I am 18 years old and I juice

**octagon** · 11-05-2003, 02:31 PM

hey foxy, i totally understand your risk/reward point. if i knew what u did when i was 18 i would have done the same thing. even if the risks are higher at 18, that is still the last point in your life where u can gain height. there are probably several people on this board who could have played pro ball if they had the knowledge and the resources to give themselves an extra few inches of height.

also, people always state it as a fact, but are there ANY studies that show that teenagers are more subject to shutdown or endocrine problems than adults from roid use? there have been numerous studies where they used test on kids as young as 11...have any of these studies shown side effects that they get that we don't (except the closure of epiphyseal plates of course). the #1 side effect teenagers usually run into is IGNORANCE...they don't know enough to protect themselves, maybe thats why you hear so many horror stories about them.
to all of you guys who are telling foxy to wait till he reaches his genetic limits...he already has reached his genetic limit...FOR HEIGHT! that is the stated goal of this cycle, and its his last opportunity to do so. getting huge will just be a pleasant byproduct. GO FOXY! just be careful...a year long cycle is no joke.

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-05-2003, 02:53 PM

Dead right about the bi-product part. Muscle growth and fat loss WILL be side effects of the cycle, side effects I wont complain about, but the main goal is height growth.

Ive been trying to say what you said well Octagon, where are the studies that say teens are more susceptible to such side effects, where are they?

Ive seen the AAS use in 11 year old studies with no side effects listed other than bone age maturation rate increase (via estrogen aromatase I suspect).

No, instead alls I hear are opinions, based on the opinions of some guys opinion stated 5 years ago because he had done 15 cycles since he was 25. Irrelevant information, useless for intelligent arguments. Not factual, just opinionated.

I do not take my cycle as a joke either (as should be obvious by my research). Taking a cycle as a joke is more what everyone else here does. Do any of you ever do your own research, or do you just rely on the research that some guy with "vet" status told you. Just because hes a "vet" doesnt mean he knows shit about anything, just means he posts alot of other peoples opinions.

There is alot of general cencensus' out there on these AAS boards, and alot of them are wrong, yet no one wants to argue against them cause its the concensus. I dont care if my reputation becomes shattered because I go against the grain, science is far more important than having cyber-friends.

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-05-2003, 03:02 PM

Oh, also, I will be taking before/after pictures, as well as-as much measurements of every aspect as I possibly can. Ill prove everything you've ever been told by everyone around you about teen AAS use and height growth wrong, and I bet, you will still argue against it.

I dont suggest my cycle to anyone, but I dont discourage it from anyone. Its your choice in life, at least Im willing to give you the dead truth even if its at risk of losing all my 'cyber' popularity and being flamed.

I also know proper diet and training, that was as simple to learn as counting for me. Diet and training is insanely basic, so are steroids , its the endocrinology and physiology behind it all that is where the complexity lies.

Btw, 50%natural, never PM me again.

**pumpseeker** · 11-05-2003, 03:04 PM

Your natural test production will never be the same once you start juicing. Foxy, you might want to be prepared for that. Even with all the right precautions, AAS throws your system off permanently. IMO, you will end up so screwed up for the rest of your life from that cycle. Let me give you an example. Ever hear of Flex Wheeler? Flex has to do HRT the rest of his life because he stayed on for long periods of time and screwed his system up permanently (and I'm sure he took precautions), sort of like how you're going to do to yours if you run a 46 weeker. You can run the cycle you posted, but in all reality, unless you are extremely rich, you won't be. Sounds to me like more of an immature ego boost thing. Sort of like the King of Test's signature.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by pumpseeker

Your natural test production will never be the same once you start juicing. Foxy, you might want to be prepared for that. Even with all the right precautions, AAS throws your system off permanently. IMO, you will end up so screwed up for the rest of your life from that cycle. Let me give you an example. Ever hear of Flex Wheeler? Flex has to do HRT the rest of his life because he stayed on for long periods of time and screwed his system up permanently (and I'm sure he took precautions), sort of like how you're going to do to yours if you run a 46 weeker. You can run the cycle you posted, but in all reality, unless you are extremely rich, you won't be. Sounds to me like more of an immature ego boost thing. Sort of like the King of Test's signature.

