Test/Eq for first Cycle, asking for comments

[canadaineskimo]

I'm 21 BF i'm not sure 4 abbs showing and 6ft 200lbs so prop 15% bf
anyways My goals are to gain some Hard muscle for next football season hopefully 15-20 pounds, but if its less its less.
I've been training for four years off and on (moreso on, but football seasons, injuries ect.)
max bench right now is around 375, however due to shoulder injury i just do 225 reps now
Squats are 545max
Deadlifst i tried those for the first time yesterday did 400lbs six times, but had no straps so i couldn't raise the waits without dropping it.

my first question because I havn't seen anything about it is Do Easy gainers tend to "blow up" more on a cycle? (i'm the type that has to stop working out body parts for bits of time because stretchmarks appear, mostly on the underarm though, and upper quads, nowhere to significant)

I am thinking of running my cycle like this
weeks 1-2 300mg test prop
weeks 1-8 400mg test enth or cryp
weeks 9-10 test prop 400mg
weeks 1-10 400mg eq
weeks 11-14 Clomix or nolva
and of course Nolvadex on hand incase of gynecomastia

also for a first time cycler is it going to be neccessary to have HCG for PCT and if so i havnt read anywhere how long that is testable in the system.

I've read two things on EQ mostly that it is detectable up to 5 months? (this works great for me) and a few others (however only on forums) said 18 months which dosn't work for me at all

I'm running the test prop to kickstart the process at the biggining because I'm so excited to see what it feels like to have the test in my system, and then again at the end so i can go straight into PCT, because i'll want my Boy's back asap!

i'm curious to know if running these eq and test at these levels would the avrage user experiance many sides? and if i run proper diet pct will i be able to accomplish my keepable gain goals?

[50%Natural]

I am thinking of running my cycle like this
weeks 1-2 300mg test prop
weeks 1-8 400mg test enth or cryp
weeks 9-10 test prop 400mg
weeks 1-10 400mg eq
weeks 11-14 Clomix or nolva
and of course Nolvadex on hand incase of gynecomastia

I can tell you the cycle is a little off. Try:
wks 1-10 500mg test e
wks 1-10 400mg eq
wks 11-13 150mg prop eod
wk 14 pct

Need to allow for the eq to clear. If you want to run prop at the end run it like that or even one extra week(10-13). I just kept it simple. If you want a kick start try dbol. Too much test for a first time imo. I didn't see the rest of your questions so don't think I am ignoring you. Eq is no more than 5 months prob 4 though. Could jump start with dbol but that is probably enough for a first cycle.

[canadaineskimo]

Thank you very much for the reply, I think what u suggested is great, i dont think i'll do the dboll. Anyways if anyone has a look at this and could answer my PCT question that would be awsome, if not, i'll just brows the web some more.

Anyway's i'm off to the gym, so i will be back in a couple, have a good'r boys!

[Pheedno]

I would suggest:
75mg Prop ED for first 4 wks
250mg Enan E4D
clomid/Nolva for PCT starting 14 days after last injection

[50%Natural]

Yeah, I am with you pheedno. I merely suggested that because that is what he wanted to do. I didn't want to pull the 180 on him if he was set on it.

[TheMudMan]

I would keep the cycle simple for a first and IMO EQ is also a good addition to a first cycle with test.

1 - 4 Prop 75mg ED
1 - 13 Enan 500mg a week or do as Pheedno suggested
1 - 12 EQ 400mg a week
1 - 15 L-dex .25 ED
1 - 15 Nolva 10mg ED

Start PCT after your last Enan/EQ injection:
Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 2 - 21 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 22 - 28 20mg Nolva

[strongweapon]

his cycle looks fine--his logic is sound

everybody screamin' "prop ED--prop ED"

why in the heck would you guys have him shootin' a drug with a half life of 5 days EVERY FREAKIN DAY

the whole point of esterized gear is not having to shoot ED---or else we would all be on Test Suspension

leave his cycle alone and give him a pat on the back for havin more sense than 90% of "experienced" users--much less some one who has never cycled before---and for actually putting some thought into his cycle

and before anyone twists off on me for this response--------please be ready to explain to everyone exactly what is wrong with this guy wanting stable and consistant blood levels of the gear he is going to use

and the EQ will be detectable for at least a year--maybe 18 months to be safe--but there are ways around that

[Dude-Man]

keep in mind that the advice directly above my post comes from someone that touts his ability to inject gear intravenously, and who things running an anti-estrogen with d-bol is a bad idea because it will inhibit gains.

