please recritique my cutting goals

[mrclark]

Hi, I'm having a slight slump in cutting down, and I was hoping that you all could reexamine my diet.

Current Stats

Male
27 yrs / 5'6 / 135lbs / ~16% BF

Goal : Not sure if I want to lower my weight, but drop the BF down to 12% in the foreseeable future. I'd like to stay around this weight.

I was doing a 50/30/20 ratio for some time now, but I decided today to change it to a 40/40/20 to see what happens. I feel like I'm not getting enough calories, but from what many website calculators for cutting mentioned for keeping in range, it's around the amount that I will show below :

AM FASTED CARDIO 65% MHR Treadmill ~3.5 MPH , incline auto-adjust

Meal 1
***~45-60 min after cardio
*** CHO-PRO
*** Brown Rice = 0.75 Cup
*** Baked Chicken Breast = 2.5 Oz
*** Broccoli = 1 Cup

37 g Carbohydrates (C) / 135 Cal
27 g Protein (P) / 108 Cal
7 g Fat (F) / 61 Cal

Total Caloric Intake : 317 Cal

Meal 2

*** PRO-FAT
*** Broccoli = 1 Cup
*** Boiled Egg White = 4
*** Egg Yolk = 1 (from boiled egg)
*** Hellmann’s Mayo = 1 TBSP

7 g C / 16 Cal
20 g P / 79 Cal
15 g F / 138 Cal

Total Caloric Intake : 243 Cal

Meal 3

*** CHO-PRO
*** ~2 hrs before lifting
*** Honey = 1 TBSP
*** OATS = 0.5 Cup
*** Isopure = 1.5 Scoop
*** Cinnamon = 1 TBSP

52 g C / 177 Cal
43 g P / 171 Cal
3 g F / 29 Cal

Total Caloric Intake : 389

WORKOUT

Meal 4
*** PWO
*** 15-20mins after weight training
*** SAME AS MEAL 3

*** CHO-PRO
*** ~2 hrs before lifting
*** Honey = 1 TBSP
*** OATS = 0.5 Cup
*** Isopure = 1.5 Scoop
*** Cinnamon = 1 TBSP

52 g C / 177 Cal
43 g P / 171 Cal
3 g F / 29 Cal

Total Caloric Intake : 389

Meal 5

*** PPWO
*** CHO-PRO
*** ~1 hr after PWO Meal 4
*** SAME AS MEAL 1

*** Brown Rice = 0.75 Cup
*** Baked Chicken Breast = 2.5 Oz
*** Broccoli = 1 Cup

37 g Carbohydrates (C) / 135 Cal
27 g Protein (P) / 108 Cal
7 g Fat (F) / 61 Cal

Total Caloric Intake : 317 Cal

-------
Final Totals Training Day

184 g CARBOHYDRATES (40%) / 637 CALORIES
159 g PROTEIN (40%) / 638 CALORIES
35 g FAT (20%) / 318 CALORIES

** Total Caloric Intake : 1653 Calories **

[/b]

On Non-training Days (3 days of the week) I just drop the honey and maybe the oats by a half cup, keep everything else the same. - so perhaps a 150 cal deficit.

*** Only have time to get in 5 meals (every 2-3 hrs) during the day.
*** Activity : Mostly sitting down the day / except for fasted AM cardio (6 days / week) & weight training (6-8 hours later 4 day split)

*** Sunday is day off
*** Not taKing an ECA stack.
*** considering a cheat refeed every 10 days.


Supplements used :

* multivitamin
* Vitamin C (3000mg - 5000mg split)
* Calcium (1200mg)
* Zinc (50mg)
* Water : ~1 Gal/day

I thank y'all once again for your suggestions and guidance.

[bolin]

i was doing a cutting diet.... a few weeks ago.... I was having 340g pro and 100gr carbs I was taking carbs just breakfast and PWO.... did it for only 4 weeks and so massive results......

When you reack your goal up the carbs.... but 159 g pro is TOO LOW!!!

[mrclark]

i was doing a cutting diet.... a few weeks ago.... I was having 340g pro and 100gr carbs I was taking carbs just breakfast and PWO.... did it for only 4 weeks and so massive results......

When you reack your goal up the carbs.... but 159 g pro is TOO LOW!!!

Hey bolin, thanks for the reply. I thought we need carbs-pro meal at least on PWO & PPWO meals. I was sticking to a low-GI meal 4/5 times of the day.

II;m afraid in dropping the carbs as I need them to fuel my brain while studying... at least for me personally, I am a zombie and can't comprehend crap w/o eating carbs throughout the day. I'm sticking to clean GI ones though...


- my old diet consisted of more carbs (closer to 200g's,) less protein (at least 20 grams less of my body weight)... I was ~143lbs a month back - anyways bit confused. Seems though I have to readjust it for the current weight.