Spoken from a true pro!!!! Nice call PUMP

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 03:09 PM

Oh, I'd love to see the studies with 11 year old doing cycles with NO sides effects. GIVE ME A BREAK.

**Powerful Beast** · 11-05-2003, 03:10 PM

Foxy...do you know how much all of this stuff is going to cost? Your going on a year long cycle, while your still somewhat in puberty..for what? bone growth? You trying to throw an evolution among the way steroids should be taken? DO you know that shutting down ur test levels while they are still increasing and growing, means the growth hormones will take the first hit and also be shut down? This means that when your around say 40, 50 years old, you will face the effects of an 85 year old man. And please dont tell me hcg is going to help that, because taking that much stuff for that long, will result in absolute decreased natural test production for the rest of ur life. Do me a favor Foxy..come back to this board in a few years and tell us all how u are doing ok? Good luck man, i respect people like you trying to evolve the use of steroids to the next level..so good luck man

**pumpseeker** · 11-05-2003, 03:14 PM

Hey, I can run 3 grams of AS and gh for a whole year, look at me!

I've done so much research, I sound like a scientist! I don't care if 99.9% of the steroid users on AR disagree with me, their experiences don't mean shit! I will prove them all wrong when I have no hair, secrete milk from my nipples (which hang down to my belly button), can't get it up (even with viagra) and I still look like shit!!! Look at me, I'll prove it!

Sorry Foxy, I'm having fun with this one.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by pumpseeker

Hey, I can run 3 grams of AS and gh for a whole year, look at me!

I've done so much research, I sound like a scientist! I don't care if 99.9% of the steroid users on AR disagree with me, their experiences don't mean shit! I will prove them all wrong when I have no hair, secrete milk from my nipples (which hang down to my belly button), can't get it up (even with viagra) and I still look like shit!!! Look at me, I'll prove it!

Sorry Foxy, I'm having fun with this one.

You might be having fun with it, but that really sums this up.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 03:19 PM

The best thing that came out of this is POWERFUL BEAST isn't going to do screw himself up. He is a very intelligent guy and I'm glad he did the right thing.

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-05-2003, 05:49 PM

Guys like powerful beast never got to think for themselves. You guys try and try again to continiously feed false information to pursuade a general concensus into your direction: Teen steroid use = fucked up for life.

My god, give me a break. You can try to threaten me with outrageously over-stated side effects, but unlike powerful beast, Ive done my research, I know what the side effects really are, and theres nothing you can try to threaten me with that could ever change that. You cant brain wash me to follow in your footsteps, because I think independantly from you. Your lies and truth twisting doesnt work on me. I know whats REALLY going on here, and Im sure some of you guys do too, and im sure that doesnt stop YOU from twisting the truth to keep somone following your concensus.

If I followed general concensus for everything, I be just like you. Not something I want to do. Ill blaze my own trail, and once the cycles over and done with, and Im smiling big happy smile, Im going to write a book, and Im going to debunk every little concensus of bullshit ever spread.

Btw the studies ive seen with young childern and testosteorne, oxandrolone, and other such AAS, have only listed bone age maturation, I think it would be in their best interest to list all the side effects that had occured, had there been any. I recall decrease testicular volume was another side in males, but completely reversed post-treatment.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 06:01 PM

No, guys like Power Beast come here for the best possible advice, and the best advice would be of that of the majority of the board. Seriously, would you take advice from one person, or several people that had the same opinion. Just because you want to do something, doesn't mean it's right. Though we don't agree, I do commend you for standing up for something you believe. Just out of curiosity, with all the research you've done, you had to of come up with the SIDE EFFECTS of doing a cycle like that. Please list them. You seem to think this is soooo easy and you'll come out with no ill effects?

**King Test** · 11-05-2003, 06:06 PM

First of all, you said you wouldn't waste your time with me BLT so don't even reply.

