Newbie calling for help!

[3nz]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here, but gathered amazing info so far!

Just a little background first:
Current Status: 5 10'', 175lbs around 14%bf
Lost around 80lbs over the last 3-4 years but still have some flab around my gut and chest - a lot of loose skin as well.

I'm not a newbiew to training, dieting and all that just to AS.
I'm a bit tired of the extremely low progress from diet and cardio alone so i've decided to start an ECA/Clen cycle for 10-12 weeks, wihtout expecting any miracles (2 weeks on/2 weeks off)
To keep a stroy short, I've been doing a lot of research lately and started to seriously consider incorporating Anavar into my cycle.
It would be my first cycle, and I know how everyone would say that I should start with test or something, but thats just out of the question for me.
I liked what I read about Anavar given its noted to have lower side effects with moderately good results.

My main questions are:
1) is it a good idea to cycle ECA/Clen/Anavar (any contradictions) to begin with?
2) whats the best way to cycle it and for how long?
3) what kind of results should one expect provided a clean diet and solid training program are followed?

I would really appreciate all the input I could get from you guys. Feel free to speak your minds.
Thanks in advance to you all!

[sepjuice]

var,test prop,clen ,and eca would be great to run together...10-12wk cycle. with your diet in ck and cardio consistent,it should give u pretty good results.

[jbigdog69]

How old are you?? What are your goals? (bigger, slimmer, harder???)

[cpt steele]

It sounds like your diet needs work bro. You may consider clen /eca and really focus on diet and 1hr of cardio at 70%hr max on an empty stomach. Post your diet in the diet forum the bros in there will help you get locked on

[Jjdigs74]

i don't know much about anavar or to tell you what you need to hear, but i would like to point you and your first post out to everyone. For all the newbies that come in here never reading the educational thread's or the rules and just ask away with uneducated thown togther questions, I thought your questions and your thread was great. You needed more of your stats but other than that, perfectly asked question's. And from a newbie?!? that never happens! Im all about giving someone credit when credit is do. I think alot of guys here would say the same. Welcome to AR bro.....

[juiceinthehood]

i would go 1 week on 1week off on the clen prevents crash and works alot better 2w on 2w off theory is useless jmo

[Jjdigs74]

i would go 1 week on 1week off on the clen prevents crash and works alot better 2w on 2w off theory is useless jmo

This is his opinion and from what i gather its what worked best for him. Thats not to say it would work like that for you! I would try the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off first. I think you will receive better results.

Oh and there is no " Crash " on Clen . Since Clenbuterol is not a hormone compound it has no side effects typical of anabolic steroids .Above all, it has a strong anti-catabolic effect and does not need to be tappered when coming off a cycle.

[juiceinthehood]

jdigs do some more research on clen there is a crash its a proven fact that 2w on 2w off is just not good (would your body react more to not eating for 1 week or not eating for 2 weeks ) go to steroidtips.com just one website easy to understand look up clen profile

[Blown_SC]

Maybe this will help, I found it very useful.
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=23808
Good luck bro, and congrats on the weight loss.

[Jjdigs74]

From my expereince if a person were to take moderate doses, by moderate i mean there bodys limit, and respectfully follow diet and the strict 2 weeks on 2 weeks off rule they should be fine post clenbuteral. I would say no more that 8-10 weeks and mantain a consistent level of intensity in the gym a person would be able to come off of clenbuteral without a crash.
Im just trying to understand what you are saying. You are saying that if clenbuteral is run at the 2 W on 2 W off that a person will crash? As like all steriods , as like all drugs, if you respect the dose and follow other things in your life, such as diet cardio, health, sleep, you will be fine. My opinion, my expereince, others expereince, alot of people run clen at that rate and see great results. I think you should also do more research on this topic, not allowing yourself to focus on 1 web site and taking that information to heart. Look around and gather pro's and cons as well as different study's and people's personal experiences. Like everyone say's, different drugs act differently with different people....

