Beyond Aggravated!

**Panzerfaust** · 02-08-2005, 09:24 AM

Where to start? Well i have basically hit a brick wall in my cutting phase. I have been stuck at 220lbs for 2-3 weeks now...i have not posted anything as i thought i could get over it by adjusting my diet a bit etc...

Anyways, i am beyond aggravated as i cannot seem to get below 220lbs. I would like any input from anybody to help me get over this hump.

I have already bumped cardio up to 5 days a week in AM....

Using fitday.com i have been tracking my numbers and yesterday looks like this:

7:45a Shake w/flax 283kcals 8g fat 2 carb 46 pro

10:15a Tuna w/ 1 tbsp mayo 250kcals, 14gfat, 33pro

12:45p pork chop, green beans, (no "extra" fat added due to 9g coming from pork chop) 194kcals, 9gfat, 8carb, 25pro

3:15 Tuna w/ 1 tbsp mayo 250kcals, 14gfat, 33pro

5:45 workout

7:15p PWO 2:1 pro/dex roughly 46g pro/92g dex (dex is most likely not this high)

9:00 8oz chicken breast, brown rice 260kcals, 4gfat, 42gcarb, 39gpro

11:15 Shake w/ flax 283kcals, 8gfat, 46gpro

Totaling:

Cal Fat Carb Pro
2321 78 149 329

Keep in mind this is a lift day otherwise take out the dex (92g carb) and brown rice in PPWO....

I have dropped flax back to .5 tbsp at a time as my fat was high previously around 109g per day which seemed a bit high to me...

I have been stressed w/ school ending soon and i am not cheating and my lifting is as strong as ever and the diet is strictly followed so it comes down to macros i know....i cannot think straight so i thought i would post this and let you guy's point out the obvious...i know it is something little but i have went over it to much and am looking into it to much and thats a problem..

Hit me w/ it....

By the way, i am 6'0 220lbs BF%???

**Panzerfaust** · 02-08-2005, 09:37 AM

Also, i just started implementing a pork chop for a meal yesterday, this can easily be switched back to Chicken, Salmon....just switching it up...

**Rob** · 02-08-2005, 09:41 AM

lower the calories a bit more i would say if thats the case... or maybe clen

**bor** · 02-08-2005, 10:14 AM

Take 2 days off the diet, cheat like a mofo, and then get back on, i think that should do the trick

**slizzut** · 02-08-2005, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

Where to start? Well i have basically hit a brick wall in my cutting phase. I have been stuck at 220lbs for 2-3 weeks now...i have not posted anything as i thought i could get over it by adjusting my diet a bit etc...

Anyways, i am beyond aggravated as i cannot seem to get below 220lbs. I would like any input from anybody to help me get over this hump.

I have already bumped cardio up to 5 days a week in AM....

Using fitday.com i have been tracking my numbers and yesterday looks like this:

7:45a Shake w/flax 283kcals 8g fat 2 carb 46 pro

10:15a Tuna w/ 1 tbsp mayo 250kcals, 14gfat, 33pro

12:45p pork chop, green beans, (no "extra" fat added due to 9g coming from pork chop) 194kcals, 9gfat, 8carb, 25pro

3:15 Tuna w/ 1 tbsp mayo 250kcals, 14gfat, 33pro

5:45 workout

7:15p PWO 2:1 pro/dex roughly 46g pro/92g dex (dex is most likely not this high)

9:00 8oz chicken breast, brown rice 260kcals, 4gfat, 42gcarb, 39gpro

11:15 Shake w/ flax 283kcals, 8gfat, 46gpro

Totaling:

Cal Fat Carb Pro
2321 78 149 329

Keep in mind this is a lift day otherwise take out the dex (92g carb)....

I have dropped flax back to .5 tbsp at a time as my fat was high previously around 109g per day which seemed a bit high to me...

I have been stressed w/ school ending soon and i am not cheating and my lifting is as strong as ever and the diet is strictly followed so it comes down to macros i know....i cannot think straight so i thought i would post this and let you guy's point out the obvious...i know it is something little but i have went over it to much and am looking into it to much and thats a problem..

Hit me w/ it....

By the way, i am 6'0 220lbs BF%???

The things that I have done in the past when I feel like I hit a plateu is:
1. Up the cardio
2. Up the EFA's slightly in each meal
3. Lower the kcals
4. Lower the PWO/PPWO carb intake slightly
5. Supplement Use
6. Had a HUGE cheat day

**Angelis** · 02-08-2005, 10:41 AM

I would think that maybe 30% of Fat is a bad idea for cutting maybe thats the problem.