[strongweapon]

i see you didnt explain why its bad to have a consistant and stable blood level during a cycle=moron!

just someone else with no common sense or self esteem needin' to start a squabble in cyberspace where its safe

[the dent depot]

I cringe at the ammounts that are being recommended to a 1st timer on gear. It's a shame people are so stuck on the more is better philosophy.

I'd recommend:

Test Prop only would do wonders, but if not for the possibility of potentially testing positive on a drug test...I'd say Test Cyp or Test Enan only for 10-12 weeks....350 or so mg/wk.

JMHO

D

[strongweapon]

i concur

however reading a recent article it is now noted that the more steroids you take the more receptors you grow to accomodate the dose--just like with nicotine and AcetylCholine receptors

the major probs i see with high doses for beginners is
1. you can grow off a liitle so why bother taking alot--at that point it is merely a waste of money

2.higher doses lead to rapid strength increases esp in beginners and ligaments/tendons/cartilage/bones cannot meet this demand and injuries are very likely

that being said---i know many big guys--body builders and powerlifters--and 3+ grams a week is pretty common

although most lie about it

[Pheedno]

his cycle looks fine--his logic is sound

everybody screamin' "prop ED--prop ED"

why in the heck would you guys have him shootin' a drug with a half life of 5 days EVERY FREAKIN DAY

the whole point of esterized gear is not having to shoot ED---or else we would all be on Test Suspension

leave his cycle alone and give him a pat on the back for havin more sense than 90% of "experienced" users--much less some one who has never cycled before---and for actually putting some thought into his cycle

and before anyone twists off on me for this response--------please be ready to explain to everyone exactly what is wrong with this guy wanting stable and consistant blood levels of the gear he is going to use

and the EQ will be detectable for at least a year--maybe 18 months to be safe--but there are ways around that

Do your research bro. ACTIVE LIFE of Prop is 4.5 days. Half life is about 27hrs. It takes roughly 4x the half-life to reach consistant blood plasma levels. Achieving the optimum consistant blood plasma levels is to shoot ED. EOD would be OK, but still would provide dips in levels

[Bartleby]

i agree way too much for a first cycle...stick with one compound like test for 10 wks....dont go overboard on ur first then youll need to keep adding more on future cycles...see how ur body reacts to just the test than next cycle add eq or something else jmo though.....peace

[TheSevnthWarrior]

i see you didnt explain why its bad to have a consistant and stable blood level during a cycle=moron!

just someone else with no common sense or self esteem needin' to start a squabble in cyberspace where its safe

Bad to have Stable Blood Levels???????
And Chris is a Moron?

[BUYLONGTERM]

Strong weapon everytime I see you post, I cringe. Your ADVISE IS HORRIBLE!


I hope the MODS/VETS are keeping a close eye out on you....

[TheSevnthWarrior]

Strong weapon everytime I see you post, I cringe. Your ADVISE IS HORRIBLE!


I hope the MODS/VETS are keeping a close eye out on you....

And from what I gather, that's exactly what he thinks about everybody else?
Hmmmm, kinda spooky.
(Yeah! I do my Prop every 4-5 days!....Please.)

[TheMudMan]

strongweapon

Stable blood levels are very important........ Hormonal roller coasters aren't fun and will kill your gains.

[BUYLONGTERM]

strongweapon

Stable blood levels are very important........ Hormonal roller coasters aren't fun and will kill your gains.

Common sense, but hey we are wrong he is right.

[TheSevnthWarrior]

strongweapon

Stable blood levels are very important........ Hormonal roller coasters aren't fun and will kill your gains.

Thank you.