I like how you dodged my point in concern with judging people. You judged me from my profile? Do you REALLY think I bleed test? Do you REALLY think I want you to fuck off? Do you REALLY think I'm looking for my syringe? Well, that's yes to all three. No, seriously, it's a joke. Albeit not too humourous, but then again I'm not exactly the world's funniest man.

All I'm saying is give the guy sound advice, and remind him of the consequences, especially of use at a younger age. Let him make the decision for himself. He's come this far, he's probably capable of doing it himself. You could be discouraging a future Mr. Olympia for all you know.

**Carlos_E** · 11-05-2003, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Guys like powerful beast never got to think for themselves. You guys try and try again to continiously feed false information to pursuade a general concensus into your direction: Teen steroid use = fucked up for life.

My god, give me a break. You can try to threaten me with outrageously over-stated side effects, but unlike powerful beast, Ive done my research, I know what the side effects really are, and theres nothing you can try to threaten me with that could ever change that. You cant brain wash me to follow in your footsteps, because I think independantly from you. Your lies and truth twisting doesnt work on me. I know whats REALLY going on here, and Im sure some of you guys do too, and im sure that doesnt stop YOU from twisting the truth to keep somone following your concensus.

If I followed general concensus for everything, I be just like you. Not something I want to do. Ill blaze my own trail, and once the cycles over and done with, and Im smiling big happy smile, Im going to write a book, and Im going to debunk every little concensus of bullshit ever spread.

Btw the studies ive seen with young childern and testosteorne, oxandrolone, and other such AAS, have only listed bone age maturation, I think it would be in their best interest to list all the side effects that had occured, had there been any. I recall decrease testicular volume was another side in males, but completely reversed post-treatment.

You know what. If you are so hell bent on destroying your body. Go right ahead, do it. Plenty of people have offered advice but you seem to think you know better.

You are 18 and going onto a year long cycle that will cost thousands. How do you plan to pay for it? Trust fund? Allowance? Whoring? I'm curious.

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-05-2003, 06:16 PM

Glad you asked longterm, ive been waiting for that one.

Side effects may include the following (some more likely than others): decreased bone mineral density, decreased testicular volume, androgenic effects (hair growth, acne, deep voice -- im highly sensitive to androgenic effects as ive noticed simply from ZMA), heavily impacted lipid profiles, liver value spikes, HPTA shut down, Pituitary shut down, hypoglycemia, headaches, insomnia, heart enlargement, cranial thickening, joint aches/pains, coarsening of facial features, thyroid shut down, stroke, respiratory/cardiovascular problems, excess fluid retention in extremeties, seizure, abnormal bone growth, nose bleeds, blood clotting disabilities, and im sure ive missed a few, but thats the majority.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by King Test

First of all, you said you wouldn't waste your time with me BLT so don't even reply.

I like how you dodged my point in concern with judging people. You judged me from my profile? Do you REALLY think I bleed test? Do you REALLY think I want you to fuck off? Do you REALLY think I'm looking for my syringe? Well, that's yes to all three. No, seriously, it's a joke. Albeit not too humourous, but then again I'm not exactly the world's funniest man.

All I'm saying is give the guy sound advice, and remind him of the consequences, especially of use at a younger age. Let him make the decision for himself. He's come this far, he's probably capable of doing it himself. You could be discouraging a future Mr. Olympia for all you know.

Well, I guess I have to reply because you actually made some sense and for the most part, I respect that post. I just think that when I looked back at a lot of your responses most of them were so disrespectful to people that the first thing anyone wanted to do is begin an argument with you. See as I've said, It's OK not to agree with someone. Guys on here do it all the time. Its just that again, you went into attack mode. We all did. Take BDTR for example again. He does insane cycles, but he won't preach that to people. He knows what a normal person at the right age should do. The advice isn't just from this board, you won't find any legit boards telling 18 year old to do roids. The best thing to do is talk them out of it. Just like FOXY. He shouldn't preach a cycle like that or tell people that there are no real sides to it.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Glad you asked longterm, ive been waiting for that one.

