2 DNP Questions

**BrownBomber** · 02-19-2004, 11:53 AM

I know how the vast majority of you feel about this chemical. And I agree w/ you. However, if one is educated on the use of it more power to him. With that out of the way I have a few questions...

1) Since high-gi carbs from fructose are the "optimal" carbs to consume while on DNP would it be a good idea to consume nothing but fructose to fullfill your carb intake? Wouldnt this jack your insulkin levels sky high and lead to fat gain?

2) From everything I read the C50%/P35%/F15% diet is the ONLY way to go. And I understand the reasoning behind it. Yet I still see the ocasional post that says one should lower their carbs and fats if they wish to lose weight while on DNP....." Carbs are IMMEDIATLY broken down and burned increasing your temp. Keep carbs low. With no carb intake, fat is massacred (DNP is muscle sparing)." If its so fckin obv. why do they insist that a low carb diet is the way to go? If one is sensitive to carbs (such as myself) and gains fat easliy when consuming them should they follow a low carb diet

?

Thanks
BB

**razor67** · 02-19-2004, 12:02 PM

have you read the guide by fonz and macro. i dont know much about it myself.. never considered using it.

http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...d.php?p=747671

**BrownBomber** · 02-19-2004, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by razor67

have you read the guide by fonz and macro. i dont know much about it myself.. never considered using it.

http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...d.php?p=747671

Yes I have and its a great thread by the way!!!

BB

**LuvMuhRoids** · 02-19-2004, 12:16 PM

It's debatable how to use DNP correctly. Both low carbs and simple carbs are both a technique. It's up to you. I for one carb depleted few days before but afterwards ate as much as I wanted. The idea behind the carb theory is raising temp. More carbs higher the temp. In my opinion doesn't matter. The DNP is doing this anyways. It's just how you want to make the DNP more beneficial and utilize it properly.

**einstein1905** · 02-19-2004, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by LuvMyRoids

It's debatable how to use DNP correctly. Both low carbs and simple carbs are both a technique. It's up to you. I for one carb depleted few days before but afterwards ate as much as I wanted. The idea behind the carb theory is raising temp. More carbs higher the temp. In my opinion doesn't matter. The DNP is doing this anyways. It's just how you want to make the DNP more beneficial and utilize it properly.

I agree with this.
You can even do a pseudo short term keto diet. Let your mitochondria just use amino acids when they run out of sugars.

**RON** · 02-19-2004, 12:36 PM

For one thing fructose will help normalize thyroid levels. I am supplementing t-3 in my cycle because DNP will use up all your natural production. For another thing like Mr FED said the more carbs the hotter you get. 50/35/15 is a good general guideline but its only that. Take your temp regularly and change your diet accordingly

**LuvMuhRoids** · 02-19-2004, 12:40 PM

Anyone read RON's post? I can't see it for some reason. All i see is this line through it. Can you guy's tell him I miss him and say hi for me?

<-------Take that RON

Originally Posted by RON

For one thing fructose will help normalize thyroid levels. I am supplementing t-3 in my cycle because DNP will use up all your natural production. For another thing like Mr FED said the more carbs the hotter you get. 50/35/15 is a good general guideline but its only that. Take your temp regularly and change your diet accordingly

**Mealticket** · 02-19-2004, 12:57 PM

I justed conatacted my source for dnp caps

**RON** · 02-19-2004, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by LuvMyRoids

Anyone read RON's post? I can't see it for some reason. All i see is this line through it. Can you guy's tell him I miss him and say hi for me?

<-------Take that RON

Just don't take me to jail sir

**BrokenBricks** · 02-19-2004, 12:59 PM

a benifit of eating a moderate amount of carbs is that it can be harder to OD on on DNP . DNP temporarily screws ATP synthase, which (as far ia ive ever learned) is the sole enzyme for making ATP from fat and protien. But a small amount of ATP is made from sugars without ATP synthase, in glycolysis. The rest of the ATP generated form carbs would be dependant on ATP synthase. This would mean that no matter how much DNP you took you could still generate some ATP. Maybe not enough to keep you alive, but enough to make the threshold for death higher.

