P.C.T. Q's

**dutchboy** · 12-16-2003, 04:54 AM

ok, here's the deal. Just finished a 14 weeks of 500mgs deca and 875mgs of sust. with liquidex. I ran the sust two weeks past the deca and my last sust. shot was two weeks ago. So I know that starting in a week I need to start pct, for which I have clomid and nolvadex (and was planning the standard 21 day regimine). Does the nolvadex do anything other than act as a anti-aromatose? If not should I just continue using the l-dex and leave the nolva out, or switch, or what?
Thanks, any advise will be appreciated.
Dutch

Oh yeah, I also put on a little chub and was wondering how long to wait before running clen . I know clen has anti-catabolic qualities, and was wondering if I should start soon or wait for my hormone levels to straighten back out.

**ddoublevision** · 12-16-2003, 06:23 AM

I think running both is great(nolva + clomid). I have gotten advice that nolva will prevent and estragen rebound, while clomid restores the natural test- therefore helping keep gains.

Not positive about the clen , this link might help you out there
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=23808

**TheMudMan** · 12-16-2003, 06:46 AM

Start PCT 3 weeks after your last SUS injection

Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 2 - 30 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 31 - 37 20mg Nolva

You can start using clen the day you start PCT to help with energy levels but I would wait until about a month after PCT to start cutting.

**lucky27** · 12-16-2003, 09:39 AM

don't use l-dex during pct, it can hinder your recovery

**N4cer** · 12-16-2003, 10:19 AM

Nolvadex is NOT an aromatase inhibitor. Read the link in my signature. That should tell you to trash that Clomid crap.

***Pheedno*** · 12-16-2003, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by N4cer

Nolvadex is NOT an aromatase inhibitor. Read the link in my signature. That should tell you to trash that Clomid crap.

The clomid/Nolva debate has, and will be going on forever. I find recovery faster with clomid, but I do use both.

**dutchboy** · 12-16-2003, 11:38 AM

Thanks a bunch guys.

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 12-17-2003, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by N4cer

Nolvadex is NOT an aromatase inhibitor. Read the link in my signature. That should tell you to trash that Clomid crap.

I could write an article, but I'll just say, if Nolva was all there was, I'd probably quit.

**N4cer** · 12-17-2003, 07:16 AM

So you're saying that William Llewelyn doesn't know his ****?

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 12-17-2003, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by N4cer

So you're saying that William Llewelyn doesn't know his ****?

OK, ...that's not what I said, but hey, he's not my Hero, so...sure.

Imagine this.
Let's say for years you and your friends, are all hard workers, and are no stranger to intense pain, you've all had your fair share of injuries.
Now, you've tried every easily availible pain med under the Sun, then one day you try Vicodin, and Wha La, something actually works for once, and you've all decided that Vicodin is best. Consider this has been common knowledge for quite sometime.
Then you get around a certain click of people who constantly debate between which is better, the new Champion Vicodin, or Advil????

At this point you are trippin' heavy. You're not familiar with the "Science" of it all, but you're more than familiar with the drugs themselves and how they effect you. And You don't understand how anyone would consider Advil to be anywhere near the equal of the Vicodin. And to confuse you even more, they keep tossing up this "Scientific" info to support their cause, and upon reading it you think suprisingly it seems to sound legit?
But wait, you've had injuries for years! Advil sucks....you KNOW this, you've used it many times, it takes the edge off....it's not completely worthless, you've always got some around the house, but it doesn't REALLY "work"....it won't take the pain away like the label says.?? You've never spent any time searching Medical Studies because you've never had a need to, in fact until now you've never met anyone who would dare put the two on the same level, the advil is a good & cheap anti-inflamatory, but not much of a real "Pain Killer."
This is what it's like for me. Years of having Pain and using Advil, then one day Vicodin comes along, and I finally having something that works, then I find people that say the old Advil I suffered with for years is better??
So you can show me studies until your Navy Blue in the face, and I can show you many that counter it, but what matters to me is what takes place in the real world, After the Science. If the numbers tell you good things are happening, but the Mirror say's something different....Mirror wins.
Back in the "Good 'Ole Days" Clomid wasn't popular, at least not around where I grew up, HCG & Nolva was all we had (and tons of natural stuff) and on occasion HCG was hard to find, leaving you with just Nolva...not good.
I can remember eatin' like a Monster and munchin' up to 100mg a day of Nolva...panicing, trying to keep 4 months of gains from melting off!
My first Clomid experience was a great time, I couldn't believe it, it was the missing link in my opinion. I never had seen my balls bounce back so quickly.
So you can see why this whole debate seems so silly to me.
I run Nolva practically all year, and up it considerably during PCT, and wouldn't forge the PCT stream without it, it's a welcomed teamate, but it Certainly cannot "Carry the Team".

**TheMudMan** · 12-17-2003, 11:02 AM

I agree....... Clomid is the backbone of PCT and I use Nolva to help in the process of recovery.......... I even use tribulus in the mix now good tip from a very good bro

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 12-17-2003, 11:03 AM

BYW, I just read your little link there, I've seen it before, and I must admit it certainly does sound convincing.
However, I can only do what's right for me, so Nolva will forever have to play nice with the Clomid or go home.

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 12-17-2003, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

I agree....... Clomid is the backbone of PCT and I use Nolva to help in the process of recovery.......... I even use tribulus in the mix now good tip from a very good bro

My view Exactly.

I will always use HCG , but aside from that it's Clomid/Nolva/Tribulus, at least until something better comes along.

**N4cer** · 12-17-2003, 10:29 PM

I agree with you. Everyone is different, and some compounds work much better than others. So we use what works best for us as individuals. I didn't mean to make it sound like a rule. LOL.

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 12-18-2003, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by N4cer

So you're saying that William Llewelyn doesn't know his ****?

, but I will tell you from real world experience Id prefer Clomid over Nolva anyday.

Ive seen the so called studies that Will likes to throw out, and there are probally just as many as for clomid..so it makes little difference. They are both SERMS and both work quite similar. Why even mess with deciding which one is better when ultimately they are both dirt cheap and you can run both without interaction.

**dutchboy** · 12-18-2003, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate

, but I will tell you from real world experience Id prefer Clomid over Nolva anyday.

Ive seen the so called studies that Will likes to throw out, and there are probally just as many as for clomid..so it makes little difference. They are both SERMS and both work quite similar. Why even mess with deciding which one is better when ultimately they are both dirt cheap and you can run both without interaction.

My thoughts excatly BB. So is everyone in agreement that if you are gonna play it safe and use both to use the dosing schedule that MUD recommended?
and maybe add some trib....if so how much?