A Few T3 Questions....

[sooner45]

Hey guys, ok currently 24 yrs old, 190ibs, anywhere from 11-14% BF. Cycle Experience is basically one cycle of Prop/Winny, and then one time I ran an 8 week cycle of 2 week on 2 week off Liquid Clen.

Here's the deal: I'm debating on doing a Clen/T3 Cycle OR just stick with the Clen for now, I am really wanting to shed as much BF as I can in the next2-3 months, and then hit up a Prop/Fina Cycle in March-April, nontheless, in the midst of my research, I have a few questions:

1) Is it normal to not run any test with Clen/T3?? I know its ok to run Clen without Test but I was wondering about not running Test throughout Clen/T3, I really wanna wait till I hit the sauce, but then again dont want to shrivle up and lose any muscle I currently have if I end up going with T3/Clen.

2) If I decide to JUST run Clen, along with cxardio and clean diet, can you still monitor your body temp to insure maximum results??

3) I'm a little confused about the Mallets Split with T3. Am I understanding right in the fact that you CAN run Vlen and T3 AT THE SAME TIME??? You just have to do a different split with the T3? But in the meantime you can still be running Clen for 6 weeks long and then throw the Benadryl in in the 3rd week, WHILE STLL running Clen AND T3?? Sorry guys, I''ve really managed to get myself all confused on all this!! Thanks!!

[ALEXANDER42]

1) No you shouldnt run T3 without test because T3 not only causes fat loss but also will cause muscle loss. Taking test with T3 is really necessary to prevent the muscle loss. 2) Usually with T3 you monitor body temp. 3)Yes you can run them at the same time and the new recommendations for clen is to run for 6 weeks straight with benadryl every third week(at night time). Also the recommended dose for clen is 1mcg/kg. Doses higher than this can be toxic to the heart muscle.

[ChefJ]

T3 is not to be played with by anyone who is not dedicated extremely to this game. Messing with your thyroid can be dangerous. You do not need to run test with T3 as it is not as muscle wasting as T4 but should be run with clen or primo or masteron or any other aas that will save you muscle mass. It should only be run when trying to diet down for some kind of contest prep not for the typical spring breaker.

[Knight1811]

T3 is not to be played with by anyone who is not dedicated extremely to this game. Messing with your thyroid can be dangerous. You do not need to run test with T3 as it is not as muscle wasting as T4 but should be run with clen or primo or masteron or any other aas that will save you muscle mass. It should only be run when trying to diet down for some kind of contest prep not for the typical spring breaker.

I don't understand what you are saying. You say he doesn't need test when taking T3 since it does not waste muscle... but then you write he needs primo or masteron to save muscle mass. So, are you saying he needs an AAS to prevent muscle loss or not?

Also, any amount of T3 above 25mcgs (some say 50mcgs) has been widely reported to waste muscle unless taken with TEST or some other anabolic. Why do you say TEST is not needed? I'm not doubting your knowledge. Just asking to broaden my knowledge.

To the poster: here is an article posted from another forum and might be on this forum also but no need to search I will post it here:





copied this post from muscle chemistry posted by Stickler

This was written by BigAndy over at Elite, was a good read and as far as I can tell seems fairly accurate with medical references. Good enough for me anyways ... so here it is:

Disclaimer

T3 is not a drug that should be taken lightly. It's a very potent thyroid hormone. Messing with your natural hormone levels is very dangerous and unpredictable. The potential for complications is very high, and abuse can lead to thyroid disease and low thyroid output not only immediately upon discontinuation, but also later in life.

There is no such thing as safe use of T3 outside of a medical setting. There is only "safer" use. Use at your own risk.

Introduction: What is T3 and what are the side effects?

This article is pushing 2000 words, so here's a link for anyone who's interested: http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbo...roid/index.html

What about T4?

Bodybuilders should not use T4. It's a much weaker drug designed for long term use in patients with chronic thyroid disease. 100mcg of T4 corresponds to 25mcg of T3 and offers equivalent thyroid support; however, this does not translate to equal weight loss benefits. It has made itself on sources' lists simply because it is widely available and extremely cheap.

