Liver Damage -- How Long to Repair?

**woodiechopper** · 02-23-2004, 09:39 PM

I am showing elevated liver values for AST and ALT: AST 80/ALT 165. Other liver indicators are normal. These have been elevated for a few months now. I gave up all alcohol for a month and there was no difference. Tests have ruled out hepatitis. After stopping oxandralone or another 17a, how long before the liver results clean up? Does 10-15 days clear it out of your system? Or is there longer term impact? Would clen have any impact? Any other supplements?

Before going onto further lab tests, I wanted to get the expert opinions from this group who probably have more real world experience than most of the doctors out there.

Thanks for any advice.

**fitnessNY** · 02-23-2004, 10:14 PM

i don't know how long to clear up your live, I would load up on the milk thistle.

***Pheedno*** · 02-23-2004, 10:18 PM

It's going to be individualistic. No way to difinitively nail down a time frame
You say other liver indicators are fine. As in GGT level?

I'd grab some Tylers Liver detox, and get re-tested in 6-8wks

***Pheedno*** · 02-23-2004, 10:19 PM

Also, their might be plenty with personal experience on these boards, but few and far between are "experts"

**einstein1905** · 02-23-2004, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by woodiechopper

I am showing elevated liver values for AST and ALT: AST 80/ALT 165. Other liver indicators are normal. These have been elevated for a few months now. I gave up all alcohol for a month and there was no difference. Tests have ruled out hepatitis. After stopping oxandralone or another 17a, how long before the liver results clean up? Does 10-15 days clear it out of your system? Or is there longer term impact? Would clen have any impact? Any other supplements?

Before going onto further lab tests, I wanted to get the expert opinions from this group who probably have more real world experience than most of the doctors out there.

Thanks for any advice.

To really know what's going on, it would have been nice to get your values checked PREcycle. You have no idea what your individual norms are w/o that. As a resistance-training individual, the range of norms (although sometimes generous) set for sedentary people don't apply as stringently to you.

**Da Bull** · 02-24-2004, 12:48 AM

Tylers liver detox, and 2 raw eggs in a 8oz glass of skim milk twice daily.And a mild multi vitamin.

**older-than-dirt** · 02-24-2004, 07:40 AM

Don't sweat it too much. My liver values were close to yours. My Dr. even had me go get an MRI on my liver and it was fine. He says some people just have "fatty" livers. Also if you were taking any type of Liver clenser before your blood test, that can elevate function as well. So long as your Billiburin, "spelling?" is good , it's all good. Staying away or cutting down the booze is always good. Lift long my friend.

**halifax** · 02-24-2004, 09:47 AM

I have also heard that if everything else is normal, these two values can be elevated due to a heavy training session before the test. So next time do a test before a cycle and before a heavy leg day.

**Bigun** · 02-24-2004, 10:35 AM

Does anyone have any more information about bilirubin levels please?

**einstein1905** · 02-24-2004, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Bigun

Does anyone have any more information about bilirubin levels please?

Actually, our bilirubin levels can be elevated too and not be a problem. Anything causing erythropoeisis (more red blood cells) should cause increased bilirubin levels, since bilirubin is a breakdown product of hemoglobin.

**Bigun** · 02-24-2004, 10:52 AM

My bilirubin levels are elevated naturally and I have just started on an anavar /test prop/hGH cycle. I have done lots of research on the area and wondered if anyone else had any information or had the same problem

Spyder · 02-24-2004, 10:53 AM

MILK THISTLE!!!!

Originally Posted by woodiechopper

I am showing elevated liver values for AST and ALT: AST 80/ALT 165. Other liver indicators are normal. These have been elevated for a few months now. I gave up all alcohol for a month and there was no difference. Tests have ruled out hepatitis. After stopping oxandralone or another 17a, how long before the liver results clean up? Does 10-15 days clear it out of your system? Or is there longer term impact? Would clen have any impact? Any other supplements?

Before going onto further lab tests, I wanted to get the expert opinions from this group who probably have more real world experience than most of the doctors out there.

Thanks for any advice.

**einstein1905** · 02-24-2004, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Spyder

MILK THISTLE!!!!

And plenty of water.

**animal-inside** · 02-24-2004, 12:19 PM

i'd say its up to ur doc to tell u when ur liver is healthy again..... no way would i **** with my liver.. you only got one to last u a lifetime.. unless ur a moviestar with cash to bump u up on the transplant list

**woodiechopper** · 02-28-2004, 11:30 AM

Thanks for the good advice. Unless there's been long-term damage (and there isn't much reason for it unless I'm unusually sensitive), I'm still not sure what's causing the excess levels. My values before cycle were not elevated.

I read that Clenbuterol can be liver toxic. I was still taking that when I had my liver tests so maybe that's the problem. Anyone heard similar?

**BuffGuy** · 02-28-2004, 11:45 AM

Basically, your liver cells are called "hepatocytes". Hepatocytes when they are "necrosed" (destroyed), they then release ALT and AST. Hence, elevated levels of ALT and AST indicate something like Hepatitis...

You should also be aware of your GGT and Alkaline Phosphatase levels. These line your "bile ducts", and if these are injured, it could be something like a gallstone or something.

Someone mentioned elevated Billirubin levels. Basically the liver conjugates billirubin and sends it through the bile ducts to the small intestine. If the bile ducts are closed or obstructed, then the billirubin can't go that route and just "bounces back" and roams around in the blood...thus, elevated levels of Billirubin. Usually, GGT and Alkanine Phosphatase and Billirubin are high altogether in abnormal situations..

Usually what happens is that the liver is inflamed...and this inflamation will close the bile duct and destroy cells lining it (which then release GGT and alkaline phosphatase).

So what usually happens is that your liver cells (hepatocytes) are being destroyed releasing AST/ALT...the body's immune system (defense) reacts by creating inflamation..the inflamation then blocks the bile ducts, causing elevated billirubin and then destroying cells lining the bile ducts (high levels of GGT/alkaline-phosphatase).

I hope that helps a little bit.