Too Many Calories?

[Sokrates]

What would be the signs indicating one was eating too many calories on a cycle......gaining unnecesary fat.

[Psycoswole]

you want to gain a little bit of fat when bulking, that will tell you your getting enough kcal, but if your starting to get sloppy then cut back a few hundred and try to find a good median

[Sokrates]

i have been told to expect to add weight, that my waistline isn't a good guage, etc. What does "sloppy" mean? How many lbs a week is too many lbs? Any other signs?

[Psycoswole]

You just have to try to keep up with how many kcal your taking in and gauge your fat intake with a mirror. Works for me, but if you want to get technical you can grab some fat calipers off the net, theyre fairly inexpensive and use those. There is a thread by Tobey that explains how to figure out kcal intake for maintainance and gain/loss in the educational threads board, check it out.

[Sicilian30]

You can always calculate using your BMR thingymaggigy. I used to know how it works. I have forgotten I haven't used it in soo long, I just know my own body and know when I am getting enough calories, I listen to my body, I eat when I am hungry, but eat good foods..

[Sokrates]

this is not making sense to me. First you say I am SUPPOSED to gain fat along with the muscle. I say how do I know that its too much fat and you say get calipers and look in the mirror.

I thought I was supposed to gain fat?!


The caloric reqt stuff is not what I am interested in.

I want to know how much fat is too much fat?

Put another way, how many lbs per week are too many lbs per week?

[Psycoswole]

Sorry bro i cant throw out numbers for you, maybe someone else can help

[bravo11p]

One thing that would help is knowing what you are taking in and your stats. Are you on a cycle and if so then what. Your question is somewhat vague. A gain of 2 lbs per week is good for one person but not for another. You really need to check out Tobeys Daily caloric intake chart on the educational threads. Do the math and figure out what you need to be taking in to maintain your current body weight and then you can use that number to figure out how much to add. Plus you have to be taking in the right foods when bulking and keep a written dairy of what you take in. For example; I am currently on a bulking cycle so when I started, I needed 2635 cals per day to maintain my weight. I adjusted that in week one to 2900 cals per day and 3200 cals per day in week two. I then measured my BF% to see if I needed to adjust my cal intake. If this still isn't helping, drop me a PM and I'll try to help. Or give TObey a shout. He has tones of info that is very helpful and has helped me out a ton.

[Sokrates]

cycle is dbol , deca & sust. 1st cycle. I am pretty small (5'4", 150). Trying to bulk...natch.

I take creatine ED before starting (and during) the cycle if that impacts water weight gains at all.

The whole caloric needs thing is *exactly* what I do not want. I've already solicited those kinds of info from folks I trust. Bryan Haycock says 20 calories * lbs + 1000. I am sure other folks will say + 1500 or 25 cals or whatever the formula du jour is. Some people just say eat 5000 calories.

But people....ie, moi......have different metabolisms.

I'd want to err on the side of eating too much...its easier to lose fat than muscle and I want to take full advantage of the cycle, but I obviously don't want to balloon unnecessarily.

If I gain 5 lbs a week is that too much? 7.5? 10?

Why does it seem so difficult to answer this question?

[Psycoswole]

You want us to pull a number out of our heads and say you can gain that much? Like you said bro, people have different metabolisms and also react differently to various steroid compounds. Your asking how much fat you can gain but at the same time dont want to focus on your calories, doesnt make sense. Also save the creatine for after the cycle.

[Sokrates]

Originally posted by Psycoswole
You want us to pull a number out of our heads and say you can gain that much? Like you said bro, people have different metabolisms and also react differently to various steroid compounds. Your asking how much fat you can gain but at the same time dont want to focus on your calories, doesnt make sense. Also save the creatine for after the cycle.

This is like the twilight zone.

1. I do NOT want you to tell me I can gain x amount. I have never asked anything remotely like that.

1b. Saying I don't want to focus on calories is just wrong. I have focused on calories. With people whose opinions I value.

2. I was answering questions posed to me.

3. Creatine might make sense for cortisol after a cycle. Do you have a basis for the belief it doesn't also make sense during?

4. How many times to I have to repeat the same question?

If I was a self-doubting kind of guy I would question myself, but I am not and I am also smart enough to know that this is an obviously sensible question.

Let's say I calculate reqts to the calorie. And I gain 20 lbs next week. Is it conceivable in any universe that I am not eating too much? Have you ever heard of anyone, anywhere gaining 20 lbs in a week? So I want to know how I would know. Should I watch my waistline? Is there a maximum number that cannot be reasonably gained? Do I just watch for getting fat and if so, describe qualitatively the difference between normal fat gain on a cycle and blubber the whale.