[strongweapon]

appearantly no one can read

i said it IS IMPORTANT to have stable blood levels--that is why he is smart to both frontload and end load with the prop--while the enant is waxing and waning

i said if anyone wanted to debate the issue they would have to explain why it isnt

the Halflife is 4.5 days--i rounded up to 5 for simplicity--the active life is longer

it takes more than 27 hours for an esterized gear to completely leave the shot depot

have you ever taken a shot and still been sore the next day--the oil doesnt hurt--it cant--yourblood is full of lipids and they dont cause pain--it is the gear remaining in the depot after the oil is gone--the next day--and the day after--etc.

quote--it takes 4X the halflife to reach stable blood levels

NOT IF YOU FRONTLOAD

how can so many people be both wrong and adamant about imposing their lack of knowledge or experience on others

[Pheedno]

appearantly no one can read

i said it IS IMPORTANT to have stable blood levels--that is why he is smart to both frontload and end load with the prop--while the enant is waxing and waning

i said if anyone wanted to debate the issue they would have to explain why it isnt

the Halflife is 4.5 days--i rounded up to 5 for simplicity--the active life is longer

it takes more than 27 hours for an esterized gear to completely leave the shot depot

have you ever taken a shot and still been sore the next day--the oil doesnt hurt--it cant--yourblood is full of lipids and they dont cause pain--it is the gear remaining in the depot after the oil is gone--the next day--and the day after--etc.

quote--it takes 4X the halflife to reach stable blood levels

NOT IF YOU FRONTLOAD

how can so many people be both wrong and adamant about imposing their lack of knowledge or experience on others

Active life of a Propinate ester is 4.5 days. It's 10.5-12 for Enan, about 12-14 for Cyp, 15-17 for Dec, and 18-20 for Undec. Thats why you take clomid for PCT at the end of those. If it was the half life, you'd still have exogenous hormone in your system, making PCT worhtless at that point. With a 4.5 day half life, that puts active life at about 18 days. YOU DON"T START PCT 3WKS AFTER LAST INJECTION OF ANY HORMONE SUPENDED WITH A PROP ESTER, and you don't start pct with exogenous hormone still present

Half life is about 27hrs for prop, 4 days for Enan, a few hours more than Enan for cyp, 5 days for Dec, and about 6 days for undec ester.

Fastest time of release is at the injection. Soreness is an effect from BA & BB, not the hormone.

[TheSevnthWarrior]

"appearantly no one can read

i said it IS IMPORTANT to have stable blood levels"-- Originally Posted by strongweapon
"i see you didnt explain why its bad to have a consistant and stable blood level during a cycle=moron!"

OK, Brainiac...YOU READ IT!
YOU said yourself to Chris Adams that he didn't explain why it's BAD to HAVE consistant and stable Blood levels!

Either it's you yourself who can't read, or can't type what you meant to say?
Either way - YOU'RE WRONG!
I understand though, when I was fifteen, Everybody was Wrong and I was right!
In fact they should have made me President, because I was just like you... I KNEW EVERYTHING!

[Paranoid]

I think that this forum is awesome, a wealth of information, but I too notice the trend of SOME people to suggest amounts of gear to are unnecessarily too high. My first cycle I did 400mg of Test E. and 400mg of Deca for 10 weeks and gained 35lb (kept a little over 25lb). I think one has to really take into account prior cycle experience, age of user, and body weight. Not everyone needs at least a gram of AAS a week to grow!

[TheSevnthWarrior]

"Not everyone needs at least a gram of AAS a week to grow!"

I agree, but who said that?

[MR PHATT ASS]

...im too getting ready for an eq-test cycle..so this intrest me..i did a cycle roughly 2 yrs ago sust-deca...got 18lbs..so this next one i wanna try enanthate for my test choice..more stable than sust...ok..1st quest-couldnt test enanthate be stretched to 1 inject every 10 days? because of the active life??i'm not gonna do that but just was curious.whats the diff between half life and active life??..and it seems to me wouldnt everyone want to use cyp or enanth because it last long in your system??why are some peeps high on shooting ed or eod with prop..and i sorta see why now eveyone is not to high on sust and why it must be shot 3x per week for stable levels--true??...i've been on here for roughly 2 yrs but still very inexperienced in actual cycles (2) so sorry for the poss newbie quest..