Is T3 catabolic?

It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT catabolic per se. Corticosteroids are catabolic drugs that attack muscle tissue directly; T3 does not. It is a very potent calorie burner and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat. Unlike DNP, it has no protein sparing properties. T3 is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).

Muscle loss can be avoided with the use of anabolic agents. T3's alleged catabolic properties have become legendary. Excessive amounts of T3 (more than 75mcg), will have a very strong calorie burning effect, and since some bodybuilder use 150 mcg, it's easy to see why such misinformation has been so prevalent. The average bodybuilder will not need several grams of steroids to counter a reasonable dose of T3. There is no need to use more than 75mcg-100mcg. Going beyond this dose will cause more harm than good, as massive doses of steroids need to be used to counter the muscle loss, further stressing the body for minimal, if any additional benefits.

I think I've lost 20 lbs of muscle!

T3 can also give your muscles an extremely flat look and very soft feel. This side effect of extreme glycogen depletion can have a very profound psychological impact in bodybuilders. It often feels and looks like muscle loss when it's simply a lack of muscle "pump" because of restricted blood flow to that area and depletion of glycogen stores in muscles. Generally, carbohydrate loading does not solve this problem. "Pumping up" (or training for that matter) brings more blood into the muscles and is a temporary albeit effective solution. Clenbuterol and certain steroids can offset the lack of muscle pump because these drugs tend to "harden up" users by bringing more blood into to the muscles.


Are steroids absolutely necessary on T3?

This is very dependent on the user. Diet must be flawless, only reasonable doses should be considered (50mcg) and the user must know his body to a tee. Those who don't know what that last statement entails should not even consider T3. This is a veteran drug and should not be used by bodybuilders who are new to the game or do not have a deep understanding of how there bodies react to certain foods and training philosophies.

T3 can be used alone or better yet with Clenbuterol without fear of muscle loss in overly fat people (20-25% BF). This is not recommended, however, since these people will generally return to overeating upon discontinuation of their cycle and may likely end up with more weight than they started with.


How should I eat on T3?

Protein should be kept at 1.5-2g per lb of bodyweight. The majority of protein should come from lean meats. Shakes can be used, but should not be heavily relied on as they are more likely to be turned into glucose and used immediately for energy. Caloric reduction should come from carbs and fat only.


What is T3 used for?

Fat-loss: The main use for T3.

Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles are full and rock hard, and energy is through the roof. At these light doses, it's common for people to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there bodies are making more efficient use of the food they eat.

Can I permanently shutdown my Thyroid?


Simply put, NO, it can't happen. Natural thyroid production will be completely shutdown for a good period of time after using T3, but it will eventually recover. Bruce Kneller posted this study on the Testosterone website:

N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.
After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal.
Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

Basically, it is extremely important to eat cleanly and keep up with cardio for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks following a T3 cycle. It's also very important to ramp down properly and not use any drug that have an effect on metabolism and thyroid function, i.e. Clen, Ephedrine, Steroids, DNP, T2…

Calories should be kept in check, even lowered in some cases, and High Intensity Cardio is a must; at least 20mins, 3times a week. L-Tyrosine can be used at 1-3g a day to help thyroid function, but its effectiveness is debatable.

Switching to a higher carb, lower fat and lower protein diet is crucial in helping your thyroid bounce back after a cycle. A three-day carb up would be a good idea following a T3 cycle. This study demonstrates how important carbohydrates are for normal thyroid function. (Note: Some people seem to think of carbs as Lucky Charms and toast when there are far better carb choices that won't make you look like the Michelin Man.)