Somebody, either me or somebody with some experience, is going TO HAVE TO a pick a number, or a feature, or something. That's just the nature of the question. So what is the most informed measure for ascertaining that you are eating too many calories?

Or do you think it is unreasonable to ask? I should just gain 10 lbs next week and ...... dance naked around trees waiting for divine oracles to appear and make pronouncements?

[Psycoswole]

Originally posted by Sokrates
dance naked around trees waiting for divine oracles to appear and make pronouncements?

If you want to live up to your name

Ill leave the question for some one else to give input.


For me when im on creatine for extended period of times it stops doing anything for me so i try to cycle it with my off times off the year.

[Psycoswole]

Originally posted by Sokrates





Somebody, either me or somebody with some experience, is going TO HAVE TO a pick a number, or a feature, or something. That's just the nature of the question. So what is the most informed measure for ascertaining that you are eating too many calories?

A few people have given you input on how they go about watching if they are gaining too much fat, it just sounded to me like your looking for a definate answer.

[big_guy]

first of sokrates, psyco DOES have experiece so u won't have to wait around for somebody with it.. 2nd, there is no too much weight, or too little for god sake!! just look in the mirror and if u think that you're lookin a little chuppy simply cut down on the cals... simple as that...

so if u did gain 20 pounds in a week, the only person to say that it too much is YOU... so chill out.

[Sokrates]

Originally posted by Psycoswole


If you want to live up to your name

Ill leave the question for some one else to give input.

For me when im on creatine for extended period of times it stops doing anything for me so i try to cycle it with my off times off the year.

glad you appreciate the humor....

I am taking it for nutritional reasons....different need.

As for me, I don't want anything definitive, I just want to know what constitutes normal expected fat gain for people on a cycle vs what is excessive.....Maybe you can figure out a better way to frame my question.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

[Gonna Be HUGE]

Bro, just relax and don't worry about. Considering you weigh 150lbs, then you obviously have an extremely fast metabolism, so I wouldn't worry about putting on a little fat. You will lose the fat as soon as you come off the cycle. Take me for example, I weighed over 200 naturally. I am naturally a little chubby, so I have a slow metabolism. When on gear, I still take in 5000+ cals a day and put on a little fat, but its not too bad (except my last cycle I was eating 7000 cals a day and gained a lot of fat). So for you, I would say 5000-7000 cals a day shouldn't be too much. If your waist line starts growing quickly and you start looking bloated and soft, then cut back on some carbs and you should be fine.

[Mr. Nobody]

first off, lose the creatine on cycle, aas increase creatine storage adding it is overkill. And u want it for recovery to get a nice surge when u are coming off, so drop it.
Secondly only u know what is too much of a weight gain. It is all a matter of preferences and goal orientation. If you keep your calories clean, u should be ok. Additionally avoid fat with high carbs (post workout meals for instance)

[Medicine Man]

sok you asked this ? in another thread and now you are driving everyone crazy. I will try and help though:
i am 5'5'' 180
on my last cycle i ate 4000 cals, 500+ carbs, 300 g protein ED
the most important thing like i said before is not necessarily the calories its the timing of your food intake and that intake should have the necessary balance of carbs fats and protein... i never really worry about cals....
like psyco said the best indicator of getting fat is the MIRROR i tell ALL my clients that... even myself. I ate a shit load on my cycle and gained little fat because like said above AS allow your body to handle this.
so if you are going to BULK, you need to stop worrying and eat.
and at 5'4'' 150 you havent been eating enough... you need to learn to forget about that 6 pak for a while if you want to gain muslce and bulk...
make sure to eat as much clean foods as possible... this is what psyco meant by "sloopy" (ie fast food, fried, foods, too MUCH)...
eat good carbs ... sweet potato, natural ovens bread, pasta in small amounts...
lots of clean proteins... turkey, chicken, tuna, cottage chesses, eggs
trust us ... if you start to truly count every single thing you eat you will not gain as much as you really can...
and PLEASE save the creatine for post cycle... take multvit, glut, BCAAs, and lots of shakes during cycle.....
good luck if you have other ?s just ask, but the guys who responsed before me are very intellegent so dont get snippy with them.... trust everyone... you need to chill out about this NUMBER you want...
what people dont realize is that weight management is even more controlled by hormone release not by the AMT of food eaten... i have done many studies with this and if you understand anything about basic biochem you will understand... most here dont understand biochem so that is why you have to trust me... if you eat the right foods at 2 hrs intervals (or 3).... you will gain no matter what....
good luck

[Sokrates]

Here's the thing....I have gained 7 lbs since Fri: 146 to 153. (first inject thurs, have been injecting 125/100 sust/deca every two days (total of 3 injects) since then, + 25 dbol ED). Waist does not seem noticeably larger (ie, pants are closing the same) but I feel a little tight as if there is some water gain.