[Giantz11]

Mrclark, nice job with the diet. Very good. Technically at 40/40/20 carbs and protein should be the same number, that's the only thing I can say. But the rest looks very nice, good work. I use 40/40/20 breakdown cutting and bulking and I love it. See if it works for you.

[mrclark]

Mrclark, nice job with the diet. Very good. Technically at 40/40/20 carbs and protein should be the same number, that's the only thing I can say. But the rest looks very nice, good work. I use 40/40/20 breakdown cutting and bulking and I love it. See if it works for you.

Hi Giantz, thanks alot Yeah you are right about the values - this [the uneven values] is what I got from fitday.com when plugging it in. So the amounts of protein and carbs for my situation looks ok then right? What I'm saying is, I recall Dr. Shred mentioning in a previous diet post of mine, that excessive protein for a person of my weight and size - could possibly spill over to fat gain? I might have been wrong - so sorry dr. shred if I misquoted you.

[Giantz11]

Protein is very poorly converted to fat. Its not the most efficient of processes, but if you eat way too much. Yes it most certainly can be turned to fat. But I would always try and Err on the side of a little more than a little less.

[Phixion]

Hi Giantz, thanks alot Yeah you are right about the values - this [the uneven values] is what I got from fitday.com when plugging it in. So the amounts of protein and carbs for my situation looks ok then right? What I'm saying is, I recall Dr. Shred mentioning in a previous diet post of mine, that excessive protein for a person of my weight and size - could possibly spill over to fat gain? I might have been wrong - so sorry dr. shred if I misquoted you.

Better to be cosuming extra protein than be in a protein deficit....Anyways, your breaking down and building muscle, so you need more protein than an average person of your physical stature.....Focus more on balancing the other macros like sat fat, high and low GI carbs- those will have much more of a direct effect on fat storage. Protein turning into fat should be the last of your worries,

[mrclark]

Thanks again to all of you who put their feedback here - so a 40/40/20 low gi mix throughout is what I hope to get some good results from. I guess it'll take a few weeks to kick in.

[mrclark]

Sorry, forgot to ask about my off days, a.m. cardio only sessions

-------
Final Totals Training Day
184 g CARBOHYDRATES (40%) / 637 CALORIES
159 g PROTEIN (40%) / 638 CALORIES
35 g FAT (20%) / 318 CALORIES
** Total Caloric Intake : 1653 Calories **



On Non-training Days (3 days of the week) I just drop the honey and maybe the oats by a half cup, keep everything else the same. - so perhaps a 150 cal deficit.

I just did the calculations for the non training days :

Final Non-Training (AM Cardio Days only) (3 days of the week, Sunday no caardio)

122 g C / 407 Cal (31%)
154 g P / 617 Cal (47%)
32 g F / 291 Cal (22%)

** Total Caloric Intake for Non-Training Day : 1375 Cal
** 278 Calorie Deficit : Is this too much of a drop for my situation?
, I mean the cals were low as it already is,
** I just cut out the oats by 0.5 cup and droped the honey. Kept the cinnamon and whey amounts the same in meal 3 & 4. Meals 1,2,5 are the exact same.

[SwoleCat]

I received your e-mail and have responded to your inquiry, thank you.

~SC~

[AandF6969]

IMO you should be more concerned with muscle maintenace/construction rather than dropping calories because your muscles are what give you the shape and "toned" look everyone wants, and it burns calories just sitting there.

[xtinaunasty]

damn boy...you eat less than me! i would worry about catabolism. everyone is different though. good luck!

[Giantz11]

He's 5'6" 135 cut him some slack!

[mrclark]

damn boy...you eat less than me! i would worry about catabolism. everyone is different though. good luck!

I'm still trying to reevaluate things at this current time, but for the moment yeah. I'm not sure on the catabolism issue - whether it's taking effect or if my macro ratio's & proper meal-timing would prevent that.

Hey it's better than being a 5'6, 180ish lb unhealthy, big belly fat ass like I was back in the beginning of this year.

Two pant sizes down (from 32 down to 30) & 1 inch less on dress shirts (15 1/2 down to now 14 1/2) I don't wanna drop any more really.

This board hooked me up with good knowledge for the kickstart I really needed to make my lifestyle changes. I'm feeling 1000x better! It's fine tuning time now.

[mrclark]

IMO you should be more concerned with muscle maintenace/construction rather than dropping calories because your muscles are what give you the shape and "toned" look everyone wants, and it burns calories just sitting there.

So you suggest maybe to eat at my maintence level, but continue to lift as I was (i.e. compound exercises?) Lower the am cardio days for now?

Using the Katch-Mcardle & Harris-Benedict equations, my maintence calories came out to roughly ~2100 (+/- some cal) .

