is using gear early truly short changing yourself?

[IronReload04]

just got a question. PLEASE READ THIS. I AM NOT CONSIDERING USING GEAR NOW. DO NOT RELPLY BY SAYING YOU NEED TO HOLD OFF. I KNOW THAT. PEOPLE DO THIS ALL THE TIME WHEN I ASK QUESTIONS. THEY DONT READ THE WHOLE POST, AND THEN END UP THINKING I AM ASKING IF IT IS OK TO USE GEAR.

here is my question. lets say you have 2 twins, same genetics. they both eat and train the same. lets say they are each 5'8 and 170. twin one uses gear and gets up to 195 and is looking pretty jacked. he continues to use gaining here and there. Twin 2 stays natural. takes the next couple of years to gain natural and makes his way up to 200 and lookin pretty good. lets say they both have the same work ethic and resources, will twin b, the one who waited, achieve greater success in the long run and be more massive since he waited longer?

i guess the question is this....will you eventually pass up and be light years ahead of guys (that started gear early) if you wait it out and gain more naturally? or once you start gear, no matter how early, the gains just keep coming as if you did get bigger naturally first?

[j martini]

Personally i think it makes no difference in the overall outcome. I dont believe your body has a natural maximum amount of muscle that it can build and a seperate chemical maimum amount of muscle. All drugs do is speed up the muscle building process. A natural guy with a few years of training might only be able to build 3-4 pounds of muscle a year max. While a chemical enhanced bodybuilder might be able to build treble this and i mean real MUSCLE not bodyweight anyone can bulk up 40 pounds and diet down to only find 4 pounds of actual muscle.

If you look at guys like Lee Priest who started juicing at 19 and flex wheeler who started at 14 in fact he never trained naturally. Even jay cutler won the teenage nationals at 18 and turned pro young so was obviously using it did not seem to effect their overall results.

[XxElitexX]

gear always wins the race of natural...not even close.

[fitnessguy]

I think it does matter... If i could change the past, i would have waited , and learned as much as i could about juice, diet, supplements, training, etc...
With that said I think you should be at your GENETIC peak before starting. It maxamizes your gains IMO. I have a friend that's 23 and started his first cycle a couple weeks ago and he's doing everything right (to my knowledge). He's peaked at ~200lbs naturally with a great physique.
just an example that came to mind....

[thegodfather]

I'd be interested to hear some more opinions on this...As I have a close friend of mine who started juicin at the age of 17 in his junior year...He did a 10 week Test E cycle at 500mg/ew...He gained about 20lbs from it, and looked great when he was done. Could he have achieved the same results naturally? I think so, but not in 10 weeks. I do agree however that it is IDEAL to be at your natural limits before considering gear...

[MrMondodondo]

What happened to boozin and screwin???/

When I was 17, sure I trained. But, for gods sake man, go get laid. Forget steroid chat boards and turn those natural young hormones loose!

[Pale Horse]

ahhhh the good ole days Mondo!

[MrMondodondo]

No kiddin.

Wait till the boyo's our age and this is all we got left!!!!!

Youth.......such a tragedy. makes me almost want to PM badgerman. nahhhhhhh...

[IronReload04]

bump....i think i came up with a good interesting question and would like to hear from more bros who have been around the block

[alluprbdy]

Personally i think it makes no difference in the overall outcome. I dont believe your body has a natural maximum amount of muscle that it can build and a seperate chemical maimum amount of muscle. All drugs do is speed up the muscle building process. A natural guy with a few years of training might only be able to build 3-4 pounds of muscle a year max. While a chemical enhanced bodybuilder might be able to build treble this and i mean real MUSCLE not bodyweight anyone can bulk up 40 pounds and diet down to only find 4 pounds of actual muscle.

If you look at guys like Lee Priest who started juicing at 19 and flex wheeler who started at 14 in fact he never trained naturally. Even jay cutler won the teenage nationals at 18 and turned pro young so was obviously using it did not seem to effect their overall results.

**** 14 yrs old thats insane.

[Diesel]

I think if you took two identical twins and had one start using gear when he was 18 while the other waited until he was 25.

By the age of 30 the one who waited longer would be well ahead of the other.

Gear should be used when you have fullfilled your natural potential and not before IMO.

[worldtraveln]

I think the one that uses gear would come out ahead. I mean if he only does one good cycle he would probably have a 20 pound jump start on the other. This would be hard to overcome naturally. The only downside could be that his natural test production never quite comes back to his original base line levels. Then keeping his steroid gains and continuing to grow naturally would diminish greatly.

[smegs]

I think if you took two identical twins and had one start using gear when he was 18 while the other waited until he was 25.

By the age of 30 the one who waited longer would be well ahead of the other.

Gear should be used when you have fullfilled your natural potential and not before IMO.

im going to agree with you here diesel

[thegodfather]

The only downside could be that his natural test production never quite comes back to his original base line levels. Then keeping his steroid gains and continuing to grow naturally would diminish greatly.

This is repeated over and over as a reason not to juice early. However, in none of these posts has anyone ever posted alongside it any conclusive evidence or studies that would either suggest or prove this as a fact. C130, can you back up that statement with any evidence or clinical studies? I'm interested in this topic and would like to see something to substantiate it...

[worldtraveln]

No I don't have any studies on the subject. However just take a look at the anecdotal evidence available on this board. There are several posts of people months and sometimes years after a cycle having libido and other side effects of low test as a result of not returning to a natural base line. I know BDTR says that he now has to take test for life. I am assuming that this is due to his steriod use. So no I cannot scientifically prove to you that you might not return to your natural baseline. However if you do not believe that it is a real possibility than you are kidding yourself.

[thegodfather]

I dont really have an opinion on the subject one way or the other, thats why I asked for a study. It sounds very logical, but I like to see evidence, know what I mean?

[A_Pro]

I started early, age 18.

The biggest thing that comes to my mind:

1) I wonder how tall I would have gotten if I had waited; &
2) Would my wrists have been so small if I had waited;

Bone growth plates cap when you take juice too early... so I always wonder what my physique would be like if I had waited 3 more years when I was 100% done growing, now I'll never know.

But... if you ask me, it was a small price to pay. I take full responsibility and honestly feel I did myself a favor by taking serious action to become what I wanted. I wanted to look good, be confident and be 'the man' with girls.

I could have sat around and dreamed like a lil'bytch -- or I could have researched, worked my ass off at the gym, held my head up and stuck in pin in my ass. I paid my dues to manifest what I wanted in to reality... no regrets at all.

Aim for dead center, pull the trigger, ride the bullet and enjoy the ride!!

[Rickson]

I think by strengthening tendons and joints from natural training in his early years the twin who waits will be able to handle larger weights, have a better frame, and have less injuries allowing him to achieve more later.

[fitnessguy]

I think if you took two identical twins and had one start using gear when he was 18 while the other waited until he was 25.

By the age of 30 the one who waited longer would be well ahead of the other.

Gear should be used when you have fullfilled your natural potential and not before IMO.

Agreed!!