Senior Member
Hi, was about to put my order in for s1+//m1,4ad but was reading on more about 1-test cyp and was interested in that. So how often would you inject... what ammounts... and what would be a good brand to get becasue right now all I know of is vpx 1-test cyp and 1fast400's powder form which i figure would be hard to mix into a solvent.
Junior Member
bump- anyone pin 1-test?
I would assume since it is a cypionate u can pin it twice a week.
King of Supplements
twice a week, cuz its a cypionayte ester. You could actually get away with once a week but to keep blood levels stable go with twice a week.
Senior Member
so twice a week.... but what about the doseage? How much.
King of Supplements
Depends on how much 4-ad cypionate or test your running. It is mostly used at a 1:1 ratio. But if lethargy is bad then bump test or 4-ad up to 100 mg more each week.
Senior Member
So, what would be a good doseage on a 1:1 ratio? I'm trying to get over 200 currently I am 187 and no this can be done but what should I start them both off?? I was gona use 4derm because I already have some leftover bottles from previous ps cycles.
Supplement Guru
1 test cyp can be very irratating for some people so be carefull some cannot take the injections at all but a good doseage would be 600mgs a week
Look at designersupps.com Sledge is making more right now he offers the best prices 50ml 200mg/ml 95 bucks
He also offers 4ad cyp 50ml 300mg/ml
the best bet to avoid irratation would be 1 cc of 1 test mixed with some 4ad cyp or test anything more can be painfull so pin 3 times a week to avoid problems but if you are one of the lucky ones that doesnt have pain you could do whatever!
Member
vpx 1-test cyp is 50mg/ml. the company reports better results from oral versus IM. i'm taking it orally now. tastes like ****!
King of Supplements
1-test cyp will not be effective if taken orally. It will get chewed up and not absorbed by your GI tract...
Member
from VPX's website:Originally Posted by nsa
"PolyLipid Liposomal Structures Containing 1-TEST & 4-Test Cypionate are dispersed through out the blood in 60 sec. and avoid 1St pass liver degradation!"
i emailed them about this and they're "polylipid" structure is for improved oral performance.
Member
attached are scans of the vpx 1-test cyp i'm taking. i can get pics of the vile if you'd like those too.
King of Supplements
They can't say its injectable or else they would run into problems with the governement. Just like why research companies say not for human use...
Member
replied to other thread.
Supplement Guru
vpx sucks they are rediculously over priced!!!
they only offer 50mg per ml also what a waste.
anything with an ester is meant to be injected!!!
it is for delayed release of the compound. the ester also has weight to it so 5mg of 1test cyp is not really 5mg more like 3 because of the ester weight.
Member
i got the current vile of vpx 1-test cyp for $28 though (i think they're $80 retail), so i wasn't complaining. i wouldn't have paid full price for it. might be the last time though since they'll be illegal soon. at that point, why go with PS, when they'll be just as tough to get as real gear? no brainer there.
King of Supplements
Who cares how much you got it for. You would need to inject 12 cc's of that a week to be effective. I know i personally don't want to inject 12 cc's of anything into my body. I wouldn't do that if they paid me, let alone pay for something that i would that with...
Senior Member
actually, for some reason it acts more like a propionate ester, i could feel my levels going up and down when i injected 2xweek but when i injected eod i felt much better.
i would personally go with the powder, the conversion process is the same as any other cyp conversion, i have tried just 5% ba @ 200MG/ML with soreness for 2-3 days, but i feel 3%ba and 10%bb was great with no pain. i actually just made 150mg/ml test prop/1-test cyp, 75mg of each with no pain after 2 days. i actually only made 20mls of this stuff just to see if it works lol
Member
bro, what's with the attitude?i'm not trying to get into an arugument, just stating the facts that i've researched.