**einstein1905** · 02-19-2004, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

a benifit of eating a moderate amount of carbs is that it can be harder to OD on on DNP. DNP temporarily screws ATP synthase, which (as far ia ive ever learned) is the sole enzyme for making ATP from fat and protien. But a small amount of ATP is made from sugars without ATP synthase, in glycolysis. The rest of the ATP generated form carbs would be dependant on ATP synthase. This would mean that no matter how much DNP you took you could still generate some ATP. Maybe not enough to keep you alive, but enough to make the threshold for death higher.

This is correct, but just to clarify....DNP reduces the efficiency of ATP synthase (it's an uncoupling agent). It won't shut down ATP synthesis via ATP synthase completely. It simply makes your mitochondria "work" that much harder to synthesize each ATP, thereby expending more energy, increasing heat------>raising body temp.

**BrownBomber** · 02-19-2004, 01:19 PM

Heres a few posts that I got...

"CARBS DO NOT MAKE DNP WORK BETTER, THEY JUST VANISH INTO THIN AIR IF U EAT THEM BUT THEY DO TAKE TIME TO BURN AND THEY DO HALF FAT LOSS WHILE BEING BURNED SINCE WE ALL KNOW BODY BURNS GLUCOSE #1, FAT #2

(dIETARY GLUCOSE FIRST THEN STORED GLUCOSE #2, THEN DIETARY FAT #1 THEN STORED FAT #2)

HENCE TO GET TO STORED FAT U CUT OFF CARBS U CUTT OFF FAT AND UR THERE

HENCE KETOSIS.

DNP ALONE BLOCKS INSULIN SO WHAT HAPPENS? GLUCAGON RISES AND ACUSES KETOSIS. SO ENTERING KETOSIS IN ADVANCE IS EVEN BETTER AND EATING LOW CARB WILL YIELD MUCH BETTER RESULTS.

POANTREX HAS BEEN SHAFTED AS THE PROOF HAS BEEN LAID DOWN TO HIM PROVING THAT CARBS DO NOT PROMOTE FAT LOSS ON DNP , THEY HINDER FAT LOSS.

ONLY REASON CARBS ARE BETTER THAN HIGH FAT ON DNP IS BECAUSE THEY ARE WASTED INTO HEAT. BUT BETTER JUST TO CUT THEM OFF INSTEAD OF WASTING THEM INTO HEAT AND WASTING DNP AND METABOLIC TIME .

WHAT ARE 2 THINGS THAT MAKE PEOPLE FAT. CARBS AND FAT
CUT THEM BOTH. AND UR LOSING WEIGHT.

CARB DEPLETE 3 DAYS ADVANCE, EAT LOW CARBS, LOW FAT, PROTEIN HIGH SUPER HIGH ON DNP AND MIRACLES WILL HAPPEN.

did u see lyle mcdonald dnp diary? he did 400mg powder for 5 days and 100mcg T3 for 5 days. he ate maintenance, he ONLY LOST 2LB OF FAT .

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=d...edge.net&rnum=1

U ONLY EAT CARB WHEN U HIT HYPO. (PEPSI)

POANTREX HAS BEEN ROYALLY DISSED.

AND HE KNOWS IM RIGHT AND FONZ HIMSELF SAID CARBS ARE ONLY GOOD DUE TO CALORIC DISSIPATION (WASTED INTO HEAT) THEY DO NOT PROMOTE FAT LOSS BUT INDIRECTLY THEY PROMOTE MORE CALORIC DEFICIT DUE TO WASTE OF HEAT. BUT INSTEAD OF SUFFERING IN HEAT AND WASTING TIME TO BURN THEM FEW HOURS OF BFAT BURNING WASTED BURNING CARBS, CUT THEM OFF AND ULL BURN 24/7 FAT ADIPOSE TISSUE.

THANKS AGAIN. IM RIGHT.

So if ur experienced ull do Carb deplete(Glycogen) enter ketosis, take DNP , eat low carb, low fat and high protein below maintenance calories and pepsi if u hit Hypo. and ur done. thast when DNP WILL DO MAGIC , as ketones will pump at an alarming rate.

ull see ur gut dissapear infront of ur eyes."

