Does your OVERALL SIZE correlate to how much juice you should take?

[AustrianOAK14]

hey bros this was taken from a thread i started...i know they say deca is best when taken at 2mg/per lb of bodyweight does this apply to other steroids such as test,winny,tren,etc. i mean i would think a bigger guy would need more juice than a smaller guy(i mean think about it , it takes a bigger guy longer to get drunk than it would take a lil guy) that was an example so i would think taller bigger guys would need more jucie than littlier guys would to make good progress thats y most guys blow up on juice and litttle guys look bigger bc they go by the cycles on this website and other sources. well want to hear what you guys think i though it was an interesting question

[kronik]

I dont think just because you are bigger your body will produce more natural test, so why should you take higher doses of synthetic test...

[dieseL atC]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the average male produces 5-10mg of Test per day (big or small). So if you are pumping in 7-8 times that amount, I don't see size being a factor..

[dieseL atC]

I dont think just because you are bigger your body will produce more natural test, so why should you take higher doses of synthetic test...

Beat me to it..

[kronik]

Beat me to it..

I win...

[kronik]

I must be honest I copied and pasted from a previos post I made on his thread..

[AustrianOAK14]

well but y do bigger athletes need more calories than smaller athletes???

[1-Cent]

but no matter how much you naturally produce its completely shut down the same though isn't it... not like synthetic test stacks with your natty test, or your nuts wouldnt shrink?

I dont think just because you are bigger your body will produce more natural test, so why should you take higher doses of synthetic test...

[kronik]

well but y do bigger athletes need more calories than smaller athletes???

of coarse they have more body mass to feed...totally different subject IMO.

[kronik]

but no matter how much you naturally produce its completely shut down the same though isn't it... not like synthetic test stacks with your currents test, or your nuts wouldnt shrink?

You missed the point...you will not need more synthetic test if you a bigger in stature is all im saying..

[Warrior]

hey bros this was taken from a thread i started...i know they say deca is best when taken at 2mg/per lb of bodyweight does this apply to other steroids such as test,winny,tren,etc. i mean i would think a bigger guy would need more juice than a smaller guy(i mean think about it , it takes a bigger guy longer to get drunk than it would take a lil guy) that was an example so i would think taller bigger guys would need more jucie than littlier guys would to make good progress thats y most guys blow up on juice and litttle guys look bigger bc they go by the cycles on this website and other sources. well want to hear what you guys think i though it was an interesting question

Of course. Your bodyweight - more specifically your lean weight plays a big role in cycle planning. That is why we ask for stats - not just to harass you.

"Although androgens possess both genomic (direct) and non-genomic (indirect) actions, it has been thought that the majority of their action is through direct activation of DNA transcription via high affinity interactions with intracellular androgen receptors (AR). At least it is though so because these interactions have been studied in the most detail. Although receptor dependent interactions may ultimately turn out to be quantitatively most important, as androgen receptor independent actions continue to be uncovered, the importance of these non-genomic interactions may shed new light on androgen's effects." - John Berardi

Now, any exognous androgen use above and beyond your natural levels will obviously lead to increased anabolism - but how aparent these effects will be depends on your current size. Plus you are only capable of a certain level of androgen receptor mediated activity (dependent on lean body mass) - once they are all occupied... your done. Excess go to work in an indirect fashion - such as cross-over binding that blocks cortisol, but that is also limited in how much it can use... things like how much training volume you subject your body to - which in turn depends on things like your current limit strength and motivation...

"I know of no cases of steroid users who found that they began losing muscle mass while remaining on the same dose. The illogic here is confusing cessation or slowing of gains with cessation of effect. One instead should look at,. What muscular weight set-point is the body experiencing with this hormonal and exercise stimulus?

"With higher dose AAS, that setpoint is higher. Once it is nearly achieved or achiever, of course gains slow or stop. And besides this, even if the body has not yet fully achieved the higher mass that may be possible with a given level of AAS, it is harder for many reasons for the body to grow after it has recently grown a fair deal. It needs time before being ready to again grow some more. This is observed whether steroids are involved or not.