Side effects may include the following (some more likely than others): decreased bone mineral density, decreased testicular volume, androgenic effects (hair growth, acne, deep voice -- im highly sensitive to androgenic effects as ive noticed simply from ZMA), heavily impacted lipid profiles, liver value spikes, HPTA shut down, Pituitary shut down, hypoglycemia, headaches, insomnia, heart enlargement, cranial thickening, joint aches/pains, coarsening of facial features, thyroid shut down, stroke, respiratory/cardiovascular problems, excess fluid retention in extremeties, seizure, abnormal bone growth, nose bleeds, blood clotting disabilities, and im sure ive missed a few, but thats the majority.

And that doesn't scare you?

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-05-2003, 06:23 PM

As for paying, its called a job.

I have no bills to pay, no taxes to pay, no food to pay for, so alls I have to pay for is my drugs -- 100% of my income can go straight to this cycle. And even then, I have help from friends who see a feesability in my ideas, and are willing to assist me in anyway I need to make sure I can get it done (i.e. loaning some of the drugs).

Im not alone in this, just people around me consider to keep their support lo-profile as Im a very arrogant and controversial person, and they'd rather not get involved in the political front of my quest. I have quiet a few supporters, and I thank them for their support and assistance, and understand their reasonings for keeping silent.

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-05-2003, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

And that doesn't scare you?

Of course it does in one way or another. Fear is respect really. I respect the possible outcomes, but I can combat the majority of them rather easily.

No side effect ive yet to read, has discouraged me the least bit. I have points to prove, theories to conclude, and experiments to undergo.

**Nailer** · 11-05-2003, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Of course it does in one way or another. Fear is respect really. I respect the possible outcomes, but I can combat the majority of them rather easily.

No side effect ive yet to read, has discouraged me the least bit. I have points to prove, theories to conclude, and experiments to undergo.

FS, by any chance are you buddhist?

**motoxxxguy** · 11-05-2003, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Glad you asked longterm, ive been waiting for that one.

Side effects may include the following (some more likely than others): decreased bone mineral density, decreased testicular volume, androgenic effects (hair growth, acne, deep voice -- im highly sensitive to androgenic effects as ive noticed simply from ZMA), heavily impacted lipid profiles, liver value spikes, HPTA shut down, Pituitary shut down, hypoglycemia, headaches, insomnia, heart enlargement, cranial thickening, joint aches/pains, coarsening of facial features, thyroid shut down, stroke, respiratory/cardiovascular problems, excess fluid retention in extremeties, seizure, abnormal bone growth, nose bleeds, blood clotting disabilities, and im sure ive missed a few, but thats the majority.

I'm not going to get into whether or not you or anyone else should juice at whatever age, that point has been beat to death and those who want to will, those who decide not to won't.

My point here is that Foxy is willing to trade ALL of these possible side effects for what I could only imagine would result in an inch at the most in height growth.

This may be the biggest and most well documented case of "small-man sydrome" ever!

I hate to pick on you Foxy, as I do respect your research and your obvious intelligence. How you choose to apply that intelligence is not my decision to make, and I won't try.

-moto

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-05-2003, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Nailer

FS, by any chance are you buddhist?

Not that im aware of.

I dont beleive in any god anywhere, its a stupid idea if you ask me. Ill beleive it when I see it.

***JohnnyB*** · 11-05-2003, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

Oh, I'd love to see the studies with 11 year old doing cycles with NO sides effects.

Foxy i would like to read that 1 myself, I think if you'd post it we all might understand where your coming from. But until you post it, it's just your opinion of something you've read, not fact to anyone but you. I don't see the point of debating you on your cycle or your opinions, because that's all they are until you post the study and source of the study.

I'm open to learn, but without research studies from a reputable source. Your statement are just another mans opinion, which you've stated you don't do, only fact. Facts can be backed by evidence, show it to us. So we can understand, where your ideas come from

JohnnyB

***JohnnyB*** · 11-05-2003, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Not that im aware of.

I dont beleive in any god anywhere, its a stupid idea if you ask me. Ill beleive it when I see it.