[3nz]

Thanks for the replies guys,
I thought i mentioned my stats
"Just a little background first:
Current Status: 5 10'', 175lbs around 14%bf
Lost around 80lbs over the last 3-4 years but still have some flab around my gut and chest - a lot of loose skin as well" (23 years)
My goal is to basically lose as much fat as possible, not for competition or modelling or ne thing. Not going after a bulky look, just lean - doesnt mean ripped to the bone, just lean.
There is no point in discussing why, but test, prop and all that stuff are out of the question for me.

As for clen , i've tried it before 2weeks on/2 off and didnt get a good result.
At this point, my diet is in check for sure - 45p/35p/20f mainly leas sources of protein and low GI carbs, healthy fats, bla bla bla. I do cardio around 5 times a week not less than 35 minutes around 75% of my max heart rate. So u can safely assume training and diet are in check.

Sorry for the long posts, but what do you guys think of the proposed cycle as is - clen, var and eca? what about the other questions as well?
Someone i know suggested i take around 5 2.5 tabs a day along with the clen or eca, how does that sound?
I really appreciate all your help, thanks again.

[3nz]

bump

[alphamedic]

Hello, I am 29 yrs old and have been lifting for about 1.5 yrs now....well, this time ...on and off for 10 yrs. I will be starting my first cycle in about 1 week. It will be 600mg Test first week 400mg deca .....and 500mg test .400mg deca after that for a full 12 week cycle. I have a good muscle foundation but am a little overweight. I am doing cardio 2x/day...at 7am....before eating ...for 20 to 30 minutes. and at about 2pm cardio for the same ammount of time. Then lift for about 2 hrs in the evening.. I eat about 6 times a day. chicken, yams, oatmeal, protein shakes, and tuna. Multi-vitamine everyday. oh, and wheat rice and rice cakes. I am mentally prepared for this cycle. I have a friend that I have known since high school that has experience in this stuff, and is my mentor. I am 5'11" weigh about 250lbs. I bench now about 320. Don't know bodyfat yet...am getting callipers. (it's pretty high though). I would be interested in any comments(good/bad)...advise, critisism, anything like that.. Thanks guys!!!...P.S. Love this Board!

[Jjdigs74]

Hello, I am 29 yrs old and have been lifting for about 1.5 yrs now....well, this time ...on and off for 10 yrs. I will be starting my first cycle in about 1 week. It will be 600mg Test first week 400mg deca.....and 500mg test .400mg deca after that for a full 12 week cycle. I have a good muscle foundation but am a little overweight. I am doing cardio 2x/day...at 7am....before eating ...for 20 to 30 minutes. and at about 2pm cardio for the same ammount of time. Then lift for about 2 hrs in the evening.. I eat about 6 times a day. chicken, yams, oatmeal, protein shakes, and tuna. Multi-vitamine everyday. oh, and wheat rice and rice cakes. I am mentally prepared for this cycle. I have a friend that I have known since high school that has experience in this stuff, and is my mentor. I am 5'11" weigh about 250lbs. I bench now about 320. Don't know bodyfat yet...am getting callipers. (it's pretty high though). I would be interested in any comments(good/bad)...advise, critisism, anything like that.. Thanks guys!!!...P.S. Love this Board!

Im not sure what all that means guy? Your purposed cycle? You are either running a Pyramid of a cycle with i do not recommend or you are confussed about your cycle. Or you are front loading which is ok but i think it doesn't do much? A pyramid cycle is when you go with different amounts of doses with different AS at different times during your cycle. I do not recommend you do this at all. You want steady levels of testosterone throughout your cycle. Also I would drop the deca for your first cycle and stick to Test. See how your body reacts.

I would say this....

