Dianabol as a supplement

[trimunex]

I was doing a little research on the Web, and I came across this. Thought it might turn into a good dicussion here at AR, so I guess we'll find out. Anyway, found this at MuscleTalk. One of their members wrote it.

My thoughts on this .. well, I'm a true beliver in Dbol as a 4-6 week 'kickstarter'; but that's just because of my personal experiences. I've never used Dbol in any other way; whether it be at the end of a cycle, or for longer periods at lower doses, or to 'bridge' cycles.

Here you go....

The Use of Dianabol as a Supplement
Article by Bransholme (MuscleTalk Member)

This article was originally intended to be a history of the anabolic steroid dianabol and it's usage in bodybuilding, but there is little real evidence of how it was used in previous decades. However, in the course of research, I have come to the conclusion that current use of dianabol as a supplement is not as efficient as it could be. Most of the modern thoughts on dianabol use reflect around myths and irrelevant scientific studies; this article attempts to explain new ways of thinking on dianabol usage using scientific evidence and people's experiences.

Dianabol (or dbol as it's commonly called) is one of the most commonly used oral steroids . Its chemical name is methanedienone or methandrostenolone and there are many different pharmaceutical and generic varieties including Anabol and Naposim. In this article we look at lower dose usage of dianabol as a supplement, as opposed to using pro-hormones or pro-steroids .

Liver Toxicity of Dianabol
The 17 alpha-alkylated properties of methanedienone do make it liver toxic, but this, I believe, is overstated as most of the evidence of its toxicity comes from studies on individuals and not from studies on large groups of dianabol-using bodybuilders. One study on rats (1) showed that regardless of dose or time of administration, dianabol produces changes in enzymatic activity, which leads to hypertrophy of hepatocytes; which basically shows that dianabol is toxic to the liver. But in another study (2) Nerobol (Russian Dianabol) was found to favour a rapid normalisation of functional and metabolic disorders of the liver, which contradicts the earlier evidence. This shows that the whole idea of dianabol being dangerous is in no way as bad as some would make out.

Benefits of Dianabol Use
Dianabol has been shown to increase anaerobic glycolysis (3), which increases lactic acid build up in the body. This is beneficial because lactic acid is used by the muscles to form glycogen, which in turn provides energy in anaerobic metabolism. Lactic acid is also a key chemical in the disposal of dietary carbohydrates, which means you are less likely to get fat while using dianabol.

A study on osteoporosis (4) showed that at a dosage of just 2.5mg per day for 9 months dianabol was more effective than calcium supplementation in reducing osteoporotic activity, it was also shown to increase muscle mass more effectively. Another study on osteoporosis (5) which lasted 24 months, showed just how dianabol works on osteoporosis; dianabol increased total body calcium, and also total body potassium. This may not mean much to you as a bodybuilder, but the actions of calcium are very important to bodybuilders, as it transports large numbers of amino acids and also creatine and these two things are vital in muscle growth. Potassium is also very important, as it assists in muscle contractions, transmitting nerve signals, and insulin release; so it is also a very anabolic substance.

One very interesting study (6), although not significant in bodybuilding terms, showed that dianabol increases the sensitivity of laryngeal tumour cells to radiotherapy, and concluded 'recommending this hormone to be used during radiotherapy of patients with the laryngeal cancer'.

How to Cycle Dianabol
To create a cycle for dianabol that is based around using it more as a supplement than a steroid, we first need to look at the current trend for cycling dianabol and analyse what is wrong with it. An average cycle of Dianabol is usually structured as 25-40mg split throughout each day for 4-6 weeks, either alone or stacked with other steroids.

Firstly a dose of 25mg or more commonly causes water retention. It is well known that dianabol does aromatise quite easily, and most of the water retention is usually attributed to a build up of excess estrogen. However, it is my belief that initially water retention is caused by the body holding on to water due to the effects of dianabol on the body's mineral balance, in particular the potassium/sodium balance. This coupled with the fact that dianabol cause estrogenic side effects, leads to a lot of water build-up, and as there is little we can do about the change in the bodies mineral balance, the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen ) or other anti-estrogens. This is not the only method though, by reducing the dose, less of the drug will aromatise, which leads to less estrogen and more importantly less water retention. Reducing the drug during a cycle would lead to estrogen levels dropping slowly, so we should start the cycle with a lower dose of 10-20mg each day.

Splitting the dosage when you are using a low dose is virtually pointless, as you will get a much smaller peak of the drug. So in this case it is best to take it in a single dose in the morning (preferably with grapefruit juice). Although this will not prevent suppression of natural testosterone , it may lessen it to a certain degree, as your body will still have lengthy periods later in the day when there is little testosterone circulating, and so it may still produce some.

