HCG, to use or not to use?

[Logan13]

I am on the following cycle:
Prop 100 mg ED 15 weeks
EQ 150mg EOD 12 weeks
Nolva 20mg capsules ED
Liquidex 3 squirts/day
have clomid/nolva/liquidex/trib. for pct.

Should I get some HCG, and if so when/how should I run it? Researching HCG has been an uphill battle. I really need some guidance on this one as HCG seems to be very misunderstood by most.

thanks,
Logan13

[wolfyEVH]

i personally would never use it......unless i was cycling for almost a year straight...just to shock my balls......

[magicstick2003]

i see no reason not to use it, if you can afford it. I mean ti's prevents atrophy so i would rather not have to wait for my nuts to get back to full size, could help aid in speeding eerything up as well.

[Logan13]

bump for more please.

[toc67guru]

i agree with magicstick2003(where do you's get these "handles" from?)

keeping the testes from atrophying(shrinking) will aid i.m.HUMBLEST of opinions in a faster recovery of the HPTA when pct cycle is started.
it is the shrinkage that is thought to slow recovery time as the testes have been left (if no hcg has been used during the cycle) in a redundant state for an extended period of time.LH rebounds rather quickly on cessation of a cycle but if the testes are unresponsive from inactivity or not functioning to their(if you have two of them!) full potential this will impede recovery.

swale(NOT ONLY A trt specialist but a thoroughly handsome man(we're talking Brad Pitt standards)also an ARIES star sign i believe) recommends hcg be used from the onset of the cycle at low doses(250iu-500iu twice per week) to send a false signal to the testes to keep producing testosterone.

you will get answers which states this will cause desensitisation of the leydig cells from over use of hcg.

this is totally inaccurate as I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE ALL AND I MEAN ALL WRONG !

SO GET OVER IT !!

desensitsation is caused by high doses of hcg over long periods which cause excessive aromatisation.


this answer will be picked apart by so called EXPERTS i would however ask if anyone is going to flame me on my personal opinion they explain thoroughly why they disagree and show me the error of my ways!
(highly unlikely as i am PERFECT and always have been)

before you ask of my experience with the said topic i will tell you i am 15 1/4 years of age,5 foot 5 inches tall and weigh in at hefty 134 1/2 lbs with a B.F % of 0.0001. BEAT THAT !

do not question me as i have been on steroids since i was 4 3/4 years of age.



my profile is total bull-sh1t but the advice is mine and i am intitled to it !

SO THERE !!




i am sorry for the above post but i am on ECA ,off work and bored out of my SKULL !

good advice though !

[cut260]

In your particular case it comes down to personal preference because your cycle is very mild and conservative; however there is not a negative to using HCG unless used too far along PCT. When doing more aggressive cycles then you want to use 5000units of HCG in a single injection every month to keep the testes stimulated and prevent atrophy. HCG is very anabolic and has the same effect as 1 Sust 250, so there are benefits to gains as well when incorporating HCG into your regime.

[toc67guru]

certainly dose hcg at 5000iu/month by single injection if you want to have the best and most impressive gynaecomastia(bitch tits) in your state !

[cut260]

You have no idea what you are talking about toc67guru. HCG does not act that way in any way shape or form. And considering me and many pros use the same approach and dont have gyno - the proof is right in front of you. Please refrain from making statements based on no facts what so ever. Also this was introduced by one of the olympic coaches who has completed his PhD on the very issue, so please dont act as if you have more knowledge than they do

[cut260]

Also you probably forgot that the only way to get gyno is by a reduction in testosterone levels resulting in an increase in estrogen levels. HCG is not testosterone nor estrogen. In fact it stimulates natural testosterone production and prevents testicular atrophy so actually it will prevent gyno - not encourage it.

So that was the very first point against your little claim of yours that proves you are incorrect. Try reading up and educating yourself on some things so that when you make posts you dont put your foot in your mouth or mis lead anyone.

[toc67guru]

cut260 i sent you an email or pm it is so looong ago i cannot honestly remember!

i am certainly not going to apologise to you on an open platform for having a different opinion(i will do that privately).

can i ask are you currently on TREN? (only kidding!)

[toc67guru]

i want to state for the record i am not a PRO nor do i have a PhD just a lowly janitor like hong kong fuey(so i must be wrong!)

in my defence i offer exhibit A:-


Click Drug Names to View Profile: HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin)

[toc67guru]

exhibit B in my defence written by some guy SWALE(not only a trt specialist):-

this is intended for AAS using athletes,many seem to assume swale treats only hypogonadal males go to his website www.allthingsmale.com
to see what he offers by consultation.

