milk thistle will always harm your body's ability to utilize androgens

[dtr98]

anyone ever heard this b4??
milk thistle will always harm your body's ability to utilize androgens, even testosterone.

[48ngoin]

I've heard @ the enzyme help to liver. I'd like to see it stop 650mg of TestE from reaching my receptors! Sounds lame.

[rager]

Bs Dude

[punchrf]

i have a hard time believeing it could have much effect in stopping androgens. if it does have an effect i don't think it's enough to even worry about.

[dtr98]

here's whai got from another board, have to look into more.

there's persistant bullshit circulating stating that silymarin is bad to take along with orals because it increases the rate at which the liver metabolises the drug. this is false. either no effect or the opposite has been found with both alcohol and aspirin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

in vitro evidence suggests that silymarin actually inhibits drug metabolism, causing steroids to circulate in the body longer. most steroid breakdown is done by the cyp3a4 enzyme, which is significantly(dose dependant, but at least a 65% slower rate) inhibited by silymarin:

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/con...ull/28/11/1270

so why have users reported decreased steroid effects when using silymarin when the opposite should be true?

i found this study which has fascinating consequences:

http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/co...full/22/9/1399

a choice excerpt:

"SB decreased androgen-stimulated growth and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels in LNCaP cells (6). In this study, we further evaluated the effects of SM and SB on androgen action. We found that SM and SB down-regulate several androgen-regulated genes, including PSA, human glandular kallikrein (hK2) and an immunophilin, FKBP51, mainly by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR. More interestingly, we show that SM and SB can inhibit nuclear localization of the AR. Thus this report provides a novel mechanism by which SM and SB inhibit function of the AR."

or, in plain(er) english, when an androgen comes to a cell it passes through the cell membrane and binds to an androgen receptor in the cytoplasm. upon binding, the receptor/androgen bundle float to the nucleus to tell which tell the cell to alter its behaviour, i.e. in this case, "synthesize more protein and grow larger". different androgens probably relay different messages, which is why particular stacks seem to be more effective than others, despite all binding to the same receptor.

silymarin inhibits this either by preventing androgen/receptor bundles from ever reaching the nucleus, or by allowing the bundle to drift out of the nucleus easily once there.

i.e. all androgens, oral or injectable, will not work nearly as well. avoid silymarin, and please spread the word. feel free to repost this anywhere with proper acknowledgements to both marble and getbig

[crizoc]

yes its true. while on milk thistle since it helps ur liver regenerate faster, it will filter out more than normal. but not using milk thistle and getting better results is an adverse reaction from ur liver being broken down more than it would have had u protected it with MT

[dtr98]

true, do you stay on thru cycle?
i use just while i'm on orals