1-12 Testosterone E 500mg/wk ( split shots )
1-12 Nolva 20mg ED
6 HCG

PCT

12-14 Nolva 30mg ED
14-15 Nolva 10mg ED
14 Clomid ( 300mg 1st day, 100mg first week, 50mg second week )

You could use HCG post cycle if you would like but if you were to run it at week 6 you should be in good shape. If you are bent on throwing deca in the mix i would do so and not go over 400mg/wk. But like i said see how your body reacts to the Test, you never know if your body has a reaction to the deca, you won't know which AS is causing it and you will have to end your cycle early and that sucks....

Good luck

[alphamedic]

Jjdigs74...first of all..Thank you soooo much for responding!!..that was real cool..ok, now let me try and clarify my proposed cycle a bit...It is frontloading...
Week 1-600mg Test
400 mg Deca
week 2-12 500 mg Test
400 mg Deca
I will be throwing Clen In the mix at some point..any suggestions on when and for how long?..I have read diff. theories. By the way...I will surely consider your proposed regimine.Thanks!!........alphamedic

[alphamedic]

One more thing...can anyone think of any reason why I should not do cardio so much?....2 times a day ....20-30 minutes each time. plus, lifting after all that. Please note.....I am a little overweight, but the training seems to be helping.

[Jjdigs74]

Your welcome alphamedic. I now understand your cycle as well as your theory behind it. I again think you should stick with 500mg per week and keep it at a steady level throughout your cycle. Frontloading is ok, but is usually done with shorter cycles ( 6 or 8 weeks ) You are running a 12 week cycle which is farely common and not considered a short cycle. In that 12 weeks you have plenty of time for the Testosterone to kick in. It differs from person to person but is usually around the 3-4 week. Some times sooner.

If you still feel that you wish to frontload and you have access to gear, I would suggest Test Prop for the first 2 weeks at 50mg ED.
Example::
1-12 Test Prop 50mg ED
1-2 Test E 500mg/wk
1-12 Deca 400mg/wk

Test Prop has a shorter half life, usually between 1-2 days. It enters the blood stream faster and you will see faster results. I said 2 weeks but to plan it out money wise, i would buy a 10ml bottle and get the most out of it. There is no point in buying two(2) 10ml bottles if you aren't going to use it. Its up to you.

As far as clen goes there is a great educational thread on AR called " The Clenbuteral Handbook " that would be a great help. Clen is to be taken gratually and slowly increasing your dose by 20mcg ( 1 pill ) at a time untill you reach your tollerance level. Most say not to go over 120mcg's a day, but people are know to do over 140mcg. It is important that you respect clenbuteral and dose it properly. It is said that people that take high dose's at the start experience more severe side effects. You will experience some side effects to start but they should slowly go away after your first week. It is nothing to get worried about, it's just your body getting used to the clen. If side effects are still presen past the 2 week mark i would lower your dosage and see how your body handles it. If they persist, you may consider stopping clen all together and releizing it is not for you. Most people stack clen with a 2 week on 2 week off program and in the off weeks run a ECA stack.

For Example ::

Day 1 20mcg ( 1 pill )
Day 2 40mcg ( 2 pill )
day 4 60mcg ( 3 pill
Day 5 80mcg ( 4 pill )
Day 6 100mg ( 5 pill )
Day 7 120mcg ( 6 pill )
Day 8 120mcg ( 6pill )
Day 9 100mcg ( 5 pill )
Day 10 80mcg ( 4 pill )
Day 11 60mcg ( 3 pill )
Day 12 40mcg ( 2 pill )
day 13 20mcg ( 1 pill )
Day 14 20mcg ( 2 pill )
OFF OF CLEN
Day 15 start of ECA stack
Day 28 End of ECA stack
OFF of ECA
Start Clen
repeat cycle 1

Notice i tappered the clen down so it ranged from starting slowly to getting to your peak and then back down again? This is not a must but it is recommended for your first time with clen. It will help in the long run.
You can also cycle clen many different ways, i would say do a search and find out what way would work best with you and stick to what works. Clen is cycled between 8-10 weeks.