[Pheedno]

...im too getting ready for an eq-test cycle..so this intrest me..i did a cycle roughly 2 yrs ago sust-deca...got 18lbs..so this next one i wanna try enanthate for my test choice..more stable than sust...ok..1st quest-couldnt test enanthate be stretched to 1 inject every 10 days? because of the active life??i'm not gonna do that but just was curious.whats the diff between half life and active life??..and it seems to me wouldnt everyone want to use cyp or enanth because it last long in your system??why are some peeps high on shooting ed or eod with prop..and i sorta see why now eveyone is not to high on sust and why it must be shot 3x per week for stable levels--true??...i've been on here for roughly 2 yrs but still very inexperienced in actual cycles (2) so sorry for the poss newbie quest..

You want to inject at least every half life. Active life is the amount of time the drug is in your system. Half- life is the amount of time before the drug is 50% depleted.
Say your injecting 100mg of prop ED
Day 1- 100mg
in 27hrs-50mg
in another 27 hrs-25mg
in another 27 hrs- 12.5mg
and so on

Now if you injected on the active life, you'd have close to zero amounts of the hormone in your system since you waited out the active life before another injection. Thats why PCT is based on active life, once the active life has run it's course, you can recover HPTA since the exogenous drug is no longer active in the body

[MR PHATT ASS]

You want to inject at least every half life. Active life is the amount of time the drug is in your system. Half- life is the amount of time before the drug is 50% depleted.
Say your injecting 100mg of prop ED
Day 1- 100mg
in 27hrs-50mg
in another 27 hrs-25mg
in another 27 hrs- 12.5mg
and so on

Now if you injected on the active life, you'd have close to zero amounts of the hormone in your system since you waited out the active life before another injection. Thats why PCT is based on active life, once the active life has run it's course, you can recover HPTA since the exogenous drug is no longer active in the body

..thanx for the fast reply..i'm sure that'll help out alot of peeps here.i think i'm smart by telling peeps in the gym they need clomid for pct and they ither dont know about it or dont believe it but you guys are the 'TRUE TECHNICIANS' of our sport..

[Paranoid]

"Not everyone needs at least a gram of AAS a week to grow!"

I agree, but who said that?

I am just making a general comment, based on what I have noticed on this board over the last few months.

[DANballs]

i see you didnt explain why its bad to have a consistant and stable blood level during a cycle=moron!

just someone else with no common sense or self esteem needin' to start a squabble in cyberspace where its safe

BAD TO HAVE STABLE BLOOD LEVELS DURING A CYCLE?? REALLY.. WOW THATS NEW TO ME!I GUESS YOU LIKE THE SIDE EFFECTS RELATED TO ROLLERCOASTER BLOOD LEVELS. D

[sp9]

Filtering out the junk here, this is actually a very informative thread.

PHEENDO - I love this link: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-...-half-life.asp

They say "active half life". I like the way you explained it. Any comments about how they worded that web page? They say half life is 4.5 where you refer to it as active life. Thanks for the clarification - great info.

[Pheedno]

It's either a typo or they are mixing the two up. I used to do that all the time

For instance if the half-life of Enan was 10.5 days as that site says, that would put active life at about 44 days, which means it wouldn't be feasible to start pct for a month and a half after last injection, This as we all know is incorrect.
An active life of 10.5(I actually think it's a range of 10-12) you begin pct 2wks post injection. Half-life being roughly 4 days, injections within that amount of time would render the most consistant blood plasma levels

[strongweapon]

once again i'll say

i said it was good to have stable blood levelsas i said in my first response

then ChrisAdams came talking smack--but couldnt debate anything i said--just talkin' smack--so in my second response i said

QUOTE--i see you didnt explain why its bad to have a consistant and stable blood level during a cycle=moron!

just someone else with no common sense or self esteem needin' to start a squabble in cyberspace where its safe

it was a sarcastic challenge--too bad i have to explain it to the grammatically challanged lot of ya

[50%Natural]

Actually, I agree, I shouldn't have made a comment about your character. I was in the wrong and erased my thread for it.

