GH and joints?

[Quake]

I'm doing some looking into what I can find out about the effect of GH on joints. I've read a couple of profiles (not many, a search on an engine brings up so many **** sites for gh precursor sprays etc, which I have read are all crap). On the few profiles I have read it has been stated that users of GH have experienced soreness or aching joints, but that the actual effect is that the gh makes the joints grow, and strengthens them. This I hope is true. Does anyone have any experience or can enlighten me a little on this please?

[Bigun]

This has some irrelevant infromation but much of what your asking can be answered here I hope:

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% - more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want - an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner - the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn - ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS - the decision is up to you.

[Da Bull]

It's true..I've had joint soreness once while running HGH.I can however say that HGh has helped my joints greatly in the past.I had terrible tendonitis in my elbows and in a few months it was gone and never had a problem since.I did stop doing preacher curls also tho..

einy or JohnnyB will jump into this thread and give you a much better explanation than i can,so i'll leave it up to those guys...einy loves typing anyhow.

[Quake]

Thanks, that's just the type of thing I was looking for! I've got to do a little research on something else (the reason for asking this question) and I might be back looking for further answers on this thread. Thanks again!

[Bigun]

I am using hGH and anavar right now with the aim of helping my poor dried up joints!

[einstein1905]

You can also search for Dr. Dunn's work on morphoangiogenesis and intra-articular GH injections (although that's for extremely dramatic effects). GH in general is great for joints.

[NewBreed]

I´ve read that the major amount of weigth gained by gh is collagen tissue.

[Quake]

OK, done my research, been to the docs. The trouble I am having is with the "fasset" joints in the base of my spine (I know this isn't the right name, but it sounds like this so this is the nearest I can get to it, when I get told the name again I'll edit the thread). The pain first started when I was playing soccer at 13 years of age, I saw a physio, got treated and had no problems afterward. Then when I started weight lifting at the age of 20 I one day decided to do "Good Mornings" loaded the bar up bent forward and "bang" something went in the base of my back. This time I didn't go for treatment, just laid off training for a couple of weeks and carried on, it went again a year later whilst squatting and again I did the same. Last year I started back playing rugby, and running has aggravated it so much so that in the last week I have been in my local hospitals A&E dept (they just gave me painkillers and told me to rest), and to an Osteopath. The Osteopath was great! Described what was going on with my back, he pinpointed it as my physio had, as the bottom two joints of the spine (something to do with the hips also). He gave me treatment and it felt a great deal better. It is still paining a little this week, so I will go again for treatment next Monday. Anyway, that's the reason for my curiosity of gh and it's effects on joints. Judging by the feedback it seems that I should consider a course. I've read of varying doses, and this stuff is expensive. Doses I've read about are from 1.5 I.U a day to 3 I.U per kg of bodyweight a week (I think). Any dosage recommendations for a first cycle?