Last edited by 2BIG on 04-10-2002 at 05:39 PM

Report





Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations have been found in studies of long-term (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In these studies of weight gain in normal weight volunteers, increased calories were required to maintain weight after gain over and above that predicted from their increased size. This was associated with increased concentrations of triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3 was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum concentrations of T3 and its metabolic clearance were increased, resulting in a marked increase in the production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0 +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein 31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg). Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg). It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are responsible for the simultaneously increased expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore might represent an important physiological adaptation in times of caloric affluence. During the weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree, with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these studies that the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones.

A post cycle crash is inevitable; this is the time when your diet really matters.

So how do I cycle this stuff?

T3/Clen/Anavar Cycle

Anavar is the single best steroid to stack with T3. Its anti catabolic properties are unmatched and it will not shut you down. There's nothing like simultaneous sex hormone and thyroid hormone shutdown; I bet it feels great. Primobolan at 200mg a week would be a good substitute since it doesn't shut you down. Dbol at 10-15mg taken in the morning can also be used but Arimidex must be included with the Dbol. T3 increases the amount of beta-3-adregenic receptors (by 500%! in white adipose tissue, i.e. the fat that covers muscle. Since clen exerts most of its effect on the same receptors; the combination with T3 would yield quite a strong synergistic effect. T3/Clen may be too much for the heart in some people.

T3:

12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended)

37.5mcg for 5 days
75mcg for 15 days
50mcg for 5 days
37.5mcg for 5 days
25mcg for 5 days
12.5 mcg for 5 days
6.25mcg for 5-7 days

Clen:

30 days: 60-120mcg ED. Use clen from the first 37.5mcg dose to the last 25mcg dose. Ketotifen will make you more sensitive to clenbuterol so doses should be adjust accordingly.

Ketotifen:

Stacked with Clenbuterol, 2mg ED. This drug may not be an option for some people since it can make them extremely hungry. If this is the case, Clen should be used 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.

Anavar:

Oxandrin;

15mg ED with 37.5mcg of T3,
25mg ED with 75mcg of T3,
20mg ED with 50mcg of T3.


Here's a more sensitive approach that can be used between cycles since it doesn't include AS:

BigAndy69's T3 Cycle:

The cycle can actually be used to add muscle mass or drop body fat depending on caloric intake. For gaining muscle mass, the Yohimbine and Anastrozole are not necessary.

W1-W4:

T3: 12.5mg ED
Clen: 60-100mcg ED
Ketotifen: 2mg ED
Anastrozole: 0.5mg ED
Yohimbine: 10-15mg ED (maybe too much to handle in some)

Carb/Pro/Fat:

20-30/50-60/20

ALA: 1500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED

W5:

T3: 6.25mg ED

L-Tyrosine: 1-2g ED
ALA: 2500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED

Carb/Pro/Fat:

50-60/20-30/20

(High Intensity Cardio)

W6:

ALA: 1500mg ED

Carb/Pro/Fat:

40/40/20

(High Intensity Cardio)


BigAndy69's T3 Post Cycle Therapy (4-6 weeks):

Initial 3 day carb up:

Carbs: 1.75g X BW
Protein: 0.75g X BW
Fat: 0.25g X BW

Supplements:

L-Tyrosine: 1-3g ED
ALA: 1500mg ED
Flaxseed oil + Fish oil: 20g total ED

Diet: >50% Carbs/ 30% Protein/ <20% Fat, calories at maintenance (+ or - 12 X BW)

High intensity cardio: 75-80% of Max Heart Rate; 15-20 min 3-4 times a week.

No Steroids, Ephedrine, Clen, T2, DNP, or anything that has an effect on metabolism. Moderate doses of caffeine can be used before cardio.


Anything Else I should know?

T3 should be taken on an empty stomach, in the morning. If more than 50mcg is being taken, then it should be split through the day.

BigAndy69


References:


N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

A paradigm of experimentally induced mild hyperthyroidism: effects on nitrogen balance, body composition, and energy expenditure in healthy young men.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1997 Mar;82(3):765-70 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Lovejoy JC; Smith SR; Bray GA; De Lany JP; Rood JC; Gouvier D; Windhauser M; Ryan DH; Macchiavelli R; Tulley R
Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge 70808, USA. [email protected].

