High Calories build muscles???

[mikeysauce]

I have a question...It may seem stupid but I have got a bunch of different replies from this question...

I understand that protein builds muscles...it's as simple as that...However, how come when people say to be big you need to eat big...does this imply to be big meaning lots of muscle and also fat ...

If I am eating the amount of calories to stay at my intended weight but eating about 2g of protein per body weight vs. eating 4000 calories and 2g of protein per body weight... will that extra amount of calories help build muscle? Are those other calories...the carbs, fats, etc. help build muscle or simply only the protein deals in how big your actual muscles are?

[joevette]

Carbs are essential for muscle growth. Check out the diet forum.

[mikeysauce]

yea carbs supply the energy for maximum intensity when you are working out.....anything else???

[joevette]

yea carbs supply the energy for maximum intensity when you are working out.....anything else???

Carbs aren't just for energy during a workout. You could take 40mg of ephedrine before your workout while eating no carbs all day and you'll have energy to workout but you won't gain any muscle.

[Ntpadude]

I have a question...It may seem stupid but I have got a bunch of different replies from this question...

I understand that protein builds muscles...it's as simple as that...However, how come when people say to be big you need to eat big...does this imply to be big meaning lots of muscle and also fat ...

If I am eating the amount of calories to stay at my intended weight but eating about 2g of protein per body weight vs. eating 4000 calories and 2g of protein per body weight... will that extra amount of calories help build muscle? Are those other calories...the carbs, fats, etc. help build muscle or simply only the protein deals in how big your actual muscles are?

Most people need to consume about 6000 to 10,000 calaries ABOVE your maintenance calaries to grow each 1 pound of lean muscle. This is of course if your anabolism is ready for this (hormones) and your training. Its very easy to consume more calaries then your body is willing to grow a pound of muscle so you end up growing fat along with it. Forcing calaries much above your hormone levels, anabolism, training, etc will not necessarily grow your muscle faster then if you hit the calaries your body wants just right, so its a fine line that only you can determine because everyone is different. If you are gorging yourself on calaries and notice your belly button line increasing substantially, then you are needlessly overdoing it on the calarie side.

[arnoldwannab]

Agree, everyone is different and while I have a great matabolism, I can eat upwards of about 8k-9k calories a day and pack on slabs of muscle without the worry of adding inches to my waist line. The more I eat, the more I grow, simple as that.

[jbone30]

Yes and there is also the ones you keep and the ones that go to waste so you have to eat more to compinsate for the ones that go to waste...
Protien utilization %
Eggs (whole) 94
milk 82
fish 80
cheese 70
brown rice 70
meat and fowl 68

you see your tuna may say 20g protien per serving but your only using maybe 80% of that so ya make up for it (eating big) ..I for one am alot stronger day by day depending how many cals I took in that day or before..even if its crap

[BWhitaker]

I think that the main point with eating far above maintenence are as follows:

1)if you eat less than maintenence, you cannot create new mass
2) If you are not getting enough calories, your body will convert your protein and use it as energy as it would sugar therefore robbing you of proteins muscle building properties
3) Your body requires a lot of energy in order to create new mass

[joevette]

Yes and there is also the ones you keep and the ones that go to waste so you have to eat more to compinsate for the ones that go to waste...
Protien utilization %
Eggs (whole) 94
milk 82
fish 80
cheese 70
brown rice 70
meat and fowl 68

you see your tuna may say 20g protien per serving but your only using maybe 80% of that so ya make up for it (eating big) ..I for one am alot stronger day by day depending how many cals I took in that day or before..even if its crap

This is interesting, I've never seen protein utilization quantified. Where did you get this info?

[jbone30]

Arnold Im currently reading his encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding...Interesting stuff..It just so happens thats the page Im on..lol..theres more about it

[Ntpadude]

This is interesting, I've never seen protein utilization quantified. Where did you get this info?

He's close but I think it actually described the mix of various amino acids and how they are balanced with the BCAA. I believe most meats have less then ideal balance between arginine, glutamine and tryptophane, for example so the protein rating has 100% as the perfect balance and lesser percentages for source that are short or low on some BCAA's as compared to your needs as a human. I believe it works out more closer to this:

whey and eggs = 100%
chicken = 92%
beef = 87%
seafood/tuna = 80%

My numbers are not exact from the book but its close to what I recall reading... other protein bearing items from the vegitable source family and all but soybeans totally lack 2 or more BCAA's and are something like this:

soybean = 58%
mushrooms = 40%
peanuts = 23%
beans = 21%

[longhornDr]

I understand that protein builds muscles...it's as simple as that...However, how come when people say to be big you need to eat big...does this imply to be big meaning lots of muscle and also fat ...

