what gains can i expect

[sambostyle]

I'm religious about fighting and I need to get to the top of my weight class and lose some bf. Right now I'm 5'9" 177 12%bf. I plan on doing my first stack at the end of the year, primo/winny. My questions are about doseage. Are there any advantages to tapering on or off? With 200mg of primo wk&50mg of winny everyother day what kinds of gains can be expected?
Any help would be appreciated

[Nathan]

Well, I would recpmmend not tapering up or down since once you begin taking the durgs, they'll shut down your HPTA at whatever dosage you use (provided you aim for an effective one). SO, tapering down makes little sense since your pituitary will still not be producing any FSH or LH and your testes will not be producing much testosterone either way. SO, pick a therapeutic dosage and stick to it. As for gains to be expected, I doubt you'll get much in the way of weight but your strength should shoot up and you should keep most of your gains provided you hit the clomid properly.

[sambostyle]

Thanks, I'm thinking of using 400mg/wk for 1st two weeks and then 200mg for the next eight with the primo and 50mg Eod with the winny. Then in week 9 100mg Clomid and 50mg in week ten.

[The original jason]

400mg is borderline shutdown of the hpta I wouldnt go any less you are waisting your time, however including the winnie will shut you down. I would go 400-500mg every week at the least for 8 weeks if it was this cycle and winnie 50mg ed if you can afford it if not go 50mg eod thats for weeks 3-8, clomid use weeks 9,10,11 50/100/50mged.

[Full Intensity]

some people will never learn.........nor bother to check the web site ptbyjason has put up to help out the newbies, and to keep them from getting flamed.

[sambostyle]

Thanks Jason and Nathan,
I'm planning on 50mg winny Eod wk 3-8. My main goal here is to gain strength and cut body fat, so this should be an effective stack for those purposes. If I can add some knockout power to my punches and knifes I'll be on an entirely new level.
later,
sambo

[B182]

sambostyle, I think injectable trenbolone acetate will provide even better results.

PS- Who is your sambo instructor? And "knifes"... lol who are you going to kill?

[sambostyle]

I learned form Kurshov, and have also trained with Pat Militech (winningest fighter in UFC history). And a knife is a certian type of open palmed strike, they're lethal and not allowed in most competitions. I'll look up the profile on that AS and see if it might be better, but I am trying to keep the toxicity fairly low on this cycle,
Sambo

[B182]

sambo: if you want to keep the toxicity as low as possible, then avoid all orals (except primo) and stick with injectibles(like tren). I have never heard of Kurshov; there are not many credible genuine sambo instructors in the US, unfortunately after the UFC popularized grappling in the US, grappling became trendy and now there are many teachers running around with false credentials claiming to know specific grappling systems. There are very few genuinely qualified instructors of sambo in the US- Is he recognized by AARMACS?

As for the "knife"'s...how do you know they are lethal? This sounds like something a kung fu fanatic(the kind that has never been in a single real fight in his life) would claim. Is there a single documented case of death from a "knife" ? And which competitions are they banned from? karate point fighting(balet) or actual MMA/NHB? I have not heard of this. I know UFC, Pride, IVC, Shooto, KOTC etc. have not banned ANY type of hand strikes, open handed or not. In fact I don't know of any organization, big or small that has banned any type of hand strike, and even the NHB "lite" organizations like pancrase allow all types of open hand strikes.

[sambostyle]

I appreciate your curiousity, but you're asking for too much personal info. And do you honestly think I'd give you the name of my real instructor, I might as well give you my soc number. I'm getting off this thread
narc

[B182]

PS- Pat Militich has zero sambo training too =)

[thalaktos]

Ok - no knife strikes are not banned in any credible tournament or organization I have ever heard of - but yes, used correctly can be lethal - simply because if the strike is applied to the correct area it can cause a rupture of the thyroid sheath which will usually lead to the victims death in a few minutes.

[B182]

Originally posted by thalaktos
Ok - no knife strikes are not banned in any credible tournament or organization I have ever heard of - but yes, used correctly can be lethal - simply because if the strike is applied to the correct area it can cause a rupture of the thyroid sheath which will usually lead to the victims death in a few minutes.

Is there a single documented case of this? to accurately say "usually leads" implies death of this cause has happened quite frequently so that this judgement can be assessed. Granted, any strike can be lethal if placed in the right area at the right place with sufficient force, but for the most part, one-strike kills are limited to the realm of movie martial arts fantasy and the rubbish McDojo instructors spout out. If you follow sanctioned mixed martial art/no holds barred competitions, simple western boxing statistically by far has most effective handwork striking techniques.