**Panzerfaust** · 02-08-2005, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by slizzut

The things that I have done in the past when I feel like I hit a plateu is:
1. Up the cardio
2. Up the EFA's slightly in each meal
3. Lower the kcals
4. Lower the PWO/PPWO carb intake slightly
5. Supplement Use
6. Had a HUGE cheat day

Thanks so much all of you bros for your input, i will address your's slizzut

1. Already implementing more cardio....(2nd week into that, was the first thing i thought about, maybe to early to see results?)

2. I have actually dropped my EFA intake due to fat gram being to high in my overall approach, (ex: i was having tuna w/ 1 tbsp mayo and 1 tbsp flax, this equals 11g fat from mayo plus 14 from Flax totaling 25g in one sitting)

3. Lowering kcals of course is an option but i am running pretty low around 2100-2300 depending on lift day or not...i will adress it though no doubt.

4. Definately going to tweak my PWO as i for the most part don't measure the dex like i should...PPWO i grab 3-4 fingers worth of brown rice so i know the carbs are fine with this meal...

5. Supps? Thinkiong of bumping my ECA to 2x a day, have previously ran it 1x a day before cardio only.

6. I will think about having an actual all out cheat day or two but **** just thinking about it makes me want to gag...if it is for the best..so be it.

**Panzerfaust** · 02-08-2005, 11:53 AM

OK, since my lifting schedule is Mon, Wed, Sat, Sun....when would be a good time to have these "2 cheat days" to get back on track....I usually have my cheat meal on Saturday as my meal after PWO....

I am taking into account, this is a last resort as i do not want to cheat for 2 whole days....i feel rough after a cheat meal let alone 2 all out cheat days but i do understand the reasoning behind it.

**slizzut** · 02-08-2005, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

Thanks so much all of you bros for your input, i will address your's slizzut

1. Already implementing more cardio....(2nd week into that, was the first thing i thought about, maybe to early to see results?)

2. I have actually dropped my EFA intake due to fat gram being to high in my overall approach, (ex: i was having tuna w/ 1 tbsp mayo and 1 tbsp flax, this equals 11g fat from mayo plus 14 from Flax totaling 25g in one sitting)

3. Lowering kcals of course is an option but i am running pretty low around 2100-2300 depending on lift day or not...i will adress it though no doubt.

4. Definately going to tweak my PWO as i for the most part don't measure the dex like i should...PPWO i grab 3-4 fingers worth of brown rice so i know the carbs are fine with this meal...

5. Supps? Thinkiong of bumping my ECA to 2x a day, have previously ran it 1x a day before cardio only.

6. I will think about having an actual all out cheat day or two but **** just thinking about it makes me want to gag...if it is for the best..so be it.

I think you should just have 1 all out cheat day. Also you can take ECA 3x a day if you wanted.

**smegs** · 02-08-2005, 12:16 PM

ECA stack 3x a day? - thats a lot IMO
i think have a MASSIVE cheat day, that alwasy does it for me when im begining to platue
best of luck keep us posted

**slizzut** · 02-08-2005, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by smegs

ECA stack 3x a day? - thats a lot IMO
i think have a MASSIVE cheat day, that alwasy does it for me when im begining to platue
best of luck keep us posted

ECA 3x a day is standard.

**chuck89gt5.0** · 02-08-2005, 01:02 PM

In MOST cases it usually means you have to drop overall calories a bit more.Maybe tweak the macronutrient ratio.Try dropping your carbs really low for a few days then go back to your normal diet.

**Starkraven** · 02-08-2005, 01:12 PM

actually i would INCREASE the calories, not drop them for a few days to get the body OUT of dieting to shock it. a cheat will help too.

**Panzerfaust** · 02-08-2005, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by slizzut

ECA 3x a day is standard.

I probably need to take some benadryl to combat tolerance etc...Have you ever tried this? I am told it works well...just take some benadryl (at least i think it is Benadryl) before bed for almost a week and tolerance should be back to normal?

I will check my weight after this week as i have changed a few things and if no real change..i will give in and have one hell of a cheat DAY...god that sounds terrible...ughh....i pray that it is all for the best....

Lets see:

Hooters wings and fries...chinese buffet for dinner.....

