs of water and fat. made some rookie mistakes but dont intend to do so this time round, which is why i'm comin to you guys for help.

The cycle is gonna look something like this 100mg deca for the first and last weeks, 200mg every week in between; dbol for the first 6 weeks at 10-15-20-20-15-10mgs per week respectively; once im done with the dbol i switch to winnie at 100mgs per week for the 1st and last week and 200mgs per week in between. the reason i'm using such low dosages is coz i think my body responds very quickly to AS and i dont think i need very high or "standard" dosages to achieve my gains. some of you may see things differently but i wanna try things out at these dosages and if things dont work out well, there's always next time!

My problem here is with the HCG shots and clomid administration, i can get my hands on as much of these as i need as well as nolva but i need to know exactly when and at which points in the cycle i am to administer these compounds and at what dosages coz so many people have so many different techniques regarding test recovery im spinning in confusion. i'd be really grateful to anyone who can help me out here, thanx y'all.

[Big Al]

Ok,

Do me a little favour bro, write the cycle out week by week.

Kinda

Week 1-8

Deca 200mg

1-6

D-Bol etc etc.

Its so much easier to follow.

OK moan over.

you have you own thoughts on Dosages, OK the you choice, IMO you don't want to taper oil based gear like Deca, really is pointless. And run at 400mg the whole cycle, but hey thats down to you.

Run the D-bol at 20-30mg and don't taper either. You will need Milk thistle to protect your liver.

Don't run Winny straight after D-Bol, thats a whole lotta liver basin! Toxic orals like D-bol and Liver put a lot of strain on the liver, give you liver and break, you'll benefit.

Also I'd through in some test. So IMO

1-8
Test 500mg
Deca 400mg

1-4

D-Bol 30mg ED
Milk Thistle 800mg ED

Plenty of water

10,11,12
Clomid 50mg/100mg/50mg (Start Clomid 10 days after last injection)

IMO you won't need HCG this time round, but you can run 500iu each week or 5000iu in week 8.

Nolva 20mg ED when signs of gyno appear (if) and then 10mg ED untill the end of your cycle.

The above is a perfect stack for mass, whether you'll hit 30LBS in 12 weeks depends on

Diet
Training
Recovery

and how much you keep is also another variable!

BA

[pureanger]

I have to agree with Big Al

[BigPoppaPump]

thanx dudes. can u guys pls clear up the bit about the clomid and the HCG ? i'm still a little confused so any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Big Al]

Clomid

Clomid is not an anabolic /androgenic steroid . Since it is a synthetic estrogen it belongs, however, to the group of sex hormones. In school medicine Clomid is normally used to trigger ovulation. Clomid also has a strong influence on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis. It stimulates the hypo-physis to release more gonadotropin so that a faster and higher re-lease of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and LH (luteinizing hor-mone) occurs. This results in an elevated endogenous (body's own) testosterone level. Clomid is especially effective when the body's own testosterone production, due to the intake of anabolic/androgenic steroids , is suppressed. In most cases Clomid can normalize the tes-tosterone level and the spermatogenesis (sperm development) within 10- 14 days. For this reason Clomid is primarily taken after steroids are discontinued. At this time it is extremely important to bring the testosterone production to a normal level as quickly as possible so that the loss of strength and muscle mass is minimized.

HCG , is not an anabolic/an-drogenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is manufac-tured from the urine of pregnant women since it is excreted in un-changed form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. in women injectable HCG allows for ovulation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. In a man HCG stimulates pro-duction of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone produc-tion. HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testoster-one production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing ste-roid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass. Administering HCG directly after steroid treat-ment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by mega doses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size). Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. Those who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular in-tervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids, in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.

Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG. Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasma- testosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment.

What you need to know

Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in re-estab-lishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis

Clomid does and that why Clomid works very well post cycle, with a cycle such as above then Clomid will be very effective without HCG.

BA

[pureanger]

Big Al nice post bro

[Big Al]

Thanks Mate.



BA

[CYCLEON]

Big Al has some good points - to clarify and elaborate

Do a 10 week cycle (8weeks is ok but not 12)

W1-6 test eth/cyp (500mg) - deca (400mg) - Dbol (20-25mg ED) - Arimdex (.25mg ED)
W7-10 test eth/cyp (500mg) - deca (400mg) - Winny (50mg ED) -Arimdex (.25mg ED)
W11 Winny (50mg ED)
W14 Clomid - Day 1 300mg, 150mg ED
W15 Clomid - 100mg ED
W16 Clomid - 50mg ED


that should set u strait - dont forget to split the dbol and winny up 4x per day if you can and like Al said, take ur milk thistle. Forget about the nolva - the arimdex will take the water out.

[Big Al]

Cycleon, looks good bro. IMO I'd have a break between the D-Bol and Winny, maybe run the D-Bol for 5 Weeks and start the Winny on Week 8 and run through to 12 and then on to clomid. Obviously Armidex is the best, depends on budget. Proviron is an option run at 25mg ED.

JM2C

BA

[CYCLEON]

yeah i like to run the winny till clomid as well.

[choice]

you gained 30lbs. from a dbol -only cycle? 20 of it was fat??? What!?#$

[BigPete]

You can start Winny on week 8 and run it till week 12? What is the benefit of that? How much should you do in a week? And you should start the clomid after the winny? Thanks !

[Big Al]

Runnning the Winny week 8 to 12 extends the lenght of the cycle, and winny is a great hardener can help solidify the gains from the sus and Deca , also Winny can help counter Deca gyno which may appear at the later stages of the cycle, (unlikely but poss).

You'd then start the Clomid about 12-24 hrs after the last dose of winny.

BA

[choice]

I am still trying to figure out how someone gained 30lbs. (20 being fat) from a weak dbol -only cycle.

[Big Al]

I'd put that down to poor diet.

The Big Mac and Fries diet!

BA

[choice]

A McFlurry for breakfast, lunch, and dinner!

[CYCLEON]

its called water retention.

[choice]

i took that into consideration, but wow! he must have been on a saltwater diet.

[CYCLEON]

Originally posted by choice
i took that into consideration, but wow! he must have been on a saltwater diet.

LOL