Have you seen your cycle work? but yet you believe in it

JohnnyB

**Powerful Beast** · 11-05-2003, 08:32 PM

Johnny B, excellent statement u had there!!! Another point to prove your imperfection and stupidity of character foxy..under your messages, the following words are entered
"It has come to my attention that 99% of members on all AAS boards opinions are not actually their opinions, but rather the opinions of the opinions of the opinions of the opinions of somones ill-informed opinion."
So ultimately what your trying to say is that the ill-informed opinion of someone that 99 percent of the bros follow, is bad? What the bros follow is that You should eat right, train right, max out your gains naturally and juice when you have hit a genetic limitation, and this is all ill-informed? What foxy tends to do is close his eyes, and open his mouth, and followed by whats coming out of his mouth, is a stream of theories and hippie doodly crap words...

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dflood

foxy:
youve stated that you want real teen feedback...advice? nah, from what ive read, you probably dont want my advice.
but ill tell you my experience anyway
i am seventen years old, eighteen in one month.
ive done my research..all of the endocrinology..androgens, and their posotive effects on linear growth in those with un-ossified growth plates.
from all that i gathered, i wanted a drug that caused a spike in levels of igf-1 in the body, and had minimal estrogenic aromatization/conversion. so, ideally, that would be igf-1, of HGH...but i cant afford those.
after that, my options became oxandrolone, stanozolol tabs, and tren ..
all of these (as im sure you know) are non aromatizing anabolics/androgenics, with tren and winny having the highest possiblility of elevating igf-1 levels in the body, according to my research.
across three different forums, there were two people that did not immediately tell me "DONT DO IT YOUR TOO YOUNG!!!". all of these warnings DID scare me, but i had this nagging notion in my head that many of those opinions were solely based on message board rumor, that had been passed on from person to person.
so i decided on a 6-8 week cycle of winny only....starting at 30mg a day, and tapering up to 50mg ED by the end of the first week. i was using thai 5mg stanabols
everything started out at planned...at the end of the first week, i was up five pounds, and all of my lifts had slightly risen, as well as my workout intensity. but i noticed that i no longer had morning wood. also, i could get it up, but the second i was not actively "concentrating" on sustaining an erection, it would dissapear. i mean, bam, gone...
on day nine, my nuts began to ache. all the time. not excruciating, but a constant pressure, that would not subside.
the second week, i noticed a few extra hairs in the drain. during sex, it was becoming increasingly harder to get off, and i noticed that the loads i was shooting were smaller...and this was only after a little over a week of a steroid that is rumored to take little effect on HPTA/LH levels!
in summation of the sides i was already experiencing, i aborted. i realize that i am mentally ready for steroids , and all of my physical priorites are in order, but the threat to my future sexual health, and endocrine function, was not worth the benefits.
im not sure if this is going to make a difference to you...but i hope you take into account that your not going to be able to predict how your body will respond to any of these compounds...much less the massive conglomeration that you are planning.
since then, my natural test has fully recovered, after massive amounts of avena sative and l arginine, and i wake up everyday to the wonderful reality of *gasp* morning wood. youll never know how much you miss it until you get on, and it dissapears. i plan on continuing my natural training until i am at least 210 pounds, under ten % bf and at least 20 years old, from the lean 188 i am now. i know i just wrote a gd book

best of luck bro, in whatever you choose to do

Great post bro, welcome to the board!!!

**King Test** · 11-05-2003, 10:17 PM

Foxy - god isn't necessarily anything in particular, christian, buddhist, ect... (in case you didn't know)

It is merely a loosely figurative term for a higher power. Do you believe in a higher power? As much as I'd fought with this idea and dabble in the loopholes of christianity (there are many), eventually I began to understand that making my own god was best for me, based on my own moral code and system of beliefs. It is this higher power that fosters me alone which gives me the strength and will to live with character (which admittedly hasn't quite shown through). You don't have to believe in anything that you don't want to believe, especially if it isn't logical to you.