Now if we look at cycle duration, 4-6 weeks seems too short to have any real effect at a low dose, but how can we use dianabol for longer without placing more risk on our liver? The solution is actually quite simple; by taking weekends off from the drug we will give our livers a break from processing the drug. Due to the short half-life any active substances will be out of our system within 24 hours of your last dose, now this may seem like it will cost you gains, but in actual fact it will cost you little or no losses in the long run as even though there is no active drug in the body the effects are still present i.e. extra intramuscular water, and a more anabolic mineral balance. These effects usually taper off over several days. This method will not however, help your natural testosterone to return from its inhibited state, as this process can take considerably longer. If we take weekends off and use a lower dose, we should in theory be able to use dianabol for 10 weeks with no problems. A simple bit of mathematics can show this point best:


6 weeks @25mg each day = 1050mg of Dianabol in total
10 weeks with weekends off @15mg each day = 750mg of Dianabol in total

So as you can see, by using this system your liver will actually process less dianabol than in a conventional cycle, add this to the fact that you can make gains for 10 weeks instead of 6, and with fewer side effects, and you get a very solid cycle.

Summary
This Cycle Theory can be applied in many different situations, for instance a beginner could use the dianabol on it's own for 10 weeks and gain very well. A more experienced steroid user could use this alongside an injectable cycle for very good gains too, getting the benefit of the initial quick gains of the Dianabol, with the slower but stronger gains of an injectable.

This cycle may seem to go against many of the current trends of dianabol use, but I believe that by using dianabol as a supplement to good training and nutrition you can make very good gains.

References:

Effects of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity. Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG.
An experimental study of the hepatoprotective properties of phytoecdysteroids and Nerobol in carbon tetrachloride induce liver lesions. Syrov VN, Khushbaktova ZA, Nabiev AN.
Effects of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells. Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak Iu.
Calcium, vitamin D and anabolic steroid treatment of aged bones: double-blind placebo-controlled long-term clinical trial. Inkovaara J, Gothoni G, Halttula R, Heikinheimo R, Tokola O.
Changes in body composition following therapy of osteoporosis with methandrostenolone. Mann V, Benko AB, Kocsar LT.
Radiomodifying effect of methandrostenolone on laryngeal cancer cells. Bordiushkov IuN, Kucherova TI, Kisliakova ND, Vagner VP, Zubkova TV

[trimunex]

Bump .. any thoughts, questions, ideas??

9

[twosocks40]

Very interesting reading. It definately goes against most advice given out but it seems to be well written and researched. I think it makes pretty good sense though. Good stuff about the calcium and potassium also. Good reading.


-B

[lillbiffen]

Im gonna try that soon... whit some eq...

[BiggerBri2002]

Hey,

I would really like to hear more thoughts on this?

BUMP

[Billy_Bathgate]

Ive often popped 10-15mg postworkout while on cycle. Nothing bad came from it, but I think it may help with recovery a little bit.

[orazal]

bump............VERY interesting (i believe not much'll happen from such low dose BUT recovery is greatly enhanced by the positive nitro balance d provides

[Breetai]

verry intressting.. i have to try this method

[trimunex]

bump .. jic anyone missed who might want to check it out.

9

[orazal]

bump 4 n e other opinions

[Doc40]

I would definitely like to hear the results if someone is planning on running it this way sometime soon. Doc.

[BUYLONGTERM]

It's great, I just hope that newbies don't look at this and think HURRAY, dbol is a fantastic cycle by itself...

[sublang]

It's great, I just hope that newbies don't look at this and think HURRAY, dbol is a fantastic cycle by itself...

I agree. The key here is dbol as a "supplement". Anyone that goes into a dbol only cycle thinking they are going to put on 20+ lbs. and keep it will be disappointed.

However, to say that dbol by itself is worthless is absurd. There are many people that have kept 10lbs. from a dbol only cycle. Some people are only looking to gain 10lbs. For them I would say an oral cycle would be sufficient.

I think there should be a sticky about oral only cycles. There seems to be a lot of people coming on to this board asking about oral cycles. There also seems to be a lot of people on this board getting butt-hurt about the volume of oral cycle questions. If there was an unbiased thread dedicated to oral cycles (i.e. info on the drugs, dosage recommendations, toxicity, etc.), then whenever someone comes on the board asking for advice about an oral only cycle we can post a link to the sticky. Just a thought. Peace.

[the dent depot]

I'm seeing fooking amazing results from 20mg/day--->10mg/am 10mg/pm...I'm doing it with 200mg TC/wk. Less is more! I hit 222lbs today.........this rocks.......and NO SIDES!

JMHO

D

[the dent depot]

No bloat at all. I feel rock hard all the time(my muscles too...lol) and my lifts are climbing faster than ever now. I get a pump doing anything these days....if I hold my cel phone up to my ear too long my bicep starts to burn....I get so much of a pump while brushing my teeth, that I am teaching myself how to brush with my left hand to even it out.......I'm not f*cking around!!!!!

Life is good,

D

[cheatcurl]

I would definitely like to hear the results if someone is
planning on running it this way sometime soon. Doc.

Hi doc,
When I was around 20 I started using d-bol in the low dose range. I recall getting my first supply and the supplier,"a workout bro" told me how much to use in one day. The dose seemed quite high,so I went to the doctor and just asked. The doctor really didn't like it but he knew I was going to use it anyway.He said to dose it out at 20mg for 2 weeks then take one week off,and I did make some good gains that way. My max bench was about 250,and I was stuck at that max and couldn't gain anymore. I used the d-bol all by itself at that dosage and was benching over 400 less than a year later.