It's really not as simple as that. Protein does not build muscle, it is just one of the raw materials.

That's kind of like saying bricks build buildings. In actuality we know that you need more than bricks to build a building, you need lots of workers and other materials.

The body is the same way in that it needs lots of energy and hormones to convert protein into muscle, which is where the "eat big to get big" thing comes from.

[taiboxa]

its all about bioavailability! and having the proper macronutrients i prefer the 55/30/15 pro carb fat %'s but to each their own. You really only need carbs to aid in proteinsynthesis and pre/post workout and fat for fuel to help initiate lipolysis
YAY lipolysis~

[jbone30]

Ill just eat everything in front of me and sort it all out later in cardio ..Im a fat mofo right now

[sbeast007]

if you are already on the plump side and then start eating even more cals your just gonna make yourself even fatter arent you?

[dazbo]

I think that the main point with eating far above maintenence are as follows:

1)if you eat less than maintenence, you cannot create new mass
2) If you are not getting enough calories, your body will convert your protein and use it as energy as it would sugar therefore robbing you of proteins muscle building properties
3) Your body requires a lot of energy in order to create new mass

A friend of mine has just finished a cycle that included winny deca and test. He does a LOT of cardio, and I means hours a day. Including some boxing but mainly running. He also does weights, but less than the amount of cardio he does.

Anyway, my point is, after 10 weeks he gained around 21lbs, AND his fat dropped. His aim was ONLY to lose the fat (Not that he had much) but he ended up gaining weight.

Now, I know his diet was consistent at approx 2900cals, plenty of protein etc because I wrote his diet for him, I also work with him and sometimes train with him so I know what he does/is eating.

Now going by his weight, approx 160lbs, and moderate activity during the day, his maintenance cals should be 3000 approx.

He also did a LOT of cardio, quite often twice per day, so when you take this into account he was probably WELL under 1000cals below maintenance.

YET HE STILL GAINED 21lbs (Approx) ?!!

If what you say is true, then HOW ?????

[k@m NYC]

It's really not as simple as that. Protein does not build muscle, it is just one of the raw materials.

That's kind of like saying bricks build buildings. In actuality we know that you need more than bricks to build a building, you need lots of workers and other materials.

The body is the same way in that it needs lots of energy and hormones to convert protein into muscle, which is where the "eat big to get big" thing comes from.

yeah you need mortar too

[Sigmund Froid]

Water retention would, at least in part, explain the weight gain.

[BWhitaker]

A friend of mine has just finished a cycle that included winny deca and test. He does a LOT of cardio, and I means hours a day. Including some boxing but mainly running. He also does weights, but less than the amount of cardio he does.

Anyway, my point is, after 10 weeks he gained around 21lbs, AND his fat dropped. His aim was ONLY to lose the fat (Not that he had much) but he ended up gaining weight.

Now, I know his diet was consistent at approx 2900cals, plenty of protein etc because I wrote his diet for him, I also work with him and sometimes train with him so I know what he does/is eating.

Now going by his weight, approx 160lbs, and moderate activity during the day, his maintenance cals should be 3000 approx.

He also did a LOT of cardio, quite often twice per day, so when you take this into account he was probably WELL under 1000cals below maintenance.

YET HE STILL GAINED 21lbs (Approx) ?!!

If what you say is true, then HOW ?????

What i said still holds true, just how i said it was more simple than how it really is. The body does not, at the end of the day, count up how many calories it had and then decide if it is above or below. Everything it does is, for the most part, instantaneous, in that if at a said time you are in a positive calorie balace you can build mass and if you are in a neg cal balance then you will lose mass. The following example is just to illustrate my point, it is not meant to show how one should go about eating:

the first half of the day, you are in a negative calorie balance and ate the proper macronutrients. You loose .1lbs of fat.

The second half of the day, you are in a positive calorie balance and ate the proper macronutrients. You gain .2lbs of muscle.

After 5 days, you will have gained 1/2 pound (a gain of one pound muscle, and a loss of 1/2 fat)

Like i said, this just used for an example

For your buddy to have gained weight, he HAD to have been in a positive calorie balance for the right times. This could be certain days, or certain parts of the days, etc.