BLT - I agree with you, I undoubtedly came down too hard, and I respectfully disagree about talking a younger person out of steroid use . Informing them, based on my experience, is the best method of action. Let them know the positive/negatives, and step back. I'm glad this is settled.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-05-2003, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by King Test

Foxy - god isn't necessarily anything in particular, christian, buddhist, ect... (in case you didn't know)

It is merely a loosely figurative term for a higher power. Do you believe in a higher power? As much as I'd fought with this idea and dabble in the loopholes of christianity (there are many), eventually I began to understand that making my own god was best for me, based on my own moral code and system of beliefs. It is this higher power that fosters me alone which gives me the strength and will to live with character (which admittedly hasn't quite shown through). You don't have to believe in anything that you don't want to believe, especially if it isn't logical to you.

BLT - I agree with you, I undoubtedly came down too hard, and I respectfully disagree about talking a younger person out of steroid use. Informing them, based on my experience, is the best method of action. Let them know the positive/negatives, and step back. I'm glad this is settled.

Me too bro!!!!!

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-06-2003, 12:20 AM

First off, powerful beast, your opinions that you say are not your opinions. You've just become the perfect example of what my signature is talking about.

You started this thread a whole different person, a few bros tell you "teen steroid use is wrong", and now, their opinions, have become your opinion, and now your yelling me "teen steroid use is wrong". This is what im talking about, not only are you the byproduct of this, but 99% of the members here are the byproduct of the same kind of opinion spreading.

Think for yourself if you have the brain to do so.

Dflood, your story is noted. But its nothing new to me. All the side effects that happened to you, im expecting to happen to me thats for sure, if they dont happen to me, im going to bitch slap my sources for fake gear. Im well aware that everything you mentioned WILL happen, I HOPE it happens, cause that means my bodies RESPONDING properly, thats how the bodies supposed to respond to this, this isnt new, this is side effects, and side effects come with the game. Nothing you listed in your story should've came as a SHOCK to you as happening, you should've KNOWN that would happen, I know it will, to what degree is something you dont know, but you can expect it to happen. I respect your decision to discontinue, I guess thats fine for you.

for hair control nizoral, finasteride, minoxidil. For gyno, Letrozole , and if needed, nolva (although it has a pharmacokinetic incompatability with letrozole so I will reserve it for emergency use only). For PCT: HCG , Clomid, and Tribulus (if desired). After the first 4 weeks of PCT, I will be hitting a pro-cholesterol reduction/balancing PCT using Lipitor. PCT will prolly last about 3 months itself.

**octagon** · 11-06-2003, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

Oh, I'd love to see the studies with 11 year old doing cycles with NO sides effects. GIVE ME A BREAK.

it's not up to us to post a study: YOU'RE THE ONE MAKING THE ASSERTION, IT'S UP TO YOU TO BACK IT UP! you're the one saying that teenagers are more subject to side effects than adults. all i did was ask you for any study backing up your statement.

as a point of fact, many of these steroids were made for or used for childhood diseases. i would assume that extra side effects would have been noted in one of the MANY studies. look one up and post it to back up your point of view. for all we know, their test levels might bounce back faster than an adults. as i get older it seems to take longer for my test to come back.

and to clarify a couple of other points - NOBODY EVER STATED THAT AN 11 YEAR OLD ON TESTOSTERONE THERAPY DIDN'T HAVE ANY SIDE EFFECTS! i just asked if their side effects were worse than ours. and to clarify another point...even i think its a stretch that they don't have additional health issues, but i would like to have an opinion based on more than hearsay. there have been enough studies with children that the answer should be out there. let's have somebody look it up and put this matter to rest. i mean no disrespect to the many very knowledgable people on this board, i've learned a lot from you. i just want a definitive answer to this question with real science backing it up.

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-06-2003, 02:18 AM

Ive alreayd posted this study (this is only one saved on my comp), but again ill repost it as apparently you need to re-read it 5 times.