"The illogic of people who correlate rate of gains with AR level is amazing. I suppose they would have it that the AR downregulates after the first 6 months of natural training as well. After all, gains slow down then." - Bill Roberts


Just let me know if none of this made any sense to you and I can break it down further... Just remember that endocrinology is a very complicated subject and one that people get paid big bucks to research...

[kronik]

Of course. Your bodyweight - more specifically your lean weight plays a big role in cycle planning. That is why we ask for stats - not just to harass you.

"Although androgens possess both genomic (direct) and non-genomic (indirect) actions, it has been thought that the majority of their action is through direct activation of DNA transcription via high affinity interactions with intracellular androgen receptors (AR). At least it is though so because these interactions have been studied in the most detail. Although receptor dependent interactions may ultimately turn out to be quantitatively most important, as androgen receptor independent actions continue to be uncovered, the importance of these non-genomic interactions may shed new light on androgen's effects." - John Berardi

Now, any exognous androgen use above and beyond your natural levels will obviously lead to increased anabolism - but how aparent these effects will be depends on your current size. Plus you are only capable of a certain level of androgen receptor mediated activity (dependent on lean body mass) - once they are all occupied... your done. Excess go to work in an indirect fashion - such as cross-over binding that blocks cortisol, but that is also limited in how much it can use... things like how much training volume you subject your body to - which in turn depends on things like your current limit strength and motivation...

"I know of no cases of steroid users who found that they began losing muscle mass while remaining on the same dose. The illogic here is confusing cessation or slowing of gains with cessation of effect. One instead should look at,. What muscular weight set-point is the body experiencing with this hormonal and exercise stimulus?
With higher dose AAS, that setpoint is higher. Once it is nearly achieved or achiever, of course gains slow or stop. And besides this, even if the body has not yet fully achieved the higher mass that may be possible with a given level of AAS, it is harder for many reasons for the body to grow after it has recently grown a fair deal. It needs time before being ready to again grow some more. This is observed whether steroids are involved or not.

The illogic of people who correlate rate of gains with AR level is amazing. I suppose they would have it that the AR downregulates after the first 6 months of natural training as well. After all, gains slow down then." - Bill Roberts

Just let me know if none of this made any sense to you and I can break it down further...

Please feel free to break it down at any given time bro...

[einstein1905]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the average male produces 5-10mg of Test per day (big or small). So if you are pumping in 7-8 times that amount, I don't see size being a factor..

relative to natural production, you're right, it seems to be irrelevant. BUT, will you grow more off of 7x or 8x your natural levels?
All drugs should be administered with a dosage based on weight, ideally. However, the variations in dosing are going to be very slight at the doses we want to use anyway, so it becomes negligible.
However, a 185 pounder and a 300 pounder using the same amount of gear will have drastically different responses.

[einstein1905]

I was going to say that dosage would be dependent on LBM too, but then balked. There are adipocyte ARs too, so I'd say the total overall weight is the deciding factor.

[kronik]

I think this could be debated for days, are their any studies out there that anyone knows about?

[Tryin2getHUGE]

"i know they say deca is best when taken at 2mg/per lb of bodyweight" .... What does this mean as far as cc's to mass goes? I have never heard this and I am curious of the logic. Thanks

[Warrior]

Please feel free to break it down at any given time bro...

You have androgen receptors (AR) all over your body... through your bones, muscles, and even CNS. Anabolic-androgenic steroids work by way of the AR. They increase anabolism, tissue growth. But the kicker is, you only have so many AR's to occupy (based on LBM). If all the hammers (AR) are taken - left over workers (androgens) can not help build - but rather find trouble from the boredom (androgenic side effects).

