comments welcome

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 02:12 PM

This is my fourth cycle:

Week:1 750 mg. test enth.
Week:2 750 mg. test enth.
Week:3 500 mg. test enth.
Week:4 500 mg. test enth./450 mg. deca
Week:5 250 mg. test enth./450 mg. deca
Week:6 250 mg. test enth./300 mg. deca
Week:7 250 mg. test enth./300 mg. deca
Week:8 250 mg. test enth./300 mg. deca
Week:9 250 mg. test enth./300 mg. deca
Week:10 300 mg. deca
Week:11 300 mg. deca
Week:12 300 mg. deca
Week:13-(18 or 20) 50 mg. winstrol oral per day
-followed by clomid and possible clen .

-My purpose is to a cycle that is to gain my previous size and maintain it with condition in mind.

I have 15 vials of test. enth of 250 mg strength and 10 ml vial of QV deca at 300 mg/ml strength. I am capable of getting all the oral winstrol i want and already have my clomid left-over from my previous cycle.

I have been on the website before and those of you who knew me knew that i played D.II college football but i recently injured my acl and mcl and decided to call it quits bc i dont want to risk the chance of surgery..anyhow my first cycle was just d-bol, the next was d-bol up to 40 mg/day and fina at 25 mg every other day in which i acheived very good results. My third cycle was that of d-bol up to 50mg/day with 250 mg of test every six days for 8 weeks with nolvadex every other day in which i got even better results. I followed all my cycles up with clomid and retained most from the fina cycle but lost probably all from the test/d-bol cycle because from what i figure, i ended with a test which i now know is a big mistake.

I weigh anywhere from 183-187 now(im at my lightest in about one and a half years.) I am very toned with i would image anywhere from 8-12% bodyfat so i look like i weigh more to others most of the time

I only listed the previous cycle info and weight info for purpose of advice from whoever reads this.(I'm sure no-one really cares about that shit, nor do i care to tell anyone ,but i figure it could give you guys more info about me in order to give me better advice)

With what i have listed as my drugs and with my previous cycle experience and weight...does anybody have any advice on changes that they think i should make to the cycle.

Thank-you in advance for taking the time to respond.

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 02:23 PM

Don't pyramid the doses, keep them steady. Start the winny a little earlier in the cycle too.

**D3m3nt3d** · 08-28-2003, 02:26 PM

For one I would not bridge test like that, even if you have to run 500mg/week for 8 weeks instead....and 3 weeks of Deca is just a waste bro..takes longer than that to see any results

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 02:32 PM

Oh i didn't even notice how short he was running the deca , i just saw the whole pyramidding thing and skipped right over it. Ya run them both atleast 10 weeks.

**tryingtogetbig** · 08-28-2003, 02:57 PM

yeah I would start the deca week 1 and leave the test around 500mg/wk from day 1. In addition, like bdtr said, at LEAST 10 weeks. IMHO, a few weeks longer would be better. Looks good other than that.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say " i ended with a test which i now know is a big mistake."

peace,

ttgb

**EGP?** · 08-28-2003, 03:14 PM

you don't want to take the deca longer than the test, or you could get deca dick.

**EGP?** · 08-28-2003, 03:16 PM

and you don't want more deca than test in anyone dose for the same reason.

**EGP?** · 08-28-2003, 03:17 PM

500mg test for 10wks, 300mg deca for ten weeks.

**EGP?** · 08-28-2003, 03:20 PM

50mg winnie ed, wks 5-10, start clomid wk 13

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 03:21 PM

Dude, are you trying to get your post count up? You know you could fit this in one post... Also the winnie is started too soon IMO, i'd run it past the deca +test and then recover from everything all at once for a smooth PCT givin' their half lives.

**Rookiejay** · 08-28-2003, 03:28 PM

I wouldn't pyramid - it's useless (read about AS half life - very helpful)

and run the test past deca (not the other way around) - there are many reasons for that (a bunch of threads just popped up and new started about this issue - worth reading)

**ItalianMuscle** · 08-28-2003, 03:42 PM

I would start deca the first week...

**EGP?** · 08-28-2003, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by bdtr

Dude, are you trying to get your post count up? You know you could fit this in one post... Also the winnie is started too soon IMO, i'd run it past the deca +test and then recover from everything all at once for a smooth PCT givin' their half lives.

this coming from the senior member who joined a month ago? LOL! just kidding! i kept wanting to add stuff, impatient, and getting posts up!

righteo on the winnie!