**slizzut** · 02-08-2005, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I probably need to take some benadryl to combat tolerance etc...Have you ever tried this? I am told it works well...just take some benadryl (at least i think it is Benadryl) before bed for almost a week and tolerance should be back to normal?

I will check my weight after this week as i have changed a few things and if no real change..i will give in and have one hell of a cheat DAY...god that sounds terrible...ughh....i pray that it is all for the best....

Lets see:

Hooters wings and fries...chinese buffet for dinner.....

Yeah some people do use benedryl because they get restlessness on the ephedrine/caffiene. Just let loose and enjoy yourself for one day, eat up! Then hit the cardio hard the next day.

**bor** · 02-08-2005, 03:31 PM

I honestly believe that 2 cheat days is all you need to shock your body awake.
And for how long have you been running the ECA?

**Starkraven** · 02-08-2005, 04:21 PM

no. a good cheat MEAL not day. one cheat day can actually make you gain fat.

**angelxterminator** · 02-08-2005, 04:45 PM

I wouldn't drop your kcals much lower unless you absolutely HAVE to. That is not very high as it is. Dropping your fat intake was a good idea, and should help some, as well as the AM cardio....

Here is what i personally would do...
Drop the fat intake (you did already)
Bump up the cardio (did already)
slightly lower my pwo shake (for me from 50pro/100dex to 30/60)
Start on an ECA stack pre-cardio, and pre-workout

Have a cheat day...that doesn't mean i would go destroy the dollar menu at mcdonalds... That means i would pile in carbs like no tomorrow. Try to keep fat intake decent, and carb up like a mofo.
My day would look like this, and our stats are similar. Not sure about your body composition though!

meal 1
whey isolate 50 protein
2 cups oatmeal 108 carbs 12 fat 15(?) protein

meal 2
6 ounces of pasta (preferably wheat...gluten free) ~120carbs
8 ounces chicken, other lean meat, etc.~50 protein

meal 3 PWO
50 pro/ 100dex

meal 4 ppwo
8 ounces chicken ~50 pro
rice, pasta, etc. enough to be 100 carbs

meal 5
eye of round....7 ounces...55 protein, 10 fat

meal 6
lean burger...50 protein, 18 fat

meal 7
casein protein shake
flax oil

**Panzerfaust** · 02-08-2005, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Starkraven

no. a good cheat MEAL not day. one cheat day can actually make you gain fat.

A cheat meal will not throw my body off balance like a cheat day would, this is the whole point of the cheat day...i currently only have a cheat meal.....

**bor** · 02-09-2005, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Starkraven

no. a good cheat MEAL not day. one cheat day can actually make you gain fat.

no. a good cheat DAY not meal.

OR TWO. His metabolism has sloved down from the dieting and the cheat days will speed it up again!

**Panzerfaust** · 02-09-2005, 07:24 AM

I have been running ECA over a month, gonna start 2x a day....

**RONINASAUNA** · 02-09-2005, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I have been running ECA over a month, gonna start 2x a day....

Are you actually running an ECA you put together yourself? or just a regular fat burner?

**bor** · 02-09-2005, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I have been running ECA over a month, gonna start 2x a day....

Well, I don't think you're gonna have much use from it anymore, you need at least 2 weeks off to upregulate your receptors

**SplinterCell** · 02-09-2005, 07:40 AM

Out of curiousity, when was the last rest WEEK you've had? If it was more than 8 weeks ago or so I say you take a week off from lifting but continue to eat clean....you'd be surprized to what a good week's rest can do to your body

**Panzerfaust** · 02-09-2005, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by bor

Well, I don't think you're gonna have much use from it anymore, you need at least 2 weeks off to upregulate your receptors

This is where Benadryl comes in, i will have to re-read the post on it from awhile back though.

I still feel the effect of my ECA, and yes i make my own ECA stack.

A week off from lifting, not gonna happen....might happen when i move to Texas next month while trying to find a gym.

**bor** · 02-09-2005, 08:18 AM

Oh yeah I'd have problems with a rest week also...........don't expect too much from benadryl or ketotifen - ECAs effect fades after a month whatever you do...

**SplinterCell** · 02-09-2005, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

A week off from lifting, not gonna happen....might happen when i move to Texas next month while trying to find a gym.

Taking a week off from training every 8 to 10 weeks is very important for overall recuperation and muscle growth.

