Anabolic Member
I'm planning on doing a MAJOR Cutter in about 8 weeks.
I was gonna hit some cyp, EQ, Winny, IGF, and some lipostbil.
I have enough for 10 sessions. When would you start?
LEt meknow any expriances.
And do you keep it in the fridge.
What did or does yours look like?
Is it clear or cloudy?
Thanks
Senior Member
BUMP
I am curious on lipostbil myself.
Anabolic Member
Anyone, anyone?
I got some lidocaine today, and some sensorcaine. Would that help ease the pain
Retired Moderator
most lipo is liquid pain, no matter what you do. cysol has a new almost painfree formula, the injections are really painless, but the lipo chemical itself will cause small welts and possible burises.
from what i am seeing right now, it looks like this stuff really works.
if you are going to use it in the next 30 days it is ok to leave out of the fridge, longer than that keep it there.
Anabolic Member
Cool thanks bro, any idea how much Lidocaine to use per area? I got 2 50ml bottles of Lidocaine?
Anabolic Member
Have you done it before or are you on right now? What does it look like? Color etc. I got mine from a research company. Its kinda cloudy, and separates after sitting for some time.
Retired Moderator
no my girl is using it, i tried some to see the pain factor before she would do it. i felt nothing at all, 2 days later the shot areas were a little tender.
the kind i have is the new recipe from cysol, not nearly as bad as what you have painwise. it is in oil and is a solution not a suspension like the old stuff was.
sorry don't know much about the lidoc
Anabolic Member
Is it cloudy, kinda whitish color?
thanx
Retired Moderator
no it is a clear yellowish oil based solutionOriginally Posted by Jdawg50
it is not a suspension so it is not cloudy
Anabolic Member
Gotcha, I'll tell ya how it goes
Anabolic Member
Info I found on a plastic surgery site:
LIPOPLASTY (LIPOSUCTION) WITHOUT SURGERY?
NEW YORK, NY (October 8, 2002) - It is the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery's (ASAPS') position that, currently, lipoplasty (liposuction) is the only proven method for the permanent reduction of fat deposits. Recently, however, there have been articles in popular consumer magazines describing the injection of phosphatidylcholine, a phospholipid that is known by the trade name of Lipostabil.
From the New York Magazine
By Beth Landman Keil
Just when we’d gotten used to the idea of Botox (well, sort of), along comes a new trendy injectable. Beauty junkies and their doctors are buzzing about Lipostabil, a liquid form of lecithin that’s shot directly into fat tissue, melting it as if it were on an internal George Foreman grill. “We started using it under the eyes,” explains Dr. Soren White, medical director at Skinclinic, the Upper East Side “medispa.” “Now we use it for hips and love handles.”
“Lipo dissolve,” as dermatologist Steven Victor calls it, is meant for areas too small for liposuction. Only topical anesthesia is required, and bruising lasts just a few days. It’s not yet approved by the FDA, upping the frisson factor, but Victor says that “in Europe and South America, they’ve been injecting it into the arteries for fifteen years.” “The result may be subtle,” says one woman, “but it’s a huge difference to me. In just two sessions, it tightened up my jawline.”
Some doctors are holding off (“We want more data,” says Alan Matarasso, a plastic surgeon) despite the cash-cow appeal: Three to five sessions are recommended, at about $1,000 each for upper arms and $1,500 each for the abdomen. “With lipo, you remove fat cells permanently,” says Howard Sobel, a dermatologist. “With these shots, we don’t know if it will come back.” Adds dermatologist Pat Wexler, “You’re not talking about getting rid of a huge stomach, and it’s a lot of money. But if you have it, flaunt it.”
Claims state that this substance dissolves fat without the need for surgical intervention. ASAPS cautions that the safety and effectiveness of this procedure are unproven.
Licensed physicians may legally offer treatments involving off-label uses of many pharmacologic substances, as long as such substances have been approved by the Food and Drug Administration for other uses and there is no specific prohibition of the intended off-label use. Currently, however, Lipostabil is not approved for any use in this country. In addition, there does not appear to be sufficient scientific and clinical data to substantiate the safety and effectiveness of phosphatidylcholine (Lipostabil) as a fat-dissolving treatment.
Lipostabil was not developed as a fat-dissolving agent. The only published study using phosphatidylcholine for this purpose treated only 30 patients (on their lower lids), with a maximum follow-up of two years. The published photographs demonstrating visible reduction of the very small amounts of excess fat contained in the lower eyelid seem promising, but the study lacked controls, and the results have yet to be duplicated in other peer-reviewed studies.
Specific questions regarding phosphatidylcholine (Lipostabil) should be answered before its safe use on patients can be assured:
How can it be assured that the appropriate amount of fat - neither too little nor too much -- is dissolved? (It should be noted that current techniques in cosmetic eyelid surgery tend to favor greater preservation of fat tissue in the lower eyelid, with optimal correction often achieved by a combination of minimal fat removal and repositioning or suturing of fatty tissues.)
If phosphatidylcholine dissolves fatty tissue, does it also dissolve other tissue? How is delivery of the substance limited to only the target tissues? While phosphatidylcholine is a naturally occurring compound that is present in the body, what problems might be encountered by adding an uncontrolled amount of the substance?
The injection of phosphatidylcholine into subcutaneous tissues can potentially trigger the release of enzymes (lipases), which break down lipids or act as an emulsifier or detergent to dissolve cell membranes and intracellular fats. Either of these mechanisms may trigger the release of histamines, which tend to produce itching and redness; these may be short-term side effects, but are there also long-term side-effects? Given the chemical makeup of the substance, is there the possibility that side-effects could include leakage of cell membranes or even cell death?
