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This keeps coming up from the vets and mods, so I figure its a really good idea. So who administers HCG like this? Would a monday thursday split be a great idea?? Would there be a change in the PCT? How long would the HCG be used, through the PCT or up to it? And would some nolva ED still be a great idea? Thanks for the help.
-MS
I run it Mon/Tues at 500. usually for about the 2nd half of the cycle(If atrophy is present).
HCG should not be run with PCT, it will inhibit recovery.
I always run Nolva and L-dex
how many ius is one cc? :blush:
i know there has been many long debates about this as well, and im not trying to hijack your thread, but i am asking that everyone just say how they inject IM or sub-q.....no debating or arguing, just tell how you do it....thanks
ive always heard sub-q is better, but have heard that IM works as well
Dont worry about hi-jacking, we are all here to learn :)
OK, I am presently doing the 500 iu's a day, 2 x a week on cycle and very happy. My nuts came back immediately and have not crawled north since.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
I was in the minority shooting it im until this cycle which I am doing sub Q. Other than the different sensation of the sub Q, it is working well.
As for iu's per ml, it depends on the gear you have. I am using Gonaker which is 2500 IU which comes with 10 ml of solution. I only mix in 5 ml so my iu per ml is 500.
ok i would like to add something i am just doing a 8 week Sus 500mg and Deca 400 mg cycle my nuts have gone up a little bit definitely noticable they're my nuts you know, but how much is enough to start using hcg, just curious bro, i have 3 weeks left of shots, let me know
what if the person has testicular athropy can HCG and CLOMID
help?
I am using like this,
14 weeks of test at 750 wk.
last shot of test = first of ten shots of hcg a day at 1000 i.u.'s wait 7 days and start clomid. nolva for symptoms should they arise.
As far as I know using HCG like this will keep your nuts working. I think you can use HCG the doses would be different, but Im not really clear how to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by hector999
I have some slin pinz they are 1/3 ML, I was just hoping that I can use those... more reading then....
-MS
i will be doing this at 400 i.u. every 4th day of my cycle, which will start next week. i just ordered 30ml's of biostatic water to mix my 5000 i.u. with so i can get 400 i.u./ml. it originally would have been a 5000i.u./ml. but im gonna delute it and then put it in a 20ml sealed vial to use over the next 12 weeks of my cycle. then wait 2 weeks and start pct. whooo hooo, i cant wait lol Tren and EQ here i come
its good to use the hcg during the cycle so your nuts never have a chance to run away lol, and it will make it easier for them to respond to the clomid in your pct
so no test?Quote:
Originally Posted by jcstomper
nope, i dont plan on gaining any weight really, well maybe like 5 pounds, ill just be dropping body fat and getting more strength. ill post before and after pics, and have a full diary in the cycles forum
i will not say that i'm been ignored just,
u guys dont have the answer.....
ok the hcg can help if you have atropathy but you dont wanna run both clomid and hcg together. hcg stops the atropathy from happening if you use it in a cycleQuote:
Originally Posted by REM
REM can you explain what you mean>?
Do not use clomid and HCG together.
You use clomid to stimulate LH. HCG mimicks LH. If the body detects LH(from the HCG) it will not stimulate natrual production
there you go REM you got your question answered twice lol
I don't know if you saw this or not, but I posted it a few days ago. It may help answer your question. It was written by a doctor that works with steroid users.
I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).
If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.
The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.
I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.
I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).
All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
Mr. Death, reading that article is one of the reasons I made this thread.
bump for the night crew, any one else do this?
I know skii96 has done a method similar to this. You might want to talk to him. He said it worked well for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
Dr Swale wrote that I believe and its pretty much what I use as well.
I usually, starting around wk 12 will shoot 500ius 2 consecutive days a week. I usually shoot every other week though instead of every week and it is adequate for atrophy purposes, that is until in the future I feel I need more
mr. sparkle, i no that by using HCG during the cycle can prevent
test athropy then if ur natural test is shutdown then u take clomid the
proper way to bring ur levels up again but,
what i like to no is, if the person did not HCG and clomid during or after
cycle then he will take it later, will HCG and CLOMID can still do their
work?
im 500ius a week for entire cycle
I've used it before and intend to use it tonite -one week into a prop cycle and I've already shrunk 1/2cm!
I'll do it 2 days/week in succession throughout the cycle. Keep in mind you only need it if you get shrinkage.
Personally I can't stand the way my nads feel when they shrink and HCG makes them feel normal again. And it's amazing how fast they grow back on the stuff.
I've heard people recommend Nolvadex with it, only with higher HCG doses, to prevent gyno since it does cause a test spike.
You can use it 2x a week or e4d, the idea is to prevent athorpy. The old school way was to restore the boys by using hcg. HCG has a half life of 64 hours so ed shots are pointless IMO. HCG can produce estrogen too, so don't use high doses.
But all in all find what works for you and use it.
JohnnyB
When you reconstitute the stuff, make sure all the water is in the BOTTOM of the ampule and not half stuck up in the top.
I couldn't figure out why I only got six .10ml syringes full!
thanks for the info guys
It sure is nice to be able to play with my balls again... it only took 10000 i.u.'s to plump them up!!
Does HCG serve any other purposes other then testicular atophy? I am interested in using it.
Yea I posted Dr Swales protocal on Ar. It is what I use and works perfectly.
Wow I have learned a whole lot from when I started this thread... lol Im laughing at how dumb I used to be...
Swales is two days in a row right? E4D works great for me...
how do you measure 2,500iu or 3,000iu on milliliter (ml) injections?
Does someone know a link or a thread that talks about this?
Mr. Juice
You measure it out in a slin pin... and most kits are 1000 ius per one ML... although you can change the concentration, but for the sake of argument think of it that way
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consistency
Not really for our purposes. Although when using it some claim experience better gains, which makes sense because our bodies, while already having supraphysiological Testosterone levels from exogenous mechanisms (injecting Test), will be producing testosterone from LH stimulation. In essence, you are running more testosterone. It is really unecessary to use HCG for these purposes alone because it would be better to just raise the testosteroe dosages. Some may actually use HCG as a bridge between cycles or as an extended bridge up to PCT. I don't recommend this because HCG is suppressive of HTPA and it is suspected that prolonged and/or excessive use can lead to the body's complete inhibition of gonadtrophin stimulation. It would be better to run low doses of a short estered Testosterone for these purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Consistency
In the end, for our purposes it is best to keep with very mild doses of 500iu's 2x week or E4D to avoid testicular atrophy and to make PCT go much smoother.
Anyone feel free to add more.
P.S. Does anyone have any input on swales ideas on not using AI's during PCT. I know he is an HRT doc, but I disagree. Ldex or Femara used together with Nolva will help keep lipid profiles in check. AI's help significantly with LH stimulation, and when used with Nolva, they can be very helpful to a very quick Post Cycle Recovery. Feel free to disagree.
on long cycles like the 20 weeker im on - I was running it every Mon-am Thu-pm 500IU per shot. Now I am just taking 500IU 1 x week. I am concerned about desensitizing my response to LH by prolonged HCG use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeefCakeStew
Bump for this...I'm interested as well...
Styles. Check out what Einstein has to say on Post #20. Very informative thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by styles-money
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...587#post721587