Many people have a psychological barrier to taking time off from training

They feel like they are going to shrink. Not so.

This week off allows your body to repair and grow. It is literally recovering from 8 or 10 straight weeks of heavy training. Fed properly, your body during this CR phase will be in a very high "anabolic" state. Muscle growth and repair will be constant 24 hours a day.

One very important thing, well, actually two. Do not do any type of strenuous aerobic or anaerobic activity during this week. You don't have to be a slug, but refrain from any exhausting or physically taxing activities.

Also, you should consume plenty of lean protein during this CR as well. When you take a week off from training you still need to eat and supplement properly for growth to occur. In fact, is vitally import during this phase.

That's taken off a Max-OT training guide but I think it still holds true, good luck though bro

**Panzerfaust** · 02-09-2005, 08:52 AM

I was thinking about having a cheat meal today and one on Saturday? I am thinking this might "trick" my body and i can once again get back on track. What i am trying to say by this is that if i have a cheat meal today and then finish off clean, have another clean day and then have another cheat meal on Saturday, i am thinking this might confuse my body...although i am just guessing. (I did say cheat MEAL not cheat day).

What i would do is have a cheat meal and finish the rest of my day off normal w/ lifting (today is chest/shoulders). Same goes for Saturday which is what i am currently doing once a week.

I am gonna have to throw it off and while 2 cheat days sound good and i think that would definately throw my body off, i will use that as a last resort but will do it if needed.

**slizzut** · 02-09-2005, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I was thinking about having a cheat meal today and one on Saturday? I am thinking this might "trick" my body and i can once again get back on track. What i am trying to say by this is that if i have a cheat meal today and then finish off clean, have another clean day and then have another cheat meal on Saturday, i am thinking this might confuse my body...although i am just guessing. (I did say cheat MEAL not cheat day).

What i would do is have a cheat meal and finish the rest of my day off normal w/ lifting (today is chest/shoulders). Same goes for Saturday which is what i am currently doing once a week.

I am gonna have to throw it off and while 2 cheat days sound good and i think that would definately throw my body off, i will use that as a last resort but will do it if needed.

I think you should just do 1 big cheat day, or cheat half day.

**Panzerfaust** · 02-09-2005, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by slizzut

I think you should just do 1 big cheat day, or cheat half day.

Yeah, i already ate my "clean" meal and hav decided to wait and see where my weight is Friday and then have a cheat "DAY" on Saturday if necessary.

**slizzut** · 02-09-2005, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

Yeah, i already ate my "clean" meal and hav decided to wait and see where my weight is Friday and then have a cheat "DAY" on Saturday if necessary.

Cool man.. good luck

**Panzerfaust** · 02-09-2005, 01:20 PM

I will keep you guys posted, i am hoping i break the barrier Friday.....

**dalcowbag** · 02-09-2005, 01:27 PM

ECA??? what are you guys high or somethin, hes only doing 5 days of cardio, on emeal has 25 grams of protein in it and. . well theres more. do cardio everyday for an hour, that will blast you through your rut. Clen??? u morons

DCB

**bor** · 02-09-2005, 02:03 PM

I really hope that a smiley was supossed to go after the morons comment, coz if not u should work on your attitude

**dalcowbag** · 02-09-2005, 02:17 PM

hahahahahaha

**bor** · 02-09-2005, 02:24 PM

????

**dalcowbag** · 02-09-2005, 02:28 PM

just laughin at you and this horrible thread filled with tons of aweful advice

dcb

**bor** · 02-09-2005, 02:33 PM

Awwwwh thats ok then, I love it when people laugh at me, especially over the net.

As for the "aweful" advice, we're all a bunch of fat idiots so you really can't expect much from us.

**dalcowbag** · 02-09-2005, 02:36 PM

why is the first suggest i see ALL THE TIME when someone hits a plateu "clen" this and "ECA" that. I think alot of ppl here should take a looong look in the mirror. not you of course, i dont know you. but ppl gotta stop and think. too many "Kids" on this board

DCB

**angelxterminator** · 02-09-2005, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by dalcowbag

why is the first suggest i see ALL THE TIME when someone hits a plateu "clen" this and "ECA" that. I think alot of ppl here should take a looong look in the mirror. not you of course, i dont know you. but ppl gotta stop and think. too many "Kids" on this board

DCB

fo sho....

too many people say to take something for their fat loss/muscle gain, while the problem really resides within somebody's diet/training structure.

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