A great deal of the currently published research in aesthetic plastic surgery focuses on the development of minimally invasive procedures that can improve a patient's appearance with fewer risks and shorter recovery than traditional surgery. The way in which safety and effectiveness of new procedures is determined, in preparation for their widespread use in properly selected patients, is through careful scientific and clinical research. Such research is evaluated through publication of results in reputable, peer-reviewed medical journals and presentation of results at medical meetings such as those sponsored by ASAPS and other accredited Continuing Medical Education sponsors.
As the leading society of plastic surgeons certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery, who specialize in aesthetic (cosmetic) surgery, ASAPS believes that research into new cosmetic surgical and nonsurgical treatments with potential benefits to patients is important and should be conducted responsibly by qualified physicians, according to established scientific and ethical guidelines that are accepted medical practice in this country. If patients are involved in clinical trials of new procedures, they must be provided with adequate data for their full informed consent. The Aesthetic Surgery Research and Education Foundation (ASERF), in conjunction with ASAPS, observes these guidelines in funding research and evaluating new techniques/technology in order to help ensure patient safety and treatment efficacy.
As the leading provider of Continuing Medical Education in cosmetic plastic surgery to board-certified plastic surgeons, ASAPS encourages open-mindedness in regard to any new modalities, but the public must be cautious in regarding such treatments as "harmless" without scientific evidence of their safety and efficacy. It may take some time before important questions about the use of phosphatidylcholine for body contouring are answered by independent researchers.
Anabolic Member
Lipostabil
People in the know are talking about the latest (alleged) miracle fat buster gaining popularity, and it’s called Lipostabil. Plug the word Lipostabil into any internet search engine and you’ll net hundreds of hits that match what is being touted as the injectable answer to liposuction. Then it hits you; nearly all of them are penned in a language other than English and originate outside of the United States. Why?
While those seeking a sleeker waistline, less of a double chin, or an end to saddlebags may be chatting up the promise of this fat dissolving elixir, the Food and Drug Administration hasn’t made a peep. In fact, they have yet to receive an application from the maker, Aventis, the gigantic French pharmaceutical company, for approval in the United States.
It is not that the drug itself hasn’t been approved overseas. Lipostabil is phosphatidylcholine, a liquid form of lecithin, an enzyme which occurs naturally in the body. It was first used in the 1950s to dial down climbing cholesterol and triglyceride numbers and is approved for use, according to the manufacturer, in Brazil, Germany, Italy and South America.
It took Brazilian dermatologist, Patricia Rittes, widely credited with pioneering the treatment often called Lipo-Dissolve, to reincarnate the drug as a pathway to physical perfection. After experimental use as an injectable fat-dissolver by doctors overseas such as Rittes, it started to make its way stateside. Thanks to some anecdotal evidence and off label usage, a few doctors in the United States are now injecting surgery-shy but eager patients in order to send their eye bags packing, whittle pudgy upper arms and reduce other areas often too small to treat with liposuction. You may remember that wrinkle busting Retin-A was only FDA approved as an acne treatment for years before it could claim its wrinkle reducing charms. However, doctors were prescribing it to their creased and lined, albeit unblemished, patients for years before it got the FDA stamp of approval. The same is true for Botox. Doctors found it helped reduce the appearance of wrinkles and used it for that off label purpose before it got the FDA go-ahead to claim it could tame wrinkles. But, Retin-A and Botox were FDA approved drugs. Lipostabil is not approved for any use in the United States. Aventis notes that they did not develop the drug for the popular use it’s currently gaining across the globe.
So, how does Lipostabil work? Depending on the area and the desired results, a patient gets injected with the drug at the trouble site or sites spaced over the course of several weeks. A topical anesthetic is used at the injection site. One may experience some side effects like mild swelling and bruising or itching at the injection site. Then the patient waits a couple of weeks and goes back in for another round of shots. After the treatments are over and the swelling subsides, one should find a new, fat free area in its wake thanks to the fat dissolving properties of the drug. Because no official protocols have been established, how many shots you need depends upon what your doctor advises. How much of the drug to use has been determined by trial and error.
You only need a couple of shots to get rid of that stubborn slab of abdominal flab? Sounds fuss free, and it is... sort of. The snag is that we don’t know more than we do know about this treatment. Random calls to dermatologists and other doctors didn’t net a single one who is currently using the drug, although several dermatologists and other doctors have gone on record in the media that they’re performing the treatment. What’s more, testing of the procedure has been limited to just one 30 person (non-peer reviewed, without a control group) study performed in Brazil testing how the drug worked on the small amounts of fat that make up under-eye bags. Photos from the study do show an improvement, but the results have not been duplicated nor scrutinized in other studies.
The American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery has gone so far as to issue a statement questioning the use of Lipostabil adding the only proven method to permanently remove fat deposits is liposuction. The ASAPS also questions how practitioners will evaluate how much fat is to be removed and raises the issues of whether the drug dissolves other tissue as well, how the body will react to the introduction of an increase in a naturally occurring substance and the potential unknown side effects.
For some, the unknown may be offset by what we do know and the promise of dissolving fat. Anecdotal evidence shows it can ditch an inch or more of fat off your waist, arms or thighs and flatten under eye bags or the chin "wattle." Lipostabil injections may also help with the curse of cellulite, the puckering orange-peel skin that plagues 9 out of 10 women. Some doctors are injecting the drug to dissolve this stubborn fat that often shows up on the back of thighs and the buttocks.
How much will the procedure cost you? Figure on $1,000 to $1,500 per session depending on the part of the body being treated (e.g.- the stomach will cost more than the arms). Also, don’t forget you’ll need several, as many as ten, sessions to get the desired results. Don´t expect to just lay out cash for a new physique. Lipostabil is best used for small areas, whereas liposuction can treat larger areas and remove more fat.
Karmen B. Saran
Contributing writer to DERMAdoctor.com.
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