Here's a little snippet on liposomes:
"1-Test can be so effective due to the liposomal matrix used to encase the 1-Testosterone molecule. This unique delivery method prevents first pass liver degradation and shuttles the liposomally encased 1-Testosterone molecule into the bloodstream through the mucous tissue and also through a special lipid passage through the lymphatic system. These multi-layered liposomes steadily disperse a dose of 1-testosterone throughout the bloodstream for a measured 20+ hours. (It has been noted in the Physician's Desk Reference, that liposomal delivery records absorption rates even higher than injected agents do)."
And here's a snippet I found on esterfication:
"An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid."
the way i interpret that is that liposomes are for oral delivery and esters are to time the release of the compound that they are bound to. i have emailed a couple companies to get some further clarification on this also. i sincerely hope the vpx is not injectable only since i'm not ready to be stabbing myself in the arse. that's why i've stuck with the liposomal products from vpx and pharmagenx.
King of Supplements
I don't have an attitude. I was just amking a point, you couldn't pay me to use something that i have to inject 12 cc's into me each week. Anything that has an ester on it is not meant for oral use, the substrates of the 1-test cyp would be excreted at least by like day 2 or 3. You have to realize where the info your getting is coming from, they have vested interests in the success of their product. You can't honestly believe that an oral liposomal delivery system is more effecient for absorbtion than IM lipid injections...bro, what's with the attitude?
Here's a little snippet on liposomes:
"1-Test can be so effective due to the liposomal matrix used to encase the 1-Testosterone molecule. This unique delivery method prevents first pass liver degradation and shuttles the liposomally encased 1-Testosterone molecule into the bloodstream through the mucous tissue and also through a special lipid passage through the lymphatic system. These multi-layered liposomes steadily disperse a dose of 1-testosterone throughout the bloodstream for a measured 20+ hours. (It has been noted in the Physician's Desk Reference, that liposomal delivery records absorption rates even higher than injected agents do)."
And here's a snippet I found on esterfication:
"An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid."
the way i interpret that is that liposomes are for oral delivery and esters are to time the release of the compound that they are bound to. i have emailed a couple companies to get some further clarification on this also. i sincerely hope the vpx is not injectable only since i'm not ready to be stabbing myself in the arse. that's why i've stuck with the liposomal products from vpx and pharmagenx.
Member
sorry bout the misunderstanding bro. the above info i posted didn't come from manufacturers websites. they came from medical websites and the other came from a bodybuilding website. i made sure not to use info from product webpages. there's no way in hell that i'm injecting 12cc's per week! there's no way i'm injecting anything. i can't stand needles and never want to use them. after PH/PS's get banned, i'm back to creatine, glute. and protein. that's it. i'm definitely not saying that a liposomal is more effective than IM. i never said that in any of my posts if you look back on them. i'm just saying that liposomes encapsulate the 1-test and allow them to pass through the GI tract and 1st pass liver. so if an esterfied PS was encapsulated in a liposome, it would allow it to be taken orally or injected. the IM use would of course give better results, but for those not willing to inject like myself, the oral is still an alternative. i just googled liposomes and liposomal and found numerous medical and chemical websites talking about them. none of the ones i relied on were even refering to steroid use. liposome are just a well known transport vehicle.
King of Supplements
I agree that liposomes are a decent transport system, but its not suitable for an esterified compound like a cypionate or enanthate. Like i said before if you could just drink testosterone cypionate instead of injecting it, everyone would drink it and not risk injecting into a vein or getting an abcess. Liposomes do not have the same transportation effects on steroids as being methylated at the 17th position.
Member
not arguing, but if liposomes are not appropriate for esters, why are they making a liposomal cypionate?
King of Supplements
If liposomes worked as well as your research states they do pharma companies would make liposomal steroids all day. No one wants to inject themselves if they could drink it.
