Equipoise vs Sustanon 250

I intend to add one of these to a cycle of Deca and Primo, but the question is which? Now here's my situation I'm 5'9 180 28 yrs old. I'm a chicken shit so i dont intend to be one of those hardcore mf's that will continue to juice on and off for years. I wanna do 1 maybe two cycles and that should be it. I want to make good quality muscle that wont dissappear when i stop using.
I understand in a cycle of sustanon u can put on 25-35lbs but how much would i generally retain? If i lose 15lbs of it fine, but if i gain only 15lbs of quality on Eq then I'd rather do that just cuz i wont have to deal with people asking why appearance ballooned then plummetted. Like i said most likely only one cycle for me so I need good HIGH QUALITY muscle gains that are as permanent as possible

Bro, it sounds like you still need to do some research. My suggestions are the following: 1) A cycle isn't a cycle without test. So if you prefer sust (I don't, I'd much rather run T200) that is a must. 2) From what I understand, EQ and Deca use the same receptors, so it is a waste running the two together.

I would drop the deca and run the EQ instead. Also, if you don't want to balloon up, then I would opt for a single ester test like enanthate. You will still hold a lot of water, but not as much as sust IMO. Also, may want to look into winny for good solid quality muscle gain.

Later

I hear you barely keep any of the mass from enthanate...even AR's drug profiles say it it is hard to retain mass after a cycle is stopped...Also it is strange that you say EQ and deca dont work well together...A few people I've talked to actually say it works great.

Gotta have some test in there. The question should be deca or Eq. If you wanna retain most of your gains I would say T200 and Eq.

I agree with Ron on this one. Go with a test (I personally prefer sust) 500mg/wk and Eq 400 mg/wk. Throw in some dbol 40 mg/d for the first 4 weeks to get you going. If anyone asks about your ballooned appearance just tell em you had helium for breakfast.

Watch your sodium and drink 2-3 gallons of water a day and your water retention won't be too bad. Im on week 7 of a t200 eq dbol cycle and my water was noticable but not as bad as I thought.

Go with T-200 by Tornel its really good test and cheap also. I have never heard of anyone gaining 25-35lbs of just sust thats a bunch of Bullsh**. Deca and EQ will hit the same receptors but Deca converts to "progesterone" while EQ converts to "estrogen".
I think you should do more research and find the right stack for yourself. I think Test-200 and EQ would work nice.

The effect of anabolic-androgenic steroids on aromatase activity and androgen receptor.


Abstract

The level of aromatase is transcriptionally regulated through a specific androgen-receptor mediated mechanism and can be used as a measure of central androgenic effect. Therefore, several commonly abused anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) were tested for their ability to induce aromatase activity. In addition, we determined the relative binding affinities of these compounds for the androgen receptor, as well as their ability to bind androgen receptor in vivo following subcutaneous injections. All of the AAS compounds tested significantly stimulated aromatase activity above castrate levels. The compounds that produced the greatest stimulation of aromatase activity were those that bound most avidly to the androgen receptor in vitro (i.e., testosterone, dihydrotestosterone and
nandrolone). In contrast, the 17-Alpha alkylated compounds that were tested (stanozolol, danazol, methandrostenolone) modestly stimulated aromatase and were weak competitors for the androgen receptor. The subcutaneous injection of AAS compounds increased the concentrations of occupied nuclear androgen receptors in the brain, but the magnitude of effect was not related to their potency for inducing aromatase or their relative binding affinity for the androgen receptor suggesting that androgen receptor occupancy is not correlated with the action of androgen on aromatase. The present results help explain the behavioral effects of AAS.




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Metabolism and receptor binding of nandrolone and testosterone under in vitro and invivo conditions.