Metabolism 1981 Aug;30(8):783-91
Whole body leucine and lysine metabolism studied with [1-13C]leucine and [alpha-15N]lysine: response in healthy young men given excess energy intake.
Motil KJ, Bier DM, Matthews DE, Burke JF, Young VR.

Rubio A, et al. "Thyroid hormone and norepinephrine signaling in brown adipose tissue. II: Differential effects of thyroid hormone on beta 3-adrenergic receptors in brown and white adipose tissue." Endocrinology 1995 Aug;136(8):3277-84




Cytomel is not a steroid, but more a of a cutting aid. It's a synthetic form of the thyroid hormone tri-iodio-thyronine or T3, made up of a metabolite of the amino acid tyrosine and 3 iodine ions. In the body it in turn is made from another hormone, T4, which is secreted by the thyroid under influence of the pituitary hormone TSH (Thyroid stimulating hormone). If a shortage of either TSH or T4 is noted, usually doctors may opt for a replacement therapy. These days the most common prescription is synthetic T4 (synthroid), but in more severe cases of permanent thyroid dysfunction, the choice is given to Cytomel. Simply because T4 is mostly active through its conversion to T3 and T3 is 4-5 times stronger than T4 on a µg for µg basis.

In bodybuilding circles Cytomel is mostly used as fat-loss drug. Thyroid hormones are often referred to as the metabolic regulators of the body. High levels of T3 speed up the metabolism of an individual, allowing him to burn more calories and use calories more sufficiently. Generally ectopmorphic body-types have very high thyroid levels and in some cases a slight undiagnosed form of hyperthyroidism. Both hyper-and hypothyroidism can have severe consequences on an individual, such as goiters and other nasty stuff, so messing with your thyroid is not something I would advise to beginners. As with insulin, misuse of this compound can leave you dependent on exogenous T3 for the rest of your life (remember Frank Zane?). So some caution and research is required before putting Cytomel in your body. Generally cycles should be limited to 4-6 weeks tops, I recommend 3 and alternating cycles with 3-week cycles of clenbuterol. But most importantly, to avoid a crash or a shock to the thyroid function doses need to be built up over time and tapered off again. More so for cytomel than for any other drug in existence.

In his book, Anabolics 2002, Bill Llewellyn says that Cytomel is not a drug to start off on, and that use of milder drugs like T4 (Synthroid) or triacana can help ease a person into the use of T3. I'm inclined to disagree here however. Triacana is weak compound and I find of little use. Its not easily found anymore and not cheap either. T4 is basically similar to Cytomel except that its weaker. Something that users normally compensate with higher doses and sends them down a similar lane as simply using cytomel. Agreed, cytomel is NOT a drug for beginners, but with adequate research, experience with diet and some self-control, I don't see why cytomel shouldn't be the first thyoid compound used. But for recreational users looking for a fatburner, I still suggest using clenbuterol over cytomel for all intents and purposes. Cytomel is much more powerful, but clenbuterol is a lot safer for use. The results are easier to maintain with clenbuterol as well. Negative feedback in the thyroid may decrease natural levels of T3 in the body, causing a decrease of metabolic rate after coming off a cycle of T3. That can cause a rebound effect during which a lot of weight is gained back.

For competitive bodybuilders Cytomel is an almost unmissable aid in contest preparation, along with clenbuterol and non-aromatizing steroids such as stanazolol, trenbolone, methenolone and so forth...

Stacking and Use:

It can be stacked or alternated with clenbuterol. I usually recommend to alternate, three weeks clen with three weeks cytomel, since clen loses most of its benefits after a short period of time and using cytomel for extended time-periods will increase the risk of permanent thyroid failure. Neither drug is terribly expensive so I see no problem in this. Some opt to use them together for 3-4 weeks, and then use an over the counter ECA stack to bridge with for an equal period of time, but I'm not such a big fan of that. Which naturally doesn't mean its not effective, that's just a personal opinion. Running it for three weeks, one could choose for a schedule as follows: 25/25/25/50/50/50/75/75/75/100/100/100/75/75/75/50/50/50/25/25/25 µg/day. If taken for 4 weeks, then run each dose for 4 days, 5 weeks then each dose for 5 days and so on. It is extremely important that the doses are tapered on and off and that a cycle never exceeds 6 weeks at the most.