**BrokenBricks** · 02-19-2004, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

This is correct, but just to clarify....DNP reduces the efficiency of ATP synthase (it's an uncoupling agent). It won't shut down ATP synthesis via ATP synthase completely. It simply makes your mitochondria "work" that much harder to synthesize each ATP, thereby expending more energy, increasing heat------>raising body temp.

If you take enough, you will destory the H+ gradient and therfore zero ATP will be produced in the mitochondria. I suposse you may die before you get to that point but it there is no reason to think that it wouldnt happen.

**BrownBomber** · 02-19-2004, 01:24 PM

This is gettin a bit technical for me but Ill get it!! So in this situation ATP is needed for fat loss or is it needed to prevent, well, death? And w/o carbs I will have no ATP???

Im a bit slow

BB

**BrokenBricks** · 02-19-2004, 01:37 PM

ATP is needed for survival. Food energy is stored like water in a dam by H+ ions in the mirochondria. That energy is used to make ATP. DNP disperses that energy from H+ as heat. So your body burns fat to keep the H+ levels high enough, and to stay producing enough ATP. If you take too much DNP your body cannot break down fat fast enough and the H+ gets decresed to such a level that enough ATP cannot be made quickly enough. You die. Carbs have the advantage of supplying a small amunt of ATP by a different unaffected mechanism. So it buffers you from overdose. Or so the theory goes. It would not accelerate fat loss. Only calorie reduction would.

**LuvMuhRoids** · 02-19-2004, 01:40 PM

Yep, that's exactly right!

Originally Posted by einstein1905

This is correct, but just to clarify....DNP reduces the efficiency of ATP synthase (it's an uncoupling agent). It won't shut down ATP synthesis via ATP synthase completely. It simply makes your mitochondria "work" that much harder to synthesize each ATP, thereby expending more energy, increasing heat------>raising body temp.

**einstein1905** · 02-19-2004, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by BrownBomber

Heres a few posts that I got...

"CARBS DO NOT MAKE DNP WORK BETTER, THEY JUST VANISH INTO THIN AIR IF U EAT THEM BUT THEY DO TAKE TIME TO BURN AND THEY DO HALF FAT LOSS WHILE BEING BURNED SINCE WE ALL KNOW BODY BURNS GLUCOSE #1, FAT #2

(dIETARY GLUCOSE FIRST THEN STORED GLUCOSE #2, THEN DIETARY FAT #1 THEN STORED FAT #2)

HENCE TO GET TO STORED FAT U CUT OFF CARBS U CUTT OFF FAT AND UR THERE

HENCE KETOSIS.

DNP ALONE BLOCKS INSULIN SO WHAT HAPPENS? GLUCAGON RISES AND ACUSES KETOSIS. SO ENTERING KETOSIS IN ADVANCE IS EVEN BETTER AND EATING LOW CARB WILL YIELD MUCH BETTER RESULTS.

POANTREX HAS BEEN SHAFTED AS THE PROOF HAS BEEN LAID DOWN TO HIM PROVING THAT CARBS DO NOT PROMOTE FAT LOSS ON DNP , THEY HINDER FAT LOSS.

ONLY REASON CARBS ARE BETTER THAN HIGH FAT ON DNP IS BECAUSE THEY ARE WASTED INTO HEAT. BUT BETTER JUST TO CUT THEM OFF INSTEAD OF WASTING THEM INTO HEAT AND WASTING DNP AND METABOLIC TIME .

WHAT ARE 2 THINGS THAT MAKE PEOPLE FAT. CARBS AND FAT
CUT THEM BOTH. AND UR LOSING WEIGHT.

CARB DEPLETE 3 DAYS ADVANCE, EAT LOW CARBS, LOW FAT, PROTEIN HIGH SUPER HIGH ON DNP AND MIRACLES WILL HAPPEN.

did u see lyle mcdonald dnp diary? he did 400mg powder for 5 days and 100mcg T3 for 5 days. he ate maintenance, he ONLY LOST 2LB OF FAT .

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=d...edge.net&rnum=1

U ONLY EAT CARB WHEN U HIT HYPO. (PEPSI)

POANTREX HAS BEEN ROYALLY DISSED.