[TheSevnthWarrior]

Man you really have the nerve responding like that to me! I was just making a general comment based on what I have witnessed here, over the last year or so. It had nothing to do with your post. I just didn't want a newbie to fall into the fallacy that more is better. As for you making references to the integrity of my character, all I have to say is F_UCK YOU! You don't know me, and I won't have some punk like you offending me. Lastly, I would hardly call myself a hypocrite, having done 800mg of AAS a week, while professing not to fall into the mentality that a gram a week should be minimum. I don't usually resort to the baseless nature of name calling, but no other words could extrapolate the extent of anger caused by your ridiculous attack on me!

Girls, girls! That's quite enough!
Chill Ficken' out.
50, I understand Bro, and if you look up above earlier in the post you'll see I had already asked him "who sad that" cuz I was wondering myself - But he cleared it up Bro, he stated he was just making a general observation so I let it go thinking that was fair enough.
But Paranoid, You need to chill too Brother. I don't like to feel like I'm gettin' jumped on either, but look at Your Post...."Some People"....heck everybody who commented on anybody's cycle in the past couple weeks is Gonna wonder if you're talkin' about them!? I wondered, and I can assure you if you would have been, I'd have been all over you, the only difference between my reaction and 50's is I thought about it for a second, and decided to ask you first?
So maybe he jumped the gun just a bit, but you have to understand that he likes to give advice to people, and since he had just did it, he went straight to thinking you may be talking about him, so he got a bit defensive, he's Human too just like you.
You could have just said hey Bro, I wasn't talkin' about you, so chill...without all the F-You and Punk etc etc.
Now, both of you kiss and say your sorry!
And we'll have a nice Group Hug tomorrow @ 10:00 AM Kapish?

[TheSevnthWarrior]

Actually, I agree, I shouldn't have made a comment about your character. I was in the wrong and erased my thread for it.

Bigger Men do this....Good Job 50.

[50%Natural]

Also, sent you a pm paranoid. I see you haven't got it yet. Check it out.

[TheSevnthWarrior]

once again i'll say

i said it was good to have stable blood levelsas i said in my first response

then ChrisAdams came talking smack--but couldnt debate anything i said--just talkin' smack--so in my second response i said

QUOTE--i see you didnt explain why its bad to have a consistant and stable blood level during a cycle=moron!

just someone else with no common sense or self esteem needin' to start a squabble in cyberspace where its safe

it was a sarcastic challenge--too bad i have to explain it to the grammatically challanged lot of ya

He didn't debate because there's nothing to debate - He NEVER said ANYTHING referring to Blood Levels, let alone it being Good or bad to be stable, So AGAIN, he had nothing to debate.
And furthermore....you are foolish to assume that just because someone posts in "Cyberspace" does NOT mean they're only doing it here because they think it to be "Safe"... I can assure you, this is not a game I personally play.(I'm gonna let you Digest that one yourself)
Let it go man, right or Wrong at this point you are NOT helping your cause, and you are talking every bit as much "smack" as Anyone on this board.....Which can only lead to the thought that maybe it's YOU who feels "Safe"....
Think about it?

[Paranoid]

I too have deleted my post and would like to apologize for overreacting. Like I have mentioned in my PM to you 50%Natural, I was just making a general comment based on numerous cycle suggestions that I have witnessed here and on other forums about people suggesting excessive amounts of gear. Perhaps I phrased my post wrong, or did not get the right message across, but it was not directed at anyone in this thread.

[TheSevnthWarrior]

I too have deleted my post and would like to apologize for overreacting. Like I have mentioned in my PM to you 50%Natural, I was just making a general comment based on numerous cycle suggestions that I have witnessed here and on other forums about people suggesting excessive amounts of gear. Perhaps I phrased my post wrong, or did not get the right message across, but it was not directed at anyone in this thread.

Now see?
I for one feel Much Better!
We're all Bro's here...except Strongweapon, and I'm even gonna forgive him before I go to bed...and since I'm really tired - Strong, I forgive you.
Oh that's much better...remember, Group Hug @ 10:00AM Sharp!
Can't you just Feeeeeel the Love???!

[TheSevnthWarrior]

I too have deleted my post and would like to apologize for overreacting. Like I have mentioned in my PM to you 50%Natural, I was just making a general comment based on numerous cycle suggestions that I have witnessed here and on other forums about people suggesting excessive amounts of gear. Perhaps I phrased my post wrong, or did not get the right message across, but it was not directed at anyone in this thread.

Good Man.