I still am a believer that one should pick a goal (lose or gain) for the simple fact that it is very difficult to do this correctly. Only advanced ones should attempt

[mark956101957]

Agree, everyone is different and while I have a great matabolism, I can eat upwards of about 8k-9k calories a day and pack on slabs of muscle without the worry of adding inches to my waist line. The more I eat, the more I grow, simple as that.

I call Bull****! No way are you going to eat 9Kcals and not put on fat dude! LOL

[saluu]

i agree you will gain alittle fat with muscle no doubt

[chris2wire]

From my own personal experiance...

You CAN grow muscle with just normal amounts of calories. Its all about hitting the gym hard and making your body put more into muscles than anything else.

But, after living like this and being happy with the gains and fat-loss I started going out drinking at night... I made the most enourmous gains I had EVER made. Why? It was the mass of calories I was taking in right before bed.

The fact is you can gain even on a low calorie diet, but dont expect much and dont expect it fast.

As for carbs... I do low carb. However, my muscles DO shrink from being depleted. WOrkouts during this time are hard to do... Loading up 1-2 days before a workout makes a HUGE difference. Pumps are huge, weights are higher, etc etc.

So for me eating calories a little above normal and eating normal amounts of carbs are my best bet.

[dazbo]

Appreciate those replies guys and am hearing what you're saying. But, I would still stand and say that there is no need to eat 9000 cals per day unless youre a 350lb+ monster ! Otherwise you'd just be gaining fat and I dont think its worth it - lean gains are better IMO

[AandF6969]

A friend of mine has just finished a cycle that included winny deca and test. He does a LOT of cardio, and I means hours a day. Including some boxing but mainly running. He also does weights, but less than the amount of cardio he does.

Anyway, my point is, after 10 weeks he gained around 21lbs, AND his fat dropped. His aim was ONLY to lose the fat (Not that he had much) but he ended up gaining weight.

Now, I know his diet was consistent at approx 2900cals, plenty of protein etc because I wrote his diet for him, I also work with him and sometimes train with him so I know what he does/is eating.

Now going by his weight, approx 160lbs, and moderate activity during the day, his maintenance cals should be 3000 approx.

He also did a LOT of cardio, quite often twice per day, so when you take this into account he was probably WELL under 1000cals below maintenance.

YET HE STILL GAINED 21lbs (Approx) ?!!

If what you say is true, then HOW ?????

Genetics, Metabolism differences, also remember the harris-benedict formula for calories is an ESTIMATION.... everyone is different.

[GrantC5]

I'm going to eat a big mac now.......thats my diet.

[Ntpadude]

I'm going to eat a big mac now.......thats my diet.

I think dieting without exercise isnt going to loose anybody any fat. Likewise by increasing my overall exercise plan and activity level, I have reduced my body fat from 22% to 9% over the last year. What is my usual weekday diet look like? 50 grams protein in shake form for breakfast, Wendy's triple for lunch, never do diet sodas, although sometimes I do salad instead of fries. For mid afternoon snack, I slide over to macdonalds and get a 9 to 10 piece chicken mcnuggets. At home about or sometimes after gym 50 grams in protein shake, dinner about 7:3o to 8 PM, I have 10 ounce steak AND couple chicken breasts on average or something equivalent. 10 PM I get 50 more grams in protein shake, then before bed at midnight I get another protein shake and yogart.

[SplinterCell]

I'm going to eat a big mac now.......thats my diet.

Hardees Thick Burgers are where its at

[flabbywussy]

i hear alot of people saying " i eat alot and then sort it out later in cardio"

if you are working out and doing cardio , how do you know how many carbs you should eat/day?

isn't doing cardio and working out and eating above maintenance just the same as keeping your calories at maintenance and not doing cardio, because you're burning off those extra carbs?

[flabbywussy]

so wouldn't it be better just to keep calories at maintenance then to go above and bust @ss doing cardio?

[dazbo]

so wouldn't it be better just to keep calories at maintenance then to go above and bust @ss doing cardio?

I think a lot of people do just that - and skip the cardio. Makes sense, the more cardio you do, the more catabolic state you're in. So NOT doing loadsa cardio would mean you're NOT in a catabolic state. So if you ate maintenance (Which after a weights training sesh 3-5 times per week;you'd be burning more than you're eating) then you'd lose fat and negligable muscle - in theory ?? Agree ??