AND HE KNOWS IM RIGHT AND FONZ HIMSELF SAID CARBS ARE ONLY GOOD DUE TO CALORIC DISSIPATION (WASTED INTO HEAT) THEY DO NOT PROMOTE FAT LOSS BUT INDIRECTLY THEY PROMOTE MORE CALORIC DEFICIT DUE TO WASTE OF HEAT. BUT INSTEAD OF SUFFERING IN HEAT AND WASTING TIME TO BURN THEM FEW HOURS OF BFAT BURNING WASTED BURNING CARBS, CUT THEM OFF AND ULL BURN 24/7 FAT ADIPOSE TISSUE.

THANKS AGAIN. IM RIGHT.

So if ur experienced ull do Carb deplete(Glycogen) enter ketosis, take DNP , eat low carb, low fat and high protein below maintenance calories and pepsi if u hit Hypo. and ur done. thast when DNP WILL DO MAGIC , as ketones will pump at an alarming rate.

ull see ur gut dissapear infront of ur eyes."

Just because someone writes in all caps, doesn't make it all true.
DNP doesn't "block" insulin". I agree with most of the above. In a carb depleted state, your body will turn to fat stores AND the amino acids that you're taking in in excess. Converting amino acids into usable substrate for mitochondria is in itself an energy-utilizing process, which increases the effectiveness of DNP + high protein.

I'm not sure it's ever been shown that DNP, in high enough doses, will completely throw off the proton gradient and cease production of ATP altogether.

Body temp increase is also dose-dependent (DNP) to a degree (within a range). I don't think it's been shown that if 500mgs causes a 1.5 degree change, then 1gram will cause a 3 degree increase.

**BrokenBricks** · 02-19-2004, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

I'm not sure it's ever been shown that DNP, in high enough doses, will completely throw off the proton gradient and cease production of ATP altogether.

Its called death....

**BrownBomber** · 02-19-2004, 02:16 PM

Excellent info. guys!! Would a 55% protein/ 35% carb/ 10% fat diet be acceptable? I would consume around 2500 cals a day....

Protein-345 per day
Carbs-220 per day
Fat- 25 per day

or

Carbs-345
Protein-220
Fat-25
Sound good? Any changes or tips?

Thanks
BB

**BrokenBricks** · 02-19-2004, 02:41 PM

I dunno, stick with low doeses and eat whatever you want under maintnance calories and you shouldnt have a problem. Your first cycle is not time to see the max fat you can lose.

**einstein1905** · 02-19-2004, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

Its called death....

It's all in vitro

**BrokenBricks** · 02-20-2004, 12:18 AM

The question was "can DNP totaly eliminate the proton gradient"

the answer is yes. You take a mega dose and it will happen. Now will your brain stay alive untill though the hour or two it take to do it, nope. But what does that have to do with anything. This was a discussion about the mechanism of DNP action. And the mechanism is directly analogous to punching holes in a dam. Punch enough holes and you the water levels will meet. Same thing with mitochondria.

**BrokenBricks** · 02-20-2004, 12:19 AM

I hope i dont sound coarse or anything, i like these sorts of talks.

**einstein1905** · 02-20-2004, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

The question was "can DNP totaly eliminate the proton gradient"

the answer is yes. You take a mega dose and it will happen. Now will your brain stay alive untill though the hour or two it take to do it, nope. But what does that have to do with anything. This was a discussion about the mechanism of DNP action. And the mechanism is directly analogous to punching holes in a dam. Punch enough holes and you the water levels will meet. Same thing with mitochondria.

I love this stuff too, but the point is that to test if any megadoses of DNP would completely shut down the proton gradient, they would have to isolate mitos and do it in vitro. It's not possible in vivo because the subject would die well before the proton gradient was completely disrupted.
I just said I don't think this has ever been tested. It's simply your theory that it will continue to decrease the efficiency of the mechanism. It's not very important, but if you have a paper that shows this, I'd be interested in seeing it.

**BrownBomber** · 02-20-2004, 02:35 PM

Fellas,

If I want optimal fat buring while on DNP should I consume all of my crabs in the form of fructose......"Using DNP is the only time that fructose is a desireable cutting carb, because it keeps the liver replentished. That reduces lethargy and spares muscle."

Woulnt simple sugars cause an insulin spike causing some fat gain? If one consumed nothing but low-GI carbs (oats, beans, etc.) would they still burn fat?

What would you do?

Thanks Again!!!!
BB