(quote)My PCT Protocol

Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

[mark956101957]

If you notice some atrophy to your testicles than try 500iu two days in a row every week. Using large amounts of hcg can cause gyno since it induces your body to make testosterone which in turn can cause estrogen related gyno.

[NIVEK]

Guys, I've done some research on HCG, I'm not quite sure if I should run small doses ever day or a 2x's a week!

The HCG I use comes in 2 bottles, and made by APP in IL, the powder, with the green label is 10,000 USP units, the Bact-water is 10ML's.

What I'd like to know from some of the pro's out here that have used it, is how much of the Bact-water should I inject into the powder so that my IU's will be correct, and on top of that, how much or how many cc's should I inject so that I can be with in the 250iu's a day or if I choose, maybe 2x's a week.

Another question, can I mix this in the same pin with my gear and just shoot up at once, or does it hvae to be injected seperatly?

I have this stuff, so why not use it? I know some say use it towards the end or before PCT, but my nuts where never that big to begin with, I like to keep what I have and follow the guidlines for the normal PCT.

Thanks for your help, I hope someone out here can give me a solid answer.

[Maetenloch]

Guys, I've done some research on HCG, I'm not quite sure if I should run small doses ever day or a 2x's a week!

The HCG I use comes in 2 bottles, and made by APP in IL, the powder, with the green label is 10,000 USP units, the Bact-water is 10ML's.

What I'd like to know from some of the pro's out here that have used it, is how much of the Bact-water should I inject into the powder so that my IU's will be correct, and on top of that, how much or how many cc's should I inject so that I can be with in the 250iu's a day or if I choose, maybe 2x's a week.

I usually add 1 ml of BW per 1000 iu of HCG to give a concentration of 1000iu/ml. In my case I have HCG in 5000iu ampules, so I first add 1 ml of BW to the opened ampule and then transfer the dissolved HCG to a 10ml sterile vial. Then I add in 4 more ml of water to the vial to get the 1000iu/ml concentration. Using BW this should be good in the refrigerator for at least 6 weeks.
Using a 1/2 CC syringe it's also easy to measure out exactly how much you want.

Another question, can I mix this in the same pin with my gear and just shoot up at once, or does it hvae to be injected seperatly?

I have this stuff, so why not use it? I know some say use it towards the end or before PCT, but my nuts where never that big to begin with, I like to keep what I have and follow the guidlines for the normal PCT.

Thanks for your help, I hope someone out here can give me a solid answer.

You can mix it in the same pin as the oil-based gear if you want. Shooting HCG IM or SubQ doesn't seem to make much difference in its effects. I believe the insert with Pregnyl says to use either.

I take 333 iu 3 days a week. This is based on SWALE's advice and a study I saw a while back showing that this level maintained intratesticular testosterone levels within normal levels (always a good thing). Plus HCG is cheap so why not add it to your cycle. It can only help with your PCT recovery.

[NIVEK]

so I'd mix all the 10ml's of BW into the powder?

just wondering, if your taking 333iu's 3x's a week, how many CC's would this come out too?

Sorry to have to ask, but I want to be sure I'm taking the correct amount!

[NIVEK]

Bump,

[Property of Steroid.com]

i want to state for the record i am not a PRO nor do i have a PhD just a lowly janitor like hong kong fuey(so i must be wrong!)

in my defence i offer exhibit A:-

by HOOKER (i think he claims to be Anabolic Reviews ANABOLIC FORUM MODERATOR or something like that.i am not sure if he is in fact a PRO or for that matter if he has a Phd)

Actually, I'm a Steroid.com writer, but not an ANABOLIC FORUM MOD. I have nothing to do with the mods here at all, and am in no way associated with them.

I certainly am not a PRO (bodybuilder?)....I can't even name one.... nor do I have a PhD. However, you'll be pleased to know I got a C+ in Chemistry and a B- in Biology, when I was in highschool...

[G-1000]

Actually, I'm a Steroid.com writer, but not an ANABOLIC FORUM MOD. I have nothing to do with the mods here at all, and am in no way associated with them.

I certainly am not a PRO (bodybuilder?)....I can't even name one.... nor do I have a PhD. However, you'll be pleased to know I got a C+ in Chemistry and a B- in Biology, when I was in highschool...

[Maetenloch]

so I'd mix all the 10ml's of BW into the powder?

just wondering, if your taking 333iu's 3x's a week, how many CC's would this come out too?