Abstract

The metabolism and receptor binding of nandrolone (N) and testosterone (T) were studied under in vitro and in vivo conditions. The results of both in vitro incubation studes with 3H-N and 3H-T in tissue homogenates and in vivo infusion studies with 3H-N and 3H-T show the importance of the enzymes 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha/beta-hydroxysteroid-oxidoreductases in the prostate and the importance of the enzyme 17 hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in the kidney for the effects of N and T on these tissues.
Following infusion of a combined dose of 3H-N and 3H-T there is a preferential retention at the receptor of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) over 5 alpha-dihydronandrolone (DHN), N and T (DHT much greater than DHN greater than N greater than T) in the prostate because T is a better substrate than N for 5 alpha-reductase and because DHT binds more strongly to the androgen receptor than DHN, N and T. In the kidney 5 alpha-reductase is not important; there is a preferential retention of N in T (DHN and DHT were only present in small amounts) because N is less susceptible than T for metabolic inactivation by the enzyme 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and N binds strongly to the androgen receptor. Both in vitro and in vivo studies
show that N and T were relatively stable in spleen, thymus and muscular tissue (only shown in vivo) and, as a result, the same amount of N and T was bound to the receptor in these tissues in the in vivo infusion experiment.



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ABSTRACT:
It is unclear whether anabolic steroids act on skeletal muscle via the
androgen receptor (AR) in this tissue, or whether there is a separate
anabolic receptor. When several anabolic steroids were tested as
competitors for the binding of [3H]methyltrienolone (MT) to the AR and skeletal muscle and prostate, respectively, MT itself was the most efficient competitor. 1 alpha-Methyl-5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (1 alpha-methyl-DHT; mesterolone) bound most avidly to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) [relative binding affinity (RBA) about 4 times that of DHT]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids bound strongly to the AR in skeletal muscle and prostate [ RBAs relative to that of MT: MT greater than 19-nortestosterone ( NorT ; nandrolone) greater than
methenolone greater than testosterone (T) greater than 1 alpha-methyl-DHT]. In other cases, AR binding was weak (RBA values less than 0.05): stanozolol ,
methanedienone, and fluoxymesterolone. Other compounds had
RBAs too low to be determined (e.g. oxymetholone and ethylestrenol . The competition pattern was similar in muscle and prostate, except for a higher RBA of DHT in the prostate. The low RBA of DHT in muscle was probably due to the previously reported rapid reduction to metabolites, which did not bind to the AR. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids (only a few synthetic) bound to SHBG (1 alpha-methyl-DHT much greater than DHT greater than T greater than 3 beta-adiol greater than 3 alpha-adiol = 17 alpha-methyl-T greater than methenolone greater than methanedienone greater than stanozolol). The ratio of the RBA (an estimate of the myotrophic potency of the compounds) was close to unity, varying only between about 0.4 and 1.7 in most
cases.


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Test in itself is a stack. The best single cycle would be test so once you add it as a base work around it and add the other anabolics. Use arimidex and the water retention / fake loss of gains will not be as noticeable.

Ok maybe I'm not as intelligent as you, but I might be prettier!:D All that information is great, but I honestly could only understand about half that information...1) Do you agree EQ and Deca hit the same receptor? 2) Which is the more potent of the two? 3)Does the proposed Deca/Primo/Sust cycle sound good to you...(now as it sounds the addition of Armidex might not be a bad idea). 4)Do you have a proposed dosage schedule that you would recommend?

Thanks 4 all the help...god knows I need it.:unsure: :blush:

400 mg of deca a week for 10 weeks
500 mg of sus a week for 10 weeks
--- break the above into 2 shots... Sun and Wed 1cc of each ---
35 mg of dbol everyday for the first 4 weeks
0.25-0.5 mg of arimidex everyday (depends on how prone you are to estrogen relate sides)
800 mg of milk thistle everyday with the dbol 10 days before to 10 days after
50/100/50 clomid 3 weeks after last injection.

***4000+ cals, 300+ grams of protien everyday***

Train hard, eat well, rest and you WILL get jacked off that cycle.
Enjoy!

Wouldn't Test Prop be better for holding less water? I thought I read about it being good for that. You have to inject EOD though, right? :eek:

Test prop is great for cutting since water retention is very low almost none. Injections are EOD and they are painful as hell. Mixed with EQ no problem.

See... I was going to run a T200,EQ,Winny first cycle but I studied some more on t prop. How much more is it than T200 (guess)? I'm looking to cut and add some lean mass so Prop would work good, but I don't wanna be a PIN CUSHION my first trip to the dark side :eek:

WHat the heck is EOD???

EOD is every other day go with the Test and Equipose combo