Member
I just got this response from VPX which i think addresses both our points:
THE 1-TEST CYP CAN BE INJECTED B/C IT IS A STERILE SOLUTION AND IT HAS THE CYPIONATE ESTER ATTACHED. HOWEVER, IT IS ALSO A LIPOSOMAL PRODUCT AND THIS IS MEANT TO PROTECT THE MOLECULE FROM SOME OF THE NORMAL DEGREDATION OF THE DIGESTIVE TRACT. ADDITIONALLY, LIPOSOMES ALLOW SOME UPTAKE THROUGH THE LYMPH GLANDS AS WELL. YES, THIS PRODUCT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IF INJECTED...WHICH VPX DOES NOT RECOMMEND!! HOWEVER, IT IS STILL QUITE POTENT WHEN USED ORALLY.
i really like their second to last statement, "YES, THIS PRODUCT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IF INJECTED...WHICH VPX DOES NOT RECOMMEND!!" i mean, how much more contradicting can you get?!it's much better this way, but don't do it!
) under the guidance and supervision of a licensed doctor. so my conclusion through this educational journey with you is that VPX 1-test cyp is injectable or oral, but the IM use will be much better. i would also say that most other 1-test cyp's probably are NOT able to be taken orally and must be used IM. ****it! now i'm pissed i wasted my money on this. i could have gotten 4 times as much non-injectable PS's for that price! oh well, live an learn i guess.
Supplement Guru
The product will still work to some extent and you got a deal on it anyway.
The liposome works pretty poorly research andriol it also used lymphatic absorbtion but you need around 320mg plus a day to notice good results so a good amount still gets eaten up by the gut.
Either way its still a steriod and you are getting some into your body so you will have some type of results.
King of Supplements
All i was saying it that liposomes are not as effective for absorbtion as your saying they are. You will need to take many times the recomended dose to equal the gains from injecting it. Get over your fear of needles and inject the stuff, not this bottle though cuz you opened it.I just got this response from VPX which i think addresses both our points:
THE 1-TEST CYP CAN BE INJECTED B/C IT IS A STERILE SOLUTION AND IT HAS THE CYPIONATE ESTER ATTACHED. HOWEVER, IT IS ALSO A LIPOSOMAL PRODUCT AND THIS IS MEANT TO PROTECT THE MOLECULE FROM SOME OF THE NORMAL DEGREDATION OF THE DIGESTIVE TRACT. ADDITIONALLY, LIPOSOMES ALLOW SOME UPTAKE THROUGH THE LYMPH GLANDS AS WELL. YES, THIS PRODUCT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IF INJECTED...WHICH VPX DOES NOT RECOMMEND!! HOWEVER, IT IS STILL QUITE POTENT WHEN USED ORALLY.
i really like their second to last statement, "YES, THIS PRODUCT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IF INJECTED...WHICH VPX DOES NOT RECOMMEND!!" i mean, how much more contradicting can you get?!
Member
the liposomal definitely isn't as effective as injection, but i wouldn't say they're not effective. i've gained a solid 10lbs in 1 month on a 1-test/finigenx stack (both liposomal) while having good strength gains and decreasing body fat. i know not everyone will have the same results, but i've had great results off the liposomals. JME though.
Member
ok we are talking about pinning here and im real interested in this. basicly i just want to pin 1-test cyp so i can mix it with my m5aa cycle that im doing right now. i know that dessignersupps carries them but they are out right now. so i was thinking of vpx. how much should i pin if its from vpx??
King of Supplements
The designer supps brand is the only one made so far with around the dose you want,i.e. 2-3 cc's a week instead of 12 cc's a week. The second one is how much you would need to be pining if using vpx.
Member
**** thats alot...and 12 ccs a week would preaty much give me nothing but a waist of money. do you have any ideas when dessignerssup will come up with the testsledge of the 4ad cyp or 1 test cyp???
King of Supplements
You can email him at hit site and ask. I don't know him so i wouldn't know.
Supplement Guru
Gio check out those sites I gave you for the 1 test and 4ad cyp because sledge is no longer going to be making any.
Member
bryan which sites??? on the top of this threat you said look into designersupp...
he wont be making anymore??? if you dont mind pm and give me the sites please.
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