As for your cardio i would stick to 4 days a week and a once a day routine. I would try running for 45min - 1hr. This is what works best for me but it might not with you. I am a have read lots of studies and research that says keeping your heart rate up higher for longer periods of time ( over 30min ) at one time burn's more fat that if you were to run under 30 min. My thereoy is based on keeping your heart rate up for longer periods of time, burning more fat. Some people like to split cardio into 2 parts. Running in the AM on an empty stomach is great as well.

I do not have time to read over my suggestions nor do a spell check, i am sorry for that. If i have missed anything or i was wrong about something, people should feel free to jump in and correct me. I hope i was some help. Good luck

[rjf190]

great post

[3nz]

alphamedic, thanks so much for hijacking my post.

GUYS PLEASE I NEED YOUR HELP HERE!

[powerlifter]

alphamedic, thanks so much for hijacking my post.

GUYS PLEASE I NEED YOUR HELP HERE!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA -

[powerlifter]

Bro - I wouldn't run Var by itself - it can still shut down your HPTA - run ECA stack / Clen to lose weight Bro - lots of cardio / clean diet should do the trick

[alphamedic]

Jjdigs74..That was a VERY informative post and once again, thanks!...I will surely use your advice. Also, I will keep you updated on my results once I start!!.....One more thing...3nz....about hijacking your post...not sure what u mean by that?? sorry..did I do something bad??..or were u REALLY thanking me for something...lol...plz let me know..I am new to this site...Alphamedic

[alphamedic]

3nz....if I stole your page I appologize...I think I understand from going back and reading your post from the other day what you meant. Your post was actually really interesting to read. Like I said ...I am new here and don't know all of the proper "ways" of the board. So once again...Sorry about that...Alphamedic

[ripdtoshredz]

Your welcome alphamedic. I now understand your cycle as well as your theory behind it. I again think you should stick with 500mg per week and keep it at a steady level throughout your cycle. Frontloading is ok, but is usually done with shorter cycles ( 6 or 8 weeks ) You are running a 12 week cycle which is farely common and not considered a short cycle. In that 12 weeks you have plenty of time for the Testosterone to kick in. It differs from person to person but is usually around the 3-4 week. Some times sooner.

If you still feel that you wish to frontload and you have access to gear, I would suggest Test Prop for the first 2 weeks at 50mg ED.
Example::
1-12 Test Prop 50mg ED
1-2 Test E 500mg/wk
1-12 Deca 400mg/wk

Test Prop has a shorter half life, usually between 1-2 days. It enters the blood stream faster and you will see faster results. I said 2 weeks but to plan it out money wise, i would buy a 10ml bottle and get the most out of it. There is no point in buying two(2) 10ml bottles if you aren't going to use it. Its up to you.

As far as clen goes there is a great educational thread on AR called " The Clenbuteral Handbook " that would be a great help. Clen is to be taken gratually and slowly increasing your dose by 20mcg ( 1 pill ) at a time untill you reach your tollerance level. Most say not to go over 120mcg's a day, but people are know to do over 140mcg. It is important that you respect clenbuteral and dose it properly. It is said that people that take high dose's at the start experience more severe side effects. You will experience some side effects to start but they should slowly go away after your first week. It is nothing to get worried about, it's just your body getting used to the clen. If side effects are still presen past the 2 week mark i would lower your dosage and see how your body handles it. If they persist, you may consider stopping clen all together and releizing it is not for you. Most people stack clen with a 2 week on 2 week off program and in the off weeks run a ECA stack.