Cheatcurl

[powerlifter]

Ive often popped 10-15mg postworkout while on cycle. Nothing bad came from it, but I think it may help with recovery a little bit.

I use 10mg post workout also - seems to help me

[symatech]

Hi doc,
When I was around 20 I started using d-bol in the low dose range. I recall getting my first supply and the supplier,"a workout bro" told me how much to use in one day. The dose seemed quite high,so I went to the doctor and just asked. The doctor really didn't like it but he knew I was going to use it anyway.He said to dose it out at 20mg for 2 weeks then take one week off,and I did make some good gains that way. My max bench was about 250,and I was stuck at that max and couldn't gain anymore. I used the d-bol all by itself at that dosage and was benching over 400 less than a year later.

Cheatcurl

there is no way dbol alone gave you 150lbs on bench.

[JDMSilviaSpecR]

Good info...bump

[salu]

can dianabol only cycle cause gyno ?

[bodybuildingjunkie]

can dianabol only cycle cause gyno ?

I'm pretty sure. If the dose is high enough you'll have high estrogen levels which can cause gyno.

[HollywoodM3]

I have always used d-bol, at 30-40mg ed 6-8wks, with great results, alough with the higher dose like 40mg, I tried to run longer to see what sides I would get, I got nose bleeds and high boold pressure and some bloat, but now I stick to 30-40mg for no more than 6wks, This time I used 10mg ed at the same time in the AM, for a bridge, I was waiting for my gear for my cycle extender....seem to work great...
I would like to know if you could still take weekends off with a hight dose, may help on liver values an recovery???

HM

[clinteastwd]

Excellent Read For A Rookie Like My Self On The A.s . Subject.

[skycowboy]

Do any of you professionals think that if one was to go this route, would it be harmful if at the end of the 10 week cycle to start a 12 cycle of test E? I ask because I jumped right into Mick Hart's book and bought like 1000 dball to do his 10 week dball cycle. That was before I found this place and realized the truth about AS. I am getting the test E in like 10 weeks.

[ryan9101]

This post is old.

[100m champ]

So what would someone need to do to stop the excessive water bloat from d-bol only cycle

[Nicky B]

So what would someone need to do to stop the excessive water bloat from d-bol only cycle

You would need something like armidex run at .25-.5mg eachday.

[ImACrazyJewDaddy]

so would this be ok to do for a bigginer cycle? say from june-august with the low dosage

[james21]

I have done this in the past for shits and giggles. It works well for a beginner, just don't up the dosage. There will be some suppression, but you still get great pumps and some weight gain. It takes about 2 weeks to feel it but you will. All said and done it is extremely cheap to do, and is worth a shot

[TheMindOfRoss]

LOW DOSAGES of Dianabol (15-25mgs ED) used in conjunction with Arimidex is sometimes referred to by the old guys as "Poor man's Anavar "...

[ImACrazyJewDaddy]

ok, so if I did 15 mg ED, except Saturday and sunday for 10 weeks straight, that would be good? do you guys think that since this would be my 1st cycle, i could also throw in some fina, transdermally, and could see even more decent gains from that, and maintain more of it near the end? If so, would i need some test. or could it be done without. And then pct with clomid
?

[talldude1980]

wow so if u use 5mg of naposim terapia for 6 weeks what kinds gains are you gonna keep?

[Skull Mason]

I met with my dr the other day about this, and he said back in the day when him and his boys would do it they would use var and dbol in very low doses. LIke 5 mg a day for two weeks, then 10 a day for two more weeks, then 15 mg a day for two weeks, then back down again. Same thing with the var. He said it worked great, no sides, and was cheaper. he also said he wasnt trying to be a bodybuilder or anything so I guess it depernds on what you are looking for. I would also suspect that if you are an experienced user that it might not do much for you.

[liftin4life]

Wow..this is very interesting. I'd always been concerned about bloating with dbol but I guess with a low dose, I wouldn't have to worry about it. Hmmm...any more thoughts on this? Anyone?

[elite2kr]

so if i did lest say 12 weeks of dbol at 5mg in the morning, would i need to worry about gyno?

[Pinnacle]

so if i did lest say 12 weeks of dbol at 5mg in the morning, would i need to worry about gyno?

Ask Karln....

[O.M.E.G.A]

Dbol could only be used as a "supplement" if one were to take it once a day ALL in the AM and in a low dose

why in the AM?

because it will piggy back on the Test pulse released by males in the AM and since the half life of Dbol is so short the likely hood of HPTA impact is highly unlikeley.

[elite2kr]

Dbol could only be used as a "supplement" if one were to take it once a day ALL in the AM and in a low dose

why in the AM?

because it will piggy back on the Test pulse released by males in the AM and since the half life of Dbol is so short the likely hood of HPTA impact is highly unlikeley.

so in the pm with calcium supplment?

[Reprisal 6]

What kind of gains should I expect?
Are my feet going to get bloated?

I dont want to get too big
I want to stay at about 156 but lean and cut.

[elite2kr]

would doing a low dose of tbol be more effective then a low dose of dbol ?