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig

yeah I would start the deca week 1 and leave the test around 500mg/wk from day 1. In addition, like bdtr said, at LEAST 10 weeks. IMHO, a few weeks longer would be better. Looks good other than that.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say " i ended with a test which i now know is a big mistake."

peace,

ttgb

I have 15 vials of test enth 250 and 10 ml worth of deca that is 300 mg strenght all manufactured by QV. With this i cannot run the test at 500 mg/week for ten weeks bc that leaves me 5 amps short....to run them together i could possibly run 250 mg every week and 200 mg deca every week for 15 weeks. This is the only way to run them together at the same dose with what i now have. Today i got 50 -50 mg winstrol tablets. Taken all of you guy's advice in to account...how does this look?

Week 1-15 test enth 250 mg/deca 200 mg
Week 17-18 clomid therapy
21-27 winstrol at 50 mg/day
followed by 6-8 weeks of clen or eca stack

Is this more like it?

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig

yeah I would start the deca week 1 and leave the test around 500mg/wk from day 1. In addition, like bdtr said, at LEAST 10 weeks. IMHO, a few weeks longer would be better. Looks good other than that.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say " i ended with a test which i now know is a big mistake."

peace,

ttgb

I forgot to meantion what i meant by that ... i have heard from fellow bodybuilders and read that it is not a good idea to end a cycle with a test...which some may argue against...but just from my body and my experience even with clomid therapy...i had a tremendous decline in strenght and mass

**Rookiejay** · 08-28-2003, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by ljc8

I forgot to meantion what i meant by that ... i have heard from fellow bodybuilders and read that it is not a good idea to end a cycle with a test...which some may argue against...but just from my body and my experience even with clomid therapy...i had a tremendous decline in strenght and mass

That could be caused by many factors - one of them is the timing and the dosage of clomid as a PCT ---

if you start too early (even if you use a 300 shock) it could be useless as long lasting esters (like Deca or Test E) are still saturating in your system

or, If you start too late and the test is down, while your natural is not up

So far, I haven't seen anyone linking a specific AS to effectiveness of PCT

IMO

Jay

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Rookiejay

That could be caused by many factors - one of them is the timing and the dosage of clomid as a PCT ---

if you start too early (even if you use a 300 shock) it could be useless as long lasting esters (like Deca or Test E) are still saturating in your system

or, If you start too late and the test is down, while your natural is not up

So far, I haven't seen anyone linking a specific AS to effectiveness of PCT

IMO

Jay

should i maybe wait two weeks post deca and test? instead of one.....i took it 300 mg day 1, 100 mg day 2-7, and 50 mg 8-14

**Rookiejay** · 08-28-2003, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by ljc8

should i maybe wait two weeks post deca and test? instead of one.....i took it 300 mg day 1, 100 mg day 2-7, and 50 mg 8-14

You should wait 3 weeks after your last shot of deca and 2 weeks after your last shot of Test E - (that's another reason why I said you should run test E past deca) - this way you start a productive PCT - not too late not too early

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 05:01 PM

Jay, i think it's time to lose the "rookie" in front of your name. Once again, you're dead on. Btw, with deca it's a good idea to extend clomid an extra week onto the 21 days.

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Rookiejay

You should wait 3 weeks after your last shot of deca and 2 weeks after your last shot of Test E - (that's another reason why I said you should run test E past deca) - this way you start a productive PCT - not too late not too early

start deca week early and extent main phase to 16 weeks

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by ljc8

start deca week early and extent main phase to 16 weeks

Week 1-15 deca 200 mg
Week 2-16 test 250 mg
Week 18-19 clomid therapy
22-28 winstrol at 50 mg/day
followed by 6-8 weeks of clen or eca stack

NOW IS THIS MORE LIKE IT?

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 05:11 PM

No, thats actually much worse.

1-15 test
1-14 deca
11-17 winnie
clomid/clen

**Rookiejay** · 08-28-2003, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by ljc8

start deca week early and extent main phase to 16 weeks

First of all, don't pyramid - the only thing it would do, just cause Test fluctuations which would trigger acne (you'll be like a teenager before the prom)

Whatever you have - make sure Test E runs 1 week pass your last shot of deca . This way you'll have your first PCT (300 mg clomid) exactly 2 weeks after your last shot of Test E.

