The 6 week dball myth. dashed !...

[BOUNCER]

Taken from Fonz, another moderator on elitefitness.
I pasted this over here as I thought it would make interesting reading for you guys here. This was a reply to another members question, I haven't edited Fonz reply here.

_______________________________________________


If using orals only: You have to use them for 8-12 weeks
in order to solidify gains. If you use them for <6 weeks
you won't get as many gains as 8-12 weeks and you'll lose
more muscle than if you ran 8-12 weeks.

Why? Orals stimuate GH and IGF-1 production in the liver.
However, he stimulation INCREASES as tiime goes by.
So, by the end of the 8-12th week your GH and IGF-1
levels are MUCH higher than at 6 weeks, therefore
it is FAR easier to keep your gains.

Here are 3 easy newbie cycles:

The best: Winstrol at 40-50mg/.day for 12 weeks.

The second best: Anavar at 40-60mg/day for 12 weeks

The third best: Dball at 50mg/day for 12 weeks.

This of course is in terms of price/effectivity and safety.

Anavar is probably out as its too expensive for you.

So, that leaves winstrol or Dball.

So, the choice now becomes wether you want to
look nice and tight while still gaining muscle
or strong and bloated.

Another bonus is that anti-e's DO NOT have to be run with
the winstrol, only the dball.

Liver-protectantsV. Important)

1. ALA at 600mg/day
2. 4-5.0L of water/day

Thats it. No other liver supps are necessary.
You do not have to buy 3-4 other because they don't do anything
ALA doesn't do.

So, to re-run everything:

Choice 1: Winstrol at 40-50mg/day+600mg ALA/day+
Clomid/Arimidex at the end.

Choice 2: Dball at 50mg/day+600mg ALA/day
+ Clomid + Arimidex throughout the cycle and
post-cycle.

Post-cycle= 4 weeks of 100mg Clomid/day+
0.25-0.5mg Arimidex/day

Choice 1 is cheaper AND better than 2 IMO. But, its your
choice.

Remember too, that the dball bloat will DEFINATELY
give others the impression you're on something.

________________________________________________
(credits to Fonz on ef.com)

Bouncer

[THE JU-ICE]

If you are gonna use dball for 12 weeks you should periodically check the toilet to make sure that you didn't shit out your liver.

[THE JU-ICE]

I personally feel that winny can be taken for as long as you can afford it. I just keep lots of milk thisle on hand.

[Iron horse]

about toxicity of orals, I'd say yes of course they are, but so is tylenol and asprin. I think you should take a period before and after the cycle to not mess with pain medication, or another pill for that matter, and if you have to take something for pain only ibprophen. maybe giving your liver that break could really help.

and, limit the use of orals. if you took a cycle like that maybe, don't let yourself do it more than a few times, ever.

[Whiteyebrowe]

awesome post
im surprised that more people arent screaming about being on 17aas for to long and all that B.S

[hammerhead]

Yeah i'm doing a cycle with d-bol up front the first 4 weeks. I won't be taking any orals weeks 5-8. I was planning on doing some Winstrol weeks 9-12. I've been led to believe that oral Win is a bad idea - 2 17AAs in the same stack. But there is a month break in there between them. Anyone have any input on that?

[G-S]

Originally posted by THE JU-ICE
If you are gonna use dball for 12 weeks you should periodically check the toilet to make sure that you didn't shit out your liver.

I feel the same way. I need more proof than a MOD at another board saying it's "ok".

[iron4life79]

Originally posted by Gettin Stupid


I feel the same way. I need more proof than a MOD at another board saying it's "ok".

me too.............



peace bb79

[fever]

mee too!

[Sicilian30]

I wouldn't take any chances, with more than 4 weeks on Dbol, just my opinion. I agree with juice, "check the toilet, and be looking for your liver."

[BOUNCER]

I personally have used dball for up to 10 weeks. But never to 12-15 weeks. I'm not saying it's right I've just posted it here for discussion. However I'd also like to know who came up with the magical 6 weeks maximum.
And another thing about these myths we have in AAS discussion, who has ever had a prostrate glad checked after year's of deca use, even testo's can cause prostrate troubles.

Bouncer

[foreverblast1]

6 week max of orals = *cough*bullshit*cough*... I'm in week 7 of winny only here and so far up 12 lbs of nothing but fucking muscle... and no, I'm not 150lbs of lard... more like 210lb of muscle..

john

[G-S]

Where's Mike. I'd like to here his opinion on this.

[Mike]

I've already stated my opinion - I have always said the hepatic toxicity has ALWAYS been over rated on C17s - I posts an article on it in the Edu section a while back.

[PaPaPumP]

Originally posted by hammerhead
Yeah i'm doing a cycle with d-bol up front the first 4 weeks. I won't be taking any orals weeks 5-8. I was planning on doing some Winstrol weeks 9-12. I've been led to believe that oral Win is a bad idea - 2 17AAs in the same stack. But there is a month break in there between them. Anyone have any input on that?

You will be fine. Take PLENTY of Milk Thistle and/or ALA, and you should be fine. Good luck on the cyc!

This kinda makes me wanna start winny right now!!!(onlyy 4 weeks in)

[Iron horse]

now don't get all oral happy now everyone!

I agree with Mike, I always THOUGHT the toxicity was a bit overated, eventho its still a little harsh on the liver.

I cant imagine giving people something very toxic for medical use anyway. EVENTHO bb's take more than medical patients.