Long term treatment with low dose testosterone in constitutional delay of growth and puberty: effect on bone age maturation and pubertal progression.
Bergada I, Bergada C.
Hospital de Ninos R. Gutierrez, Division of Endocrinology, Buenos Aires, Argentina.
We compared the effects of long term low dose treatment with testosterone on pubertal growth and sexual development in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP). We treated 24 boys with intramuscular monthly injections with low dose testosterone enanthate (33-50 mg) for 20 months, at a chronological age of 14.5 +/- 1.0 years and SDS height of -3.31 and compared their response to a group of 14 control boys. Treated patients showed an earlier and significant increase in height velocity compared to controls, 10.1 vs 4.0 cm/year, while the latter group showed their growth spurt twelve months later. Both groups showed an initial acceleration in bone age without impairment of predicted adult height. During the first 12 months of treatment the increment of testicular volume in the treated patients was slightly slower than controls; however the earlier the puberty, the slower the testicular increment compared to controls. We conclude that treatment of boys with constitutional delay of growth with low dose testosterone is effective in improving their height velocity without impairment of predicted final height. Progression of testicular volume during treatment in some patients is more delayed; however, after treatment it increased normally.

Note they mention side effects, testicular volume was the only side effect noted. It would be in their best interest to list every side effect observed. Heres another study I have on my computer...

A specific aromatase inhibitor and potential increase in adult height in boys with delayed puberty: a randomised controlled trial.
Wickman S, Sipila I, Ankarberg-Lindgren C, Norjavaara E, Dunkel L.
Hospital for Children and Adolescents, University of Helsinki, Ph 281, FIN-00029, Hus, Finland
BACKGROUND: The role of oestrogens in the closure of growth plates in both sexes is unequivocal. We postulated that inhibition of oestrogen synthesis in boys with delayed puberty would delay maturation of the growth plates and ultimately result in increased adult height. METHODS: We did a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in which we treated boys with constitutional delay of puberty with testosterone and placebo, or testosterone and letrozole . Boys who decided to wait for the spontaneous progression of puberty without medical intervention composed the untreated group. FINDINGS: Letrozole effectively inhibited oestrogen synthesis and delayed bone maturation. Progression of bone maturation was slower in the letrozole group than in the placebo group. In 18 months, bone age had advanced 1.1 (SD 0.8) years in the untreated group and 1.7 (0.9) years in the group treated with testosterone and placebo, but only 0.9 (0.6) years in the letrozole group (p=0.03 between the treatment groups). Predicted adult height did not change significantly in the untreated group and in the placebo group, whereas in the group treated with letrozole the increase was 5.1 (3.7) cm (p=0.004). INTERPRETATIONS: Our findings suggest that if oestrogen action is inhibited in growing adolescents, adult height will increase. This finding provides a rationale for studies that aim to delay bone maturation in several growth disorders.

This one is testosterone + letrozole.

While im in the process of spoon feeding you people ill grab you some of my links...
http://www.pedresearch.org/cgi/content/full/52/2/137
http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food2/UID06E/uid06e0y.htm
http://www.growtall.com/bones-explained.htm
http://education.vetmed.vt.edu/Curri.../Lab8/Lab8.htm
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:...hl=en&ie=UTF-8
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/140/2/958
http://www.growthplate.org/
http://www.ortho-u.net/oa3/102.htm
http://www.ejbjs.org/cgi/content/abs...=VS6eGS2MjoVDI

thats enough for now children, enjoy, I read all that in 1 day.

**BDTR** · 11-06-2003, 02:32 AM

I wish there was a hormone that would prevent foxy from typing.

***asymmetrical1*** · 11-06-2003, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by bdtr

I wish there was a hormone that would prevent foxy from typing.

HAAAAAA

**Taejoon** · 11-06-2003, 02:43 AM

Your'e a wild dude Foxy... A bit arrogant and possibly overconfident, (not so different than myself) but youv'e chosen to blaze your own trail, and I respect that. You must never forget, that for those of us who chose to try and attain unusually great things with our lives, there is a very fine line between calculated risk, and foolishness. You are right on the edge, and no matter what anyone on this board might tell you I'm sure you are going to continue with your plan. With that in mind I wish you the best of luck and will hope that you have armed yourself with enough knowledge to stay on the side of "calculated risk" instead of erring into the relm of "foolishness"...

