Which is better for keeping gains Sust or Deca?

[Bogan]

Would you keep more gains with dbol /sust cycle or with dbol/deca cycle?
Considering clomid at the end of the cycle…

[BOUNCER]

You don't give enough info for a definitive answer. So I'll try my best. D.ball and Deca is an old basic cycle, it works, but throw in some test.
D.ball and sustanon will also work and is a good bulking cycle if the your doeages (sp'ing !!) are high enough.
Without knowing your experience, training routine's, diet and motivation it's hard to say which is better.
Deca is very calourie dependent, but with the d.ball your getting a good ration of anabolic /androgenic proparties.
Sust and D.ball is a high adrogenic cycle and so you risk all the side effects that kind of cycle will bring. Although the potential for side effects are their on both cycles and high andro cycle will normally give more pronounced side's like water retention, BP and acne.
If it was me I'd go with the Deca/D.ball with some test in there too.

Regards

Bouncer

[Ranger]

I will concur on Bouncer's response and bring up a moot point....Remember that doing a Sus/Dbol cycle you have but one side to combat...the aromatization of estrogen....the sides here, depending on the dosage are easily controlled...

Now, with Deca /Dbol, you now have 2 sides to consider...the aromatization of estrogen due to the dbol(17AA as well), and Progestin sides due to the Deca, which is a part of the Nor-Test family....

These are things you must always consider when deciding on a given cycle...The sides of Deca, Sus, Dbol...etc. Must be researched and then you decide which is best for you...Deca sides, though rare in some, are VERY real in others....

Ranger

[Bogan]

Guys you explained me about sides of sust and deca . this was helpfull, but I was asking about gains. Will I gain more QUALITY muscle mass with deca or sust????

[bex]

I find i get very good gains from sus alone but you must take at least 500mg a week.You are best to split it into 2 shots a week.

[The Iron Game]

Test vs Deca

Long live Test

[BOUNCER]

You'll make better quality muscle off an anabolic cycle, ie Deca !.
Simple ?, not so my friend and thats why we took the time to explain more about the drugs apart from simple quality muscle. You can of course get quality muscle while natural too !, but if you feel the need for steroids at least your better educated now when taking the various drugs into consideration.

But simplicity doesn't stop there my friend, like I said Deca is very cal dependent so I'll ask you, "are you already fat ?", if so you might get fat just simply piling in the cals and bang goes your quailty muscle theory !.
So you might think, ah, adrogens are the way to go so since I can't afford to put on any more fat, again, not so !. Apart from getting fat as another side effect, if you are a little chubby the extra water retention will make you look chubbier !!!.

If your lean and looking for 'quailty muscle' rather than gaining great size a high anabolic cycle will work better again !.
Do a search on anabolic cycles or post what steroids are avaiable to you to put the cycle together, ie deca, winny, primo, eq etc..

Regards

Bouncer

[The Iron Game]

Nice post Bouncer & Ranger.

Bouncer while I agree with you by preventing the estrogen increases. (arimidex ) Quality muscle can be achieved without water retention or increase in fatty deposits. Keeping water retention off from deca on the other hand is going to be much more difficult and I defintely agree in saying much more research is needed from Bogan and at more info needs to be provided.

Peace

[BOUNCER]

One last thing I should mention. Too many people make the mistake of trying to make rocket science out of steroids . Keep your cycles simple, and to maintain gains while off will depend on your motivation, training, rest, diet etc...
So put simple steroids alone will not help gain and hold (while off) quaility gains.

Bouncer

[soul shaker]

i've done both together and seperately with other things, and in my opinion, deca sucks. i would never do it again when eq is available. as for keepable gains, sus is good if your diet and training are in check for at least 3 months post cycle.
ss

[Bogan]

Originally posted by Bouncer AKA bouncer
You'll make better quality muscle off an anabolic cycle, ie Deca !.
Simple ?, not so my friend and thats why we took the time to explain more about the drugs apart from simple quality muscle. You can of course get quality muscle while natural too !, but if you feel the need for steroids at least your better educated now when taking the various drugs into consideration.

But simplicity doesn't stop there my friend, like I said Deca is very cal dependent so I'll ask you, "are you already fat ?", if so you might get fat just simply piling in the cals and bang goes your quailty muscle theory !.
So you might think, ah, adrogens are the way to go so since I can't afford to put on any more fat, again, not so !. Apart from getting fat as another side effect, if you are a little chubby the extra water retention will make you look chubbier !!!.

If your lean and looking for 'quailty muscle' rather than gaining great size a high anabolic cycle will work better again !.
Do a search on anabolic cycles or post what steroids are avaiable to you to put the cycle together, ie deca, winny, primo, eq etc..

Regards

Bouncer

ok what do u think would be an ideal cycle for me? here are my stats. age 26, 165lb, 5'8 around 10-13% bodyfat. training hard for 2.5 years. i'm looking to gain mass. 20 - 25 lb. this would be my first cycle. i can get pretty much any AS. thanks.

[BOUNCER]

Bogan honestly there's so many variable invloved. I have seen guys make monsterous gains from very very concervative cycles and guy's make minimal gains frmo huge expensive cycles !.
It really is a very individual thing, and thats not giving you a short answer.
Someone PM'ed me here earlier and asked me what I thought of his cycle of 750mg testo, 400mg deca per week and 50mg d/ball per day, I replied that it was my favourite cycle !.
Now other's can come up with 'designer' cycles which are beyond my financial reach or simply they have access to drugs I don't have. And those people might laugh when I say that cycle is one of my favourite's, but I have experience on it and it works, it's simple and relatively cheap.
If someone did THAT cycle in your position and did'nt get satisfactory gains then there's other problem aree's to look at, ie diet, training routines and rest. But the average guy will grow on that cycle.
On some BB'ing boards it's almost fashionable to post cycles containing 4 or 5 cycles, not counting the ancillary drugs like nolva,hcg or clomid for the average body builder. Thankfull this board appears somewhat more conservative than that.
Those kinds of cycles are very for the very advanced BB'er and the guy making up a pre contest cycle.
When you start your cycle, please don't think it's a short cut to hugeness, someone has a signature here with a quote from Arnold about going through the pain barrier look for it. When your on remember this signature and burst your balls and make us proud. Keep us posted with the results of your cycle.
Sorry for the very long winded reply.

Bouncer

[MR PHATT ASS]

JUST GET IT AND USE IT//ITS PRETTY CHEAP. DONT LET A CYCLE GO TO WASTE AND LOSE GOOD GAINS BY NOT HAVING POST CYCLE GOODS..MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE 300 MGS-1ST DAY..100MGS THE REST OF THE WEEK THEN 50 MGS-FOR NEXT 2 WEEKS AFTER..CLOMID STARTS 2-3 WEEKS AFTER LAST INJECTION..THIS IS INFORMATION THAT I'VE READ OVER AND OVER AGAIN...VETS MAYBE HAVE A BETTER SUGGESTION ON CLOMID THEROPY.I'M STILL RELATIVELY NEW TO THE GAME...

[Bogan]

I appreciate everyone’s response!
Originally I was thinking of doing dbol 30ed for 4 weeks sust500ew and deca400ew for 8 weeks.
It looks like most of the guys on the board around 200lb. I’m only 165lb so I thought this dose was kind of high for me. Maybe I’m just to paranoid about it. But I would rather be safe then sorry.

[BOUNCER]

That'll be a nice cycle. At 165lbs you should be getting in 330+ grammes of protein a day too, since you appear to be a hard gainer increase your carb intake too.

Bouncer