An indirect anabolic response from these left over (excess) androgens (since their are no more AR's - aka, hammers) is to cross-over bind to gluco corticoids... this action stops cortisol from breaking down muscle. With our analogy, the left over workers (androgens) stop the neighbor kids (cortisol) from tearing down bricks (muscle)...

Now, if all your recpeptors are occupied and no further indirect action can occur from the androgens - then the excess is waste. And this tilts you closer to the risk portion of the risk to benefit rartion of AAS use...

STOP LAUGHING EINSTEIN! Feel free to add...

[einstein1905]

You have androgen receptors (AR) all over your body... through your bones, muscles, and even CNS. Anabolic-androgenic steroids work by way of the AR. They increase anabolism, tissue growth. But the kicker is, you only have so many AR's to occupy (based on LBM). If all the hammers (AR) are taken - left over workers (androgens) can not help build - but rather find trouble from the boredom (androgenic side effects).

An indirect anabolic response from these left over (excess) androgens (since their are no more AR's - aka, hammers) is to cross-over bind to gluco corticoids... this action stops cortisol from breaking down muscle. With our analogy, the left over workers (androgens) stop the neighbor kids (cortisol) from tearing down bricks (muscle)...

Now, if all your recpeptors are occupied and no further indirect action can occur from the androgens - then the excess is waste. And this tilts you closer to the risk portion of the risk to benefit rartion of AAS use...

STOP LAUGHING EINSTEIN! Feel free to add...

That's a good anaolgy.....I've used the bricks and wall analogy to explain why prohormones aren't all that too.
If something can't be explained by using a brick anaolgy, it's not worth knowing IMO

The only thing I'll add is this:
ALL drugs should be administered in a mg/Kg basis. however, when the mg/Kg ratio is very high, the variations in dosing mean much less.
Example, say 4mg/Kg is determined to be the optimal dose (arbitrary). A 100Kg person would require 400mg of deca, whereas someone weighing 120Kg would require 480 mg of deca....not a huge difference. also, there is no real acute toxicity with most AAS to be concerned with as with other drugs, so the dosing can be a bit more liberal.

[AustrianOAK14]

yeah thats a good analogy and pretty prescise but i mean your right when you say the more juice the more sides...imjust wondering if 700mg of test cyp is too much for me once again im 6'6 265

[AustrianOAK14]

i think a 300 pound bb wouldnt get as good results of 500mg of test as a 190 pounder would...ive tried lower dosage cycles they dont work impo so i need higher dosages to fit my needs once again this is based from my eprsonal experiences

[groundandpoundpwr21]

homeostasis and genetic limit are the biggest factors, the furhter past your genetic limit you want to go the more juice it will take.

[kingofmasters]

homeostasis and genetic limit are the biggest factors, the furhter past your genetic limit you want to go the more juice it will take.

Once again ==> Genetic limit does not exist in this context...

Also the bigger you are the more juice you need; but this would be in an optimum condition where we would know the perfect dosage of AS
(e.g. 6 mg per kilo); but since we don't know exact perfect dosages of AS, the boundries we give are good enough for almost any "normal" LBM of users
Boundries being 250-1000 mg Test a week!

Good to see you again Warrior; long time no see!

[AustrianOAK14]

i think a bigger person needs more juice to see results for example:

subject a: 6 foot 200lbs
subject b: 5'6 200lbs

they both take 750mg of test i think will get bigger than the 6 footer, maybe im wrong but thats just my o

[AustrianOAK14]

anyone else have anything to say about this theory??? just wondering what you guys thinnk

[Anhydro78]

Yes I think size does need to be considered when estimating a persons dose. First time or not. I have seen in person a serious athlete starting out natural at 230 some pounds , some what lean with a perfect diet barely look like he was doing anything on a standard 500mgs a week first cycle.

[Jackman]

actually the 200 ilb 6 foot kid would gain more because a 200 pound kid at 5'6 is much bigger than the other. Think about it this way the 5'6 kid is alot closer to the bigest he can get than the 6 foot kid