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by bdtr

No, thats actually much worse.

1-15 test
1-14 deca
11-17 winnie
clomid/clen

Thanks alot for the advice...one last question how long should i wait after winnie for clomid and clen ?

**Rookiejay** · 08-28-2003, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by bdtr

Jay, i think it's time to lose the "rookie" in front of your name. Once again, you're dead on. Btw, with deca it's a good idea to extend clomid an extra week onto the 21 days.

Thanks, BDTR -

I was thinking about "starting over" with a new name here.....

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Rookiejay

First of all, don't pyramid - the only thing it would do, just cause Test fluctuations which would trigger acne (you'll be like a teenager before the prom)

Whatever you have - make sure Test E runs 1 week pass your last shot of deca. This way you'll have your first PCT (300 mg clomid) exactly 2 weeks after your last shot of Test E.

Those are conflicting a bit..do u agree with bdtr?

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 05:16 PM

The day after your last winnie injection/pill.

Originally Posted by ljc8

Thanks alot for the advice...one last question how long should i wait after winnie for clomid and clen?

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:18 PM

clomid after winnie or after test?

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 05:18 PM

After them both.

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:19 PM

Thanks again buddy mean a ton

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:20 PM

alright now im seeing the light same way as i did before 6 day 1, 2 day 2-7 , 1 day 8-14...both times?

**Rookiejay** · 08-28-2003, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by ljc8

Thanks alot for the advice...one last question how long should i wait after winnie for clomid and clen?

Exactly as BDTR said
1-15 test
1-14 deca
11-17 winnie
clomid/clen

- that's the cycle - winny is a short lived ester, you can star PCT 8 to 12 hours after last shot - so you can run winny up to your pct

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Rookiejay

Exactly as BDTR said
1-15 test
1-14 deca
11-17 winnie
clomid/clen

- that's the cycle - winny is a short lived ester, you can star PCT 8 to 12 hours after last shot - so you can run winny up to your pct

1-14 deca
1-15 test
clomid therapy 12 hours after last test injection
11-17 winnie
clomid therapy day after last winnie pill
clen 6-8

I hope i figured this one out by now!?

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by ljc8

1-14 deca
1-15 test
11-17 winnie
clomid therapy day after last winnie pill
clen 6-8

I hope i figured this one out by now!?

im dumb now i get it...read it too quick
1-14 deca
1-15 test
11-17 winnie
clomid therapy day after last winnie pill
clen 6-8

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 05:31 PM

::shakes head::

No, exactly like jay and I said.

Originally Posted by ljc8

1-14 deca
1-15 test
clomid therapy 12 hours after last test injection
11-17 winnie
clomid therapy day after last winnie pill
clen 6-8

I hope i figured this one out by now!?

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 05:31 PM

perfect.

Originally Posted by ljc8

im dumb now i get it...read it too quick
1-14 deca
1-15 test
11-17 winnie
clomid therapy day after last winnie pill
clen 6-8

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:33 PM

Im gonna keep u guys posted on how it goes...i start it on monday and ill give a full description along the way since you guys pretty much figured the whole thing out for me. Thanks again for your time.

**ljc8** · 08-28-2003, 05:35 PM

ill send work-out , diet, and other statistics out monday

**BDTR** · 08-28-2003, 05:36 PM

Cool, good luck and keep us posted.

**RC_0891** · 08-28-2003, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by ljc8

Those are conflicting a bit..do u agree with bdtr?

lcj... you are confusing the hell outta me bro. Here is the idea.

You want to run the test from the begining of your cycle, till one week past your deca . you want to take the winny starting towards the end of your cycle (for no longer than 6 weeks, as it harmful to your liver, so you will need 42 of your pills, assuming you take one a day). take the winny up until 2 weeks after your discontinuation of test, 3 weeks after your discontinuation of deca. Start your Post cycle therapy (clomid) 1-2 days after your last winny pill.

Another thing that concerns me. You made no mention of Nolva or bromo. From your previous posts, you seem a bit uncertain of things. Let me tell you that you should have the aforemention chemicals on hand. Test aromitizes into estrogen, and deca causes progesteren (sp?) formation, which could very possibly leave you with a nice little pair of knockers. On the upside, you would always have something to do on a friday night. But seriously... be careful. Good luck bro.

peace

-RC