But....I am *not* eating a lot. About 3500 (eating at least every 2 hours).....and honestly even that's only if its the russian judges counting (I have always had a very slow metabolism). I figured I would gradually increase caloric intake over the first week and was expecting to up intake by 500 calories. I want to take full advantage of the cycle. Now I am afraid to increase calories. I don't mind adding on extra fat....but frankly, 7 lbs seems like too much in 3 days, even to start my first cycle.

btw, if I ate 7000 calories they would ride me to football games on monday nights.

[GuestPoser]

Just my quick 2 cents - (Unless you are just starting working out) if you are gaining any "pounds a week" you are getting fat and consuming too much of something. But don't simply count calories or protein. A lot of people think that all you have to do is eat your weight in grams in protein and you are a bodybuilder. There is much more science to it than that.

Its not 100% accurate, but have someone check your bodyfat with calipers or something. Or if you have the means, hydrostatic or a "bodpod" are even better.

Don't just watch the scale. It is very misleading no matter what your goals are. (Don't forget water retention either.)

[Fast Results]

bro if your bulking dont be so cocerned about fat, just eat claen byt try ti=o keeo your cals around 4500 ifn its hard to calculate then add some egg white in (hard bloiled buttry to keep that to a ROAR BECAUSE OF CXOLESTERAL BUT OTHER WISE EAT, EAT AND EAT REAL CLEAN... TUN, STEAK EARLY AFTERNOO AND WATXH YOU b/f % WITH Calories have fun and low your other wix eat 5eql eal

[bex]

If someone calls you a fat basturd then you know you will have to cut the cals down.......

[The original jason]

weight gain is normal with sust deca dbol its water you wont notice it round oyur waist at first i can hold 10lb of water and only just notice it cos im not so lean right now stop worrying there is no perfect answers it comes with time trial and error

peace
Jason

[zibep]

I had the same concerns as you when I started my cycle 4 1/2 weeks ago, so I got a bodyfat scale, one of those scales that sends a light electrical signal through your body and tells you your body fat. Let me be the first to say that it is totally invalid, meaning I am not anywhere close to the bodyfat that it says I am, but it is reliable, meaning that if my bodyfat goes up or down, it should be able to read that well.

Using the scale, I can tell that eating 3500-4000 calories per day is just about right for me. I put on about 3.5-4 pounds per week this way without a lot of fat. I am 5'8", was 173.5 at start of cycle, now 190, bodyfat is up probably about 1%. I am on 300mg test/300mg deca per week on my first cycle.

When I first started asking questions about how much to eat, I got the reponse of 5000 calories from a lot of people, but I think that's more of a diet for a 200+ pound person. Since you're 153, maybe something like 3000-3500 would be good. That's my guestimate.

[Fast Results]

Originally posted by Fast Results
bro if your bulking dont be so cocerned about fat, just eat claen byt try ti=o keeo your cals around 4500 ifn its hard to calculate then add some egg white in (hard bloiled buttry to keep that to a ROAR BECAUSE OF CXOLESTERAL BUT OTHER WISE EAT, EAT AND EAT REAL CLEAN... TUN, STEAK EARLY AFTERNOO AND WATXH YOU b/f % WITH Calories have fun and low your other wix eat 5eql eal

I was so drunk and on 9 Valiums with 2 painkiller when i wrote that I had One hell of a new years boys, so its back to diet and w/o schedule again

01/01/02... funny looking huh?

[superbeast]

There really is no need to put fat on at any time. You don't need it for muscle to grow. That is a crock of shit that you need to put fat on to bulk up. I haven't been over 8% bodyfat in nearly 3 yrs, whether I am on or not. If you are eating clean while you are using, you will gain very little fat anyway. Most of it should be muscle and water. If you think you look fat, clean up your diet or cut a few calories.

As for creatine, there is no reason to go off of it. Creatine is used for energy in the muscles. It helps you workout longer and recover quicker. It is stored in the muscle. Once the muscle is saturated, it is saturated. If you stop using it, the stores in the muscle become depleted and you lose the effects of having it. It is not something to be cycled. It is like a vitamin. If you are going to take it, you keep taking it. That is just the fact of the matter!

[Psycoswole]

Originally posted by superbeast
There really is no need to put fat on at any time. You don't need it for muscle to grow. That is a crock of shit that you need to put fat on to bulk up.

Who said you need fat to grow? If you gain a little bit of fat it will tell you that you are getting enough kcal to maximize your growth efforts, thats all. Sure you can bulk without gaining any fat. I would just rather know that im getting more than enough calories than not enough. This topic has been beatin to death in a lot of diff threads

[GuestPoser]

In short, fat does help the body produce testosterone .