After reading several threads from different boards including this one there seems to be a debate over GH injection timing. This debate stems from lack of knowledge of EXACTLY how long Injected HGH suppresses Natural HGH.
It is a known fact that GH injection will suppress natural HGH production to some degree. The debate seems to hinge on how long this suppression lasts.
Some people are claiming that it will suppress your natural GH for 4-6 hours.
Others have claimed it will suppress your natural GH anywhere from 12-24 hours.Most of the research that recommends bedtime injections is aimed at the individual with a non-functioning pituitary. Children with severe growth disorders and those adults who have lost pituitary function from illness, radiation treatments, AIDS, or accidents should dose GH at bedtime so as to mimmick the natural rythyms of the healthy human endocrine system.
But those who are HRT patients and bodybuilders should not. Why? Because we retain normal GH secretions, although perhaps somewhat diminished in the older lifter. ExoGH only makes the pituitary a little "lazy" for a few hours.....it is not shut down like in testosterone supplementation. Since we produce up to 80% of our natural GH during the first 2 hours of deep sleep, why not take advantage of that and dose our exoGH at a flat time like late afternoon?
Even Genentech makes this distinction now in the instructions to physicians. They specify non-bedtime injections for HRT, bedtime for sick people. Genentech invented synthetic somatropin and holds the first FDA approval for medical use.
ok.. time to throw a monkey in the wrench.. here is an article found (courtesy of Nandi)...
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/co...ll/85/2/601#R31
"The reduction of serum 22K-hGH level after 20K-hGH administration required a period of ca. 4 h, and the level tended to recover by 24 h. However, the delay in suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH by exogenous 20K-hGH is difficult to define precisely because of the intermittent nature of hGH secretion"
basically once exogenous gh is administered, endogenous is suppressed for about 24hours.. Plus we forgot to take into consideration that IGF-1 also suppresses natural gh, so now we have (2) components working together to suppress endogenous... which therefore will keep natural gh suppressed for ~24hours...
so.. bedtime shots which is what i have testified to all along seem to be the best to do... you shoot your gh, go to sleep, get your natural peak, then the exogenous gh kicks in (takes ~4 hrs to kick in) and then gh is active for quite some time... so this way you get almost double the dosage Natural and exog in one night!!!
Others have claimed it will not start suppressing your natural GH until 4-6 hours after you inject and then continue for 12-16 hours.
NOTE: NONE OF THE THREE PREVIOUS QUOTES ARE MY OWN, THEY ARE TAKEN FROM THIS THREAD(A VERY INTERESTING READ):http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...?threadid=4157The researchers considered the impact of exogenous GH on endogenous 22K-hGH secretion during the first 6 hours after GH administration insignificant:
..."There were no significant changes in the AUC0–6 h between the 20K-hGH-treated and placebo groups..."
The greatest suppression was noticed from 6-12 hours after administration.
From 12-18 hours & 18-24 hours endogenous GH "tended to be suppressed in the 20K-hGH-treated groups, although differences were not significant compared with the placebo group."
So you still have to worry about IGF-1 negative feedback loop although GH levels would drop.....
"On the other hand, serum IGF-I levels were not increased significantly at 4 h, but were increased at 8, 12, 24 , and 36 h"
This post courtesy of RedBaron seems to answer some questions but still no definitive answers, and it conflicts with a couple of the earlier quotes from the other thread:
So what is the answer to this question?The problem we will always have with subjects such as this is that everyone's body runs just a little different. As JohnnyB mentioned, it is pretty difficult to time with precision when the liver is going to secrete IGF-1. That being the case, unless we have some definitive monitoring device to verify the timing of that release, it is going to be even more difficult to time our HGH injections using this as a criteria.
There is no question that waking up at 3-4 a.m. and giving yourself an injection has a lot of merit. I did this for about 10 months while I was using Genotropin Mini-Quick .8mg HGH. No question about it working well. The next best time to inject is first thing in the morning before you ever get dressed. These two times are going to offer the least chance of disrupting your own HGH cycle .... but as I said, everyone runs a little different so we are really making some general observations.
Realize that there are about 8-10 pulses of HGH throughout the day ... not ONLY the one at night. The thing is the chemical and hormonal conditions of the body at night are conducive to a major release of HGH. Other times you will see a MAJOR release of HGH is during short duration, HIGH intensity working out. If you have ever experienced a REALLY intense leg day workout the nauseous feeling and tiredness that follows is many times the result of a big endogenous HGH dump into your system. HGH is going to work for you for the most part whenever it is released into you system.
The reasoning behind a night-time injection would make a LOT of sense for someone with low / no natural HGH. This would most closely mimic the body's own cycle. For those of us with a normal / high natural output, night-time injections are a bit more complex issue. The thought behind the normal early morning - early afternoon injections is because these are times when your body's cortisol levels are high, and HGH can assist in minimizing its potential for catabolism. Also these are times that offer a greater likelihood of not interfering with a great number of natural pulses of endogenous HGH (though certainly no guarantee because of some of the variables discussed here).
So ..... I think about as close as anyone could come to a consensus would be to say .... If you are the type of person that routinely gets up to go to the bathroom in the early morning hours, that is a PERFECT time to take an HGH injection. If you aren't, next best is going to be the second you wake up. If you are taking two injections per day, there are a few scenarios that would make sense, such as (roughly most desirable to lesser):
injection one at 2-3 a.m. at bathroom break, number two at 8-9 a.m. upon waking
injection one at 2-3 a.m. at bathroom break, number two at 1-2 p.m.
injection one at 7-9 a.m., number two at 1-2 p.m.
If your natural HGH production is non-existant -
injection one at bedtime, injection two first thing upon waking
injection one at bedtime, injection two 1-2 p.m.
Is there one yet, or are there not enough studies?
Hopefully someone has some answers, or at least we can get some more serious discussion going regarding this issue.