Sorry to have to ask, but I want to be sure I'm taking the correct amount!

no, just add enough BW to the amp to dissolve the HCG - 1ml should be enough. Then draw up the 1ml solution in a syringe and transfer it into a sterile vial. Next add enough water to get the concentration you want i.e. 4 more ml of BW to get 1000iu/ml (5000iu / 5ml bw = 1000iu/ml).

333iu's 3x week = 1000iu = 1ml of solution @ 1000iu/ml

[hatchblack]

subscribing....

I will be running test E and Deca for basically 18 weeks.

Any benefit to say biweekly injections of HCG for 17 weeks of so to keep testicle size up...?

[NIVEK]

QUESTION, why must I transfew it into a sterile vial? It's it already in a sterile vial?



no, just add enough BW to the amp to dissolve the HCG - 1ml should be enough. Then draw up the 1ml solution in a syringe and transfer it into a sterile vial. Next add enough water to get the concentration you want i.e. 4 more ml of BW to get 1000iu/ml (5000iu / 5ml bw = 1000iu/ml).

333iu's 3x week = 1000iu = 1ml of solution @ 1000iu/ml

[hatchblack]

He is doing that to basically have a measured dilution of the HCG for lower dose therapy.

Easier to measure out.

[The Baron]

1. Decide what your dose will be. 250iu E3D or EOD is good. 500iu E3D is good. For running only at the end of cycle, you might want 1000iu E3D or 500iu EOD for a week or two. Running long term throughout the cycle definitely calls for lower dose. For our example we will assume 250iu E3D.

2. Decide how big, volume-wise, you would like your shot to be. .5cc or 1cc are convenient. Let's use .5cc for our example.

3. Calculate the strength you need the reconstituted hcg to be. You must end up with the required dose contained in the specified volume. In this case, 250iu in .5cc. Divide the specified iu by the specified cc to get your specified strength. 250 / .5 = 500. So we need, in our example, to have 500iu/ml.

4. Determine how many iu of hcg are in the hcg vial. 5000 is typical so we will use that in our example calculations. When you actually do this, read the label. It could be 10000 or it could be 2500 or it could even be some odd amount if it is not brand name.

5. Calculate the amount of diluent that must be added to the hcg to get the required strength. Remember we specified 500iu/ml and we have 5000 iu. Divide the total iu by the strength, (iu per ml) to get the required volume of reconstituted hcg. You can ignore the tiny amount that the powder displaces and use that volume for the total amount of diluent to add. In our example, 5000iu divided by 500iu/ml equals 10ml. So we will add 10ml in our example.

6. reconstitute the hcg. If it is in an amp, you can only put a couple cc in there. THat's okay. If that is the case, add what fits comfortably or the amount supplied in the other amp, and swirl it around. It will dissolve easily. Transfer this to a vial. Be sure to wipe all vial stoppers etc with alcohol and keep everything as clean and sterile as possible. Draw up enough bacteriostatic water to make up the difference. IOW, subtract the amount of diluent you have already put in with the hcg from the total needed to get the amount you must add. Add it. Swirl it around to mix. Keep it refrigerated. Shelf life is a month in the fridge.

7. Enjoy your hcg!

For practice, calculate how much liquid you must add to a 2500 iu kit if you want to use a dose of 500iu 2x/week and you want to shoot .25cc with an insulin syringe.

[fhorst]

Amen

[scav]

What to do if one cant have the hcg in the fridge?

[The Baron]

What to do if one cant have the hcg in the fridge?

One remedies the situation. HCG must be refrigerated once it is reconstituted.

[scav]

Cant i make single injection doses from it every time i want to inject?

[The Baron]

Cant i make single injection doses from it every time i want to inject?

No.

The hcg is a fine powder. When you break open the amp, you are breaking sterility. You need to do something with it right away. That something is reconstituting and either storing it in a sterile vial, or injecting the lot. If the hcg is in a vial, the only way to divide the powder is to open the vial by removing the seal and stopper, again, violating sterile integrity. As with the amp, you then must do something with the hcg. Also I believe atmospheric moisture is enough to start the clock ticking, on the shelf life.

Dividing the powder into separate doses and saving what is not immediately needed is not an option under at-home conditions. Don't bother trying. Save it until you are ready to start using it, then reconstitute to your specifications and use it all up preferably within the month, refrigerating it at all times. In fact, I prefer to keep the unreconstituted hcg in the fridge, as well.