As far as adding products, no ancillaries are needed, but its highly recommended that this is only used when anabolic/androgenic steroids are also being used. First of all the extra free calories work with the steroids to enhance results, but also because an increased level of thyroid hormones can be extremely catabolic and the use of anabolic compounds to counter muscle loss is a requirement here.

[01dragonslayer]

Taken from the educational forum........

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=766

[sooner45]

Sorry to bump an old thread but i had a few more questions.

1) If you use Mallets 7/5 split, and if you have never used T3 before, wouldnt there be a risk in starting off at 200mg your first day??? With Clen you ramp up, so why not with T3?

2) I will be using the 6 week cycle of Clen with Benadryl but I have heard not to use Clen when your on your 5 days off of T3? Is that true? Or do you continue to use the Clen on your 5 days off??

3) I know it is best to split up dosages of Clen up, but what about T3??? Do you take it all at once?? If so, a.m.?? And if so, before/after cardio???

4) I know your not supposed to take an ECA while doing T3/Clen, but is it still ok to just take 200mg of caffeine in the a.m. upon waking up just to get moving before cardio???

Thanks guys!

[sooner45]

Bump, anyone?

[sooner45]

bump

[bmwrob]

Sorry to bump an old thread but i had a few more questions.

1) If you use Mallets 7/5 split, and if you have never used T3 before, wouldnt there be a risk in starting off at 200mg your first day??? With Clen you ramp up, so why not with T3?

2) I will be using the 6 week cycle of Clen with Benadryl but I have heard not to use Clen when your on your 5 days off of T3? Is that true? Or do you continue to use the Clen on your 5 days off??

3) I know it is best to split up dosages of Clen up, but what about T3??? Do you take it all at once?? If so, a.m.?? And if so, before/after cardio???

4) I know your not supposed to take an ECA while doing T3/Clen, but is it still ok to just take 200mg of caffeine in the a.m. upon waking up just to get moving before cardio???

Thanks guys!

I am currently starting my 3rd cycle of clen/T3 following Mallets approach. Just like you I also had the same concerns. This is what I came up with and decieded would work best for me.
1) I went with a modified version of the 7/5 split. I am using a 9/5 split as follows
day 1.. 1/4 max + 60mcg clen (clen dosage can vary for your tollerence)
day 2...1/2 max + 60mcg
days 3-7... max + 60mcg
day 8...1/2 max + 60mcg
day 9...1/4 max + 60mcg
days 10-14 off of both.
From my research and from talking to Mallett I discovered that clen can have a negative effect of natural thyroid function so that is why you stop both for the 5 days off. Using this 9/5 split also makes it easier for me to keep track of where I am because it is in 14 day incraments. Also, this split gives you a small ramp up at the beginning and at the end.
2) Do not use clen on the 5 days off
3) You can take the T3 all at once.... in the am on an empty stomach preferably.
4) Yes, it is ok to use caffine in the am before your cardio. Also, in my reearch about clen I have also discovered that ephedra actually stimulates the same receptors (and alot others) as clen so I don't use it during the off clen times. I use a synephrine based fat burner. They actually target completely different receptors then clen and ephedra and do not give me that same crash that I get with ephedra.
5) Also, make sure that you have all of your suppliments for THE ENTIRE CYCLE BEFORE you start. Coleus, t-100x (to be taken during the T3 cycle and for thyroid PCT), iodine, guggerls (sp?) (to be taken with the coleus and t-100x during thyroid PCT). Not to mention taurine and potassium for the clen.... and benadryl every 3rd week. I hope this was of some help to you.