Peace

-Taejoon

***50%Natural*** · 11-06-2003, 03:35 AM

I would like to publically apologise to foxy for attacking his personal character in a previous thread. I did this in the heat of the moment and apologize for it. I will just stay away from these threads as it seems to lead no where. Anything logical from our perspective is illogical and vice versa. Oh well, I do think for myself so I will not absorb anything other than actual curiosity about this study. Serious question for foxy though. If you are being monitored by a doctor, why is this not going to be posted in some medical journal becuase I would think that research you have reached thus far would be of some interest to the entire medical community. Not shooting you down but I am curious.

**Nailer** · 11-06-2003, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Have you seen your cycle work? but yet you believe in it

JohnnyB

Could'nt have put it better myself

**Calipso** · 11-06-2003, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Nailer

Could'nt have put it better myself

I've seen more organized monkey shit-fights in the zoo.

**slamd097** · 11-06-2003, 09:02 AM

uh..Foxy, you know it is interesting to read your comments. Like you I joined this board and thought I knew everything. As it turns out i was wrong, I'm glad i did listen to the Bros here. The cycle I was orginally planning to do would have messed me up and probably would have killed me. BUT, every one told me the same thing....DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!! look it is all here, everything you need. Experiences with just about everything you can find. Some good, some bad. you know the risks and you know the conquences.

Look, if you want to continue on that is up to you, I say go for it, if your not going to take sage advice. If it works, im glad for you. If it dosen't (which odds are that it won't), WE TOLD YOU SO!! Obviously there have been alot of people telling you the experiences they have had and you are not going to take the advice.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-06-2003, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by octagon

it's not up to us to post a study: YOU'RE THE ONE MAKING THE ASSERTION, IT'S UP TO YOU TO BACK IT UP! you're the one saying that teenagers are more subject to side effects than adults. all i did was ask you for any study backing up your statement.

as a point of fact, many of these steroids were made for or used for childhood diseases. i would assume that extra side effects would have been noted in one of the MANY studies. look one up and post it to back up your point of view. for all we know, their test levels might bounce back faster than an adults. as i get older it seems to take longer for my test to come back.

and to clarify a couple of other points - NOBODY EVER STATED THAT AN 11 YEAR OLD ON TESTOSTERONE THERAPY DIDN'T HAVE ANY SIDE EFFECTS! i just asked if their side effects were worse than ours. and to clarify another point...even i think its a stretch that they don't have additional health issues, but i would like to have an opinion based on more than hearsay. there have been enough studies with children that the answer should be out there. let's have somebody look it up and put this matter to rest. i mean no disrespect to the many very knowledgable people on this board, i've learned a lot from you. i just want a definitive answer to this question with real science backing it up.

Nobody stated that? Here's a quote from FOXY himself.

"Ive seen the AAS use in 11 year old studies with no side effects listed other than bone age maturation rate increase (via estrogen aromatase I suspect)

Why in the hell is it up to us to post the study when we aren't the ones stating those facts? Seriously, I'm going to say this ONE last time. "THE PURPOSE OF THE BOARD IS TO HELP PEOPLE OUT WITH QUESTIONS". You can have an opinion, but quit trying to argue with people. I'm seriously getting sick and tired of 18 year olds who think they are indestructable or give opinions that aren't warranted. Most guys on here give real life opinions. I'm also sick and tired of seeing someone asking a question like "How do I run GH and Slin?" and instead of trying to see if the person knows anything about it, I see post saying "run it like this"........THAT IS DANGEROUS! Anyone knows if you don't know what your doing with SLIN it could be fatal. But I don't see any advice directed in that area. Quit trying to argue for the sake of arguing.

**Foxy Sphinx** · 11-06-2003, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by 50%Natural

If you are being monitored by a doctor, why is this not going to be posted in some medical journal becuase I would think that research you have reached thus far would be of some interest to the entire medical community.

Define your opinion of a medical journal.

This is HIGHLY illegal, the compounds and dosages im dealing with are highly illegal and there is no way the medical community is going to write up a medical journal on something that is illegal as that would be unprofesional of them.

I do have a hypothesis and research proposal written which I wanted to submit to the local university to be studied under their care, but I was informed by some elite people that this would most likely just heat myself out to the authorities rather than get me into a medical supervision lab at the university.

So the 'medical journal' is going to be more of an @home journal.