[thalaktos]

B182 - ok man, this is getting pathetic, you apparently need to stick to fielding steroid questions because this is nonsensical - is there anything you are not critical of? Well if not then you should at least try not to be critical of things of which you are uneducated, and further, stop trying to pick apart my words - just use a little common sense. Sorry I didn't bring my documented case log of martial arts phenomenon today, but yes, this has in fact happened. The number of "cases" is irrelevant, the cause and effect are understood - it's simple physiology.
Beyond all that though, your spectacularly uneducated statement regarding the effectiveness of hand techniques in boxing as compared to martial arts makes very clear your disgusting lack of knowledge on the topic - which does make me wonder why you are continuing to pontificate about it. If you honestly beleive that even a highly skilled boxer could hold a candle to a seasoned Shaolin or Aikidoka for example, you are sadly mistaken. So please, if you are going to continue trying to discuss this - at least do the rest of us the favor of at least reading up on what you're talking about since you clearly lack the experiential knowledge.

[B182]

Originally posted by thalaktos
B182 - ok man, this is getting pathetic, you apparently need to stick to fielding steroid questions because this is nonsensical - is there anything you are not critical of? Well if not then you should at least try not to be critical of things of which you are uneducated, and further, stop trying to pick apart my words - just use a little common sense. Sorry I didn't bring my documented case log of martial arts phenomenon today, but yes, this has in fact happened. The number of "cases" is irrelevant, the cause and effect are understood - it's simple physiology.
Beyond all that though, your spectacularly uneducated statement regarding the effectiveness of hand techniques in boxing as compared to martial arts makes very clear your disgusting lack of knowledge on the topic - which does make me wonder why you are continuing to pontificate about it. If you honestly beleive that even a highly skilled boxer could hold a candle to a seasoned Shaolin or Aikidoka for example, you are sadly mistaken. So please, if you are going to continue trying to discuss this - at least do the rest of us the favor of at least reading up on what you're talking about since you clearly lack the experiential knowledge.

I'm sorry, but I think you're the ignorant one. You're basing the effectiveness of your arts off of what your instructors probably brainwashed you to believe and you fell into the mythical BS. If Shaolin, aikido etc. is so effective, then why is it EVERY single fighter limited to traditional arts like shaolin and aikido has been slaughtered when they get in the ring with a real fighter? Can you name me ONE that has even a decent record in professional NHB fighting? There's no point in trying to convince you here, because One-this is an AS board, and two-the only way to convince people like you what real effective fighting is about is by actually letting them test their techniques on a guy that actually knows what works with experience in the ring/cage and whatnot. Afterwards the ego is usually shattered, but they have a much clearer grasp of reality then.

My $0.02, discussion finished. (My apologies to the mods for getting off topic)

[BullDogg20]

Ok i dont care about this argument at all but, shaloin
is basically a type of religon, get it shalion monks/priests they are trained in one of the deadlyist martial arts in the world they dont fight profesiionaly

[thalaktos]

ok well I've got one last thing to say and then I'm done with this crap - you were discussing the effectiveness of hand techniques - which fights are not limited to in the "cage/ring" as you put it. I was addressing what you said, you should understand that - and what you were discussing is hand techniques. In the pro circuit you should know that in 9 out of 10 fights the winner is determined by grappling, not hand strikes - and yes, that is why people who limit themselves to one art - Aikido for example - have a poor record - I did not say otherwise. But likewise, these boxers you hold so high, have just as bad of a record in comprable fights - when is the last time you saw a boxer hold up in the UFC or something??? Never, and that's because just like other arts they limit themselves to the use of their hands and eventually fall to a more skilled grappler. Personally, my discipline is Jeet Kune Do, which is based around not limiting your skills or instruments to any set of techniques or principles. Since though, I did not feel that what I learned in my years of JKD training completely encompassed the best techniques there are in a few other aspects I made point to also get a San Dan in Aikido and Judo to round out my skills more completely. Anyway though, this is all irrelevant, I am done with this topic - goodbye.

[sambostyle]

I will never again throw a martial arts reference in here because I am surrounded by apparent masters. And In response to "name one succesful fighter who never used boxing techniques" the anwser is Caol Uno, one of the greatest lightweights in the history of shooto.

[B182]

sambostyle: Please READ what I say before you try to respond, and please limit what you say to what you actually know somehting about. One, I *NEVER* said "Name a successful fighter that didnt use boxing techniques" ...I said name one successful fighter whose skills was limited to typical traditional dojo kata BS. Second, there is no "Caol Uno" in shooto, BUT there is a Kaoru Uno, and yes, his punching is more boxing than anything else (watch Pulver/Uno for example). I originally started the discussion with honest curiosity, since there are very few genuine sambo practitioners out there, but when I started getting false answers my bullshit detector went off.

Again, my apologies for straying off topic!

[groverman1]

Boo hoo hoo

[timmz11]

Dan Gable would teach everyone of em a new trick of the trade...."HOW TO WIN'..hahah jus kiddin guys...i have no clue about any of this...jus a lil brazilian ju-jitsu and free style wrestling...dont hate me