For Example ::

Day 1 20mcg ( 1 pill )
Day 2 40mcg ( 2 pill )
day 4 60mcg ( 3 pill
Day 5 80mcg ( 4 pill )
Day 6 100mg ( 5 pill )
Day 7 120mcg ( 6 pill )
Day 8 120mcg ( 6pill )
Day 9 100mcg ( 5 pill )
Day 10 80mcg ( 4 pill )
Day 11 60mcg ( 3 pill )
Day 12 40mcg ( 2 pill )
day 13 20mcg ( 1 pill )
Day 14 20mcg ( 2 pill )
OFF OF CLEN
Day 15 start of ECA stack
Day 28 End of ECA stack
OFF of ECA
Start Clen
repeat cycle 1

Notice i tappered the clen down so it ranged from starting slowly to getting to your peak and then back down again? This is not a must but it is recommended for your first time with clen. It will help in the long run.
You can also cycle clen many different ways, i would say do a search and find out what way would work best with you and stick to what works. Clen is cycled between 8-10 weeks.

As for your cardio i would stick to 4 days a week and a once a day routine. I would try running for 45min - 1hr. This is what works best for me but it might not with you. I am a have read lots of studies and research that says keeping your heart rate up higher for longer periods of time ( over 30min ) at one time burn's more fat that if you were to run under 30 min. My thereoy is based on keeping your heart rate up for longer periods of time, burning more fat. Some people like to split cardio into 2 parts. Running in the AM on an empty stomach is great as well.

I do not have time to read over my suggestions nor do a spell check, i am sorry for that. If i have missed anything or i was wrong about something, people should feel free to jump in and correct me. I hope i was some help. Good luck

Just my 2 cents here.

1) People frontload with just about any ester. No 2 people will agree on frontloading though. IT has a lot to do with the fact that none of us respond to gear the same as another.

2) Prop is a bad idea for a first timer. Unless you're comfortable with everyday or every other day shots I'd stick to a longer ester test.

3) 500mg Enathate and 400mg of Deca was my first cycle. I had great results with it. Make sure your diet and training are on point and you'll enjoy it.

[ripdtoshredz]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here, but gathered amazing info so far!

Just a little background first:
Current Status: 5 10'', 175lbs around 14%bf
Lost around 80lbs over the last 3-4 years but still have some flab around my gut and chest - a lot of loose skin as well.

I'm not a newbiew to training, dieting and all that just to AS.
I'm a bit tired of the extremely low progress from diet and cardio alone so i've decided to start an ECA/Clen cycle for 10-12 weeks, wihtout expecting any miracles (2 weeks on/2 weeks off)
To keep a stroy short, I've been doing a lot of research lately and started to seriously consider incorporating Anavar into my cycle.
It would be my first cycle, and I know how everyone would say that I should start with test or something, but thats just out of the question for me.
I liked what I read about Anavar given its noted to have lower side effects with moderately good results.

My main questions are:
1) is it a good idea to cycle ECA/Clen/Anavar (any contradictions) to begin with?
2) whats the best way to cycle it and for how long?
3) what kind of results should one expect provided a clean diet and solid training program are followed?

I would really appreciate all the input I could get from you guys. Feel free to speak your minds.
Thanks in advance to you all!

Now to answer some questions of yours.

1) Cycle the Clen for 2 weeks followed by 2 weeks ECA. The most effective way I've foind to take clen (for a beginner) is to take 1 20mcg pill one day and see how you react. The next day take 2. If you reach 100mcg and notice few sides (shaking, anxiety, insomnia) where you go from 100 mcg is up to you. I wouldn't recommend going much higher. Keep the clen at your "tolerable dose" until you reach 14 days. Start ECA and repeat. Upon repeating you might not have to take such baby steps with the clen, your body will let you know.

Anavar is a mild steroid at best and you probably won't notice a lot from it. It's expensive and if you want muscle there are a lot of other compounds that you should probably look at. If it fs for leaning up diet, cardio, and thermogenics will get you there, forget the var.

2) Oops, covered that.

3) That's a very open ended question. Like I said in the above post everyone is different. Bodybuilding is a very individual sport. That is why there are so many opinions floating around. What works well for me might not be all that effective for you, but the basics hold true for everyone. Stick with it, don't cheat, and you'll see results.

I once read this and it's very true about cutting up:

"It doesn't take motivation, it takes dedication."

[3nz]

thanks guys