My calculations all were based on the 1.375 activity level multiplier. I'm not sure if this multiplier is the best one to use (i.e. 1.375 [light exercise 1-3 days/week] or multiply using 1.55 [moderate exercise 3-5 days/week]

Okay, I lift 4 days a week for an about 1 hour & cardio in the am for 5-6 days for 45 mins. Literally, the rest of the day I am sitting down on my ass studying, heck maybe even an afternoon nap for like 45 mins. I sleep roughly 6 hours.

So which should I use 1.375 or 1.55 ? In case of the latter, my maintence would be roughly ~ +200 calories thus my maintence (@1.55) is closer to ~2300 cal.

Today's refeed day - last week I chowed down around ~3100 calories. That was tough, but the pasta, made a little tomato sauce from scratch was so good - ah how I sometimes miss the old cooking days

[Giantz11]

I think AandF is right at your size you could greatly benefit from a lean bulk at this point. Adding additional mass will give you the look you are looking for and will also alter your body comp as well. Your BF% should go down as the ratio of LBM to BF changes.

[mrclark]

Cool Giantz, think I'll start up next monday - so looks like it's back to the stickies again eh?

* Generally, do I use the the same protocol as I did for cutting pro-fat + carb-pro , ~15-17cal/lb body weight, 40/40/20 ratio would work? Approx 500 calories above current maintenence right?

* I'd probably switch from my low-gi carb PWO source to a 2-1 dex-pro source now too.

* Oh I never figured this out, what would be my muliplier to best guage my maintence? 1.375 or 1.55 (my activity is a few posts up)

* Any good lean bulking calulators out there that one of y'all have bookmarked?

After a few weeks I'm gonna hit up swolecat and see what his sgx program can do for me - so in the meantime, gonna try and tune myself up.


Thanks again to AandF and Giantz for the suggestions - cheers.

[Giantz11]

Use all the same protocols. Just eat more. Start with 500 cals about maitenance, adjust from there.

You don't have to swithc from Low-Gi bu the choice is yours.

Just stick with the 15-17 cals per Lb for bulking that is as good an estiamte you'll get.

Here's good website, has a nice calculator:
http://michaelandkendra.com/BMRCALC/bmrcalc.htm

[xtinaunasty]

when i first replied to your post i didnt realize you were 135. your calories werent as low as i thought. but i agree with Giantz and AandF in that you might find it easier (and look hotter ) if you put on some muscle before you try and cut.

As for your calorie needs. The harris whatever formula can be really inaccurate in some cases (it was off by 300 cals for me). I would suggest hitting up a large chain health club (Bally's, 24 hour, etc.) and try and get a BodyGem test. It's a really accurate way to measure your RMR. This could lessen stress of uncertainty. The only problem is its $40-$50 each test. Just a suggestion though. here is more info...

http://www.healthetech.com/bodygem/

[mrclark]

Thanks to you all again, great website link @ giantz

@xtina - wow, pretty pricey for a test huh? Maybe if I was going for raw accuracy/competition/hardcore , it would be pretty good. I'm just a regular guy trying to make and maintain a healthy lifestyle...

The two main calulators (harris-benedict & Katch-Mcardle) produce similar caloric ranges. The only way I feel that it could be innacurate is if you factor in your "TRUE" activity level INCORRECTLY - which for myself, I feel I might not note properly. It's either 1.375 or 1.55 - dunno.

But I'm sure for others the bodygem test can be a very beneficial tool. Thanks for the heads up.

On a side note, today was my 3000cal refeed. ~1000 cal over my maintenence - basically doubled up on complex low gi carbs, kept the fats to minimum. I felt like I was gonna explode - seriously, it's such a difficult task to chow down almost a pound of pasta & and 1/2 cup grits for a 12 hour run. had about 8 oz chicken throughout w/ that stuff, a teaspoon of flax and two eggs in the earlier part of the morning. . I'm looking forward to a 1000 calories less tomorrow for sure!

[jsimon]

so when bulking your carbs and protiens should match?

[mrclark]

so when bulking your carbs and protiens should match?

If you're doing a ratio of 40 C /40 P /20 C , and since 1g C = 4 cal , 1g P = 4 cal, 1g F = 9cal -

then the carb (4 cal) and protein (4 cal) ratios should be around the same.
Sometimes it's difficult to precisely match the amounts (i.e. from measuring/cooking/ - fitday.com gives weird calculated results sometimes, but close enough).

Some might choose a 50 / 30 / 20 approach, and for others, there might be ratios that suit them better. It varies individual to individual, stick w/ one a see how it goes for at least a month... then you can tweak it.

You'd add ~500calories as a start to your maintence calories w/ clean food to lean bulk. As giantz mentioned, keep your calories in a 15-17cal/lb body weight as a guideline.

http://michaelandkendra.com/BMRCALC/bmrcalc.htm >> that site has a decent spreadsheet calculator using the harris-benedict approach.