[sooner45]

I am currently starting my 3rd cycle of clen/T3 following Mallets approach. Just like you I also had the same concerns. This is what I came up with and decieded would work best for me.
1) I went with a modified version of the 7/5 split. I am using a 9/5 split as follows
day 1.. 1/4 max + 60mcg clen (clen dosage can vary for your tollerence)
day 2...1/2 max + 60mcg
days 3-7... max + 60mcg
day 8...1/2 max + 60mcg
day 9...1/4 max + 60mcg
days 10-14 off of both.
From my research and from talking to Mallett I discovered that clen can have a negative effect of natural thyroid function so that is why you stop both for the 5 days off. Using this 9/5 split also makes it easier for me to keep track of where I am because it is in 14 day incraments. Also, this split gives you a small ramp up at the beginning and at the end.
2) Do not use clen on the 5 days off
3) You can take the T3 all at once.... in the am on an empty stomach preferably.
4) Yes, it is ok to use caffine in the am before your cardio. Also, in my reearch about clen I have also discovered that ephedra actually stimulates the same receptors (and alot others) as clen so I don't use it during the off clen times. I use a synephrine based fat burner. They actually target completely different receptors then clen and ephedra and do not give me that same crash that I get with ephedra.
5) Also, make sure that you have all of your suppliments for THE ENTIRE CYCLE BEFORE you start. Coleus, t-100x (to be taken during the T3 cycle and for thyroid PCT), iodine, guggerls (sp?) (to be taken with the coleus and t-100x during thyroid PCT). Not to mention taurine and potassium for the clen.... and benadryl every 3rd week. I hope this was of some help to you.

Hey Thanks for all the Help! Thats exactly what I was looking for! Thanks Bro!

[alex117k]

Knight1811]I don't understand what you are saying. You say he doesn't need test when taking T3 since it does not waste muscle... but then you write he needs primo or masteron to save muscle mass. So, are you saying he needs an AAS to prevent muscle loss or not?

Also, any amount of T3 above 25mcgs (some say 50mcgs) has been widely reported to waste muscle unless taken with TEST or some other anabolic. Why do you say TEST is not needed? I'm not doubting your knowledge. Just asking to broaden my knowledge.



========

Hey Knight, I think what he was saying is that it doesn't have to be testosterone. Other kinds of AAS will perform the same function, preserving muscle mass, not just test.

[alex117k]

Sorry to bump an old thread but i had a few more questions.
1) If you use Mallets 7/5 split, and if you have never used T3 before, wouldnt there be a risk in starting off at 200mg your first day??? With Clen you ramp up, so why not with T3?

No way in hell would I start cycling T3 at 200mcg on my first day, especially for a first time user. Start low, bump it up every 4 days until you find your limits. And yes, split up your dosage of T3 throught the day.

[sooner45]

No way in hell would I start cycling T3 at 200mcg on my first day, especially for a first time user. Start low, bump it up every 4 days until you find your limits. And yes, split up your dosage of T3 throught the day.

Thats what I was thinking about starting off with that much, but I have heard to take it all in the a.m., I just dont know if thats before or after cardio??? Anyone??

[bmwrob]

Thats what I was thinking about starting off with that much, but I have heard to take it all in the a.m., I just dont know if thats before or after cardio??? Anyone??

I recieved the advice of taking it all in the am from Mallett himself and also read it in my research. I do not believe that it makes a difference if you take it before or after am cardio. I was just advised to take in all in the am on an empty stomach if it doesn't give you an upset stomach. As far as clen, I have heard both... to take it all in the am or split it up.... I take all of mine in the am... I don't think that it makes that big of a difference.

[alex117k]

Hey, just because Mallet can do something doesn't mean everyone should follow his example. T3 directly affects your heartbeat rate. If anyone suggests that a beginner should start at 200mcg daily I'm gonna disagree and say so and sooner45 can decide for himself. If he's mistaken and doesn't have the tolerance for T3 that Mallet has he's going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise.