Training to failure?

[ascendant]

Well, one thing I just don't get is that typically, most bb's train to failure on their sets. You'll get to those last couple where it's barely moving, but you just barely push it out.

With all the videos I've seen of the pro's though, seems like they just pump the weights a bit and stop before failure, even before they start slowing down on their reps. now, is this just because most vids of them is pre-contest where they don't want to train hard since their diets are really restricted, or is training to failure unecessary when on gear?

[crash187ct]

training to failure is necessary always IMO. its the main goal of what you want to achieve. people doing 15 reps vs people doing 6 reps, people in 6 will achieve the same as the people with 15 reps, except faster.

[helium3]

its a common misconception that you must train to failure,muscles can recover far quicker than you would expect without going into too much detail if you train to failure and i mean failure,yes you are working the muscle but you are hammering your cns(central nervous system)which can lead to overtraining,pulls and general fatigue,have you ever had the feeling that your nuckles are dragging on the floor the next day or two thats coz your cns took a beating put it this way i havent trained to failure for over a year and im growing quicker now than i ever was and i never feel like shit after a workout,im still training natural well upto this friday
im not going to push my routine on you but i train full body 3x week and my muscles just smile and come back for more,i can only imagine whats going to happen when i hit the juice.good luck hoped that helped.

[S.P.G]

training to failure is necessary always IMO. its the main goal of what you want to achieve. people doing 15 reps vs people doing 6 reps, people in 6 will achieve the same as the people with 15 reps, except faster.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...aining+failure

[crash187ct]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...aining+failure

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/007...283155&s=books

[GunTotingHipGangster]

i never train to complete failure every set
once a month i work slow twitch fibers and go to failure with around 30 reps per set, mainly on chest. ive found great results from this. once a month i will hammer out as many reps (usually 30-35) on bench, then immediatly put my feet up on the bench and do as many pushups as i can until failure, ive found this works great for increasing strength. I do 4 sets flat then 4 sets incline with pushups and i am completely taxed, and see improvements the next week

on normal working days i go to one rep before failure, that rep where youre grunting and spitting and squirming to get it up, but you do in fact get it up

[GunTotingHipGangster]

now that i jsut read what i posted, i think im going to try this for all muscle groups, realizing the gains i have seen from just doing it for chest

[S.P.G]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/007...283155&s=books

Wow….That’s a coincidence you post that as I watched Mentzer H.I.T training video just last night.

It was interesting, I’m going to incorporate some of the aspects in to my training, 4 seconds down 4 seconds up ect, ect,

[crash187ct]

i've seen nothing but good results from it.

[ward065]

i always train to failure, but.......having said that, in the 5-day-split i do, everything is trained every 8-9 days, averaging 4 workout days per week only. If i try to workout 5 days a week, taking only two days off, i find my energy decreases SUBSTANTIALLY and i cannot make progress in my lifts. This is just me however.

But yes, typically i do 2-4 sets to failure PER exercise

[ward065]

oh and another thing...after i train the targeted muscle group, it is so painful after. If i train chest, a few hours PWO my chest will contract/ spazm nasty, even if a eat a few bananas, especially when i move my arms in the wrong way. If it's back, my lats get the same thing......they squeeze together, the muscle gets all tight......same thing with quads and arms. However, for some reason this never happens to my shoulders- my shoulders almost never get sore. Everything else is a different story. I feel if i do not get that soreness after that my workout sucked- this is another reason why i train relatively infrequently

[ascendant]

s.p.g, excellent link to that thread. it's worth giving a shot. good read regardless, so thanks.

as to those of you who seem to support training to failure, none of you have managed to answer my question as to why you never see the pro's in any videos training to complete failure, and most don't even slow down much near the end of their set?

look at ronnies vids and you'll see what i mean. that guy just pumps some sets out and takes a break, but there's no "one last grunting, slow-moving, failing rep" coming out of that guy once ever in any of his vids i've ever seen.

one thing that comes to mind about not training to complete failure for me is that if you train to complete failure on almost every set, you're draining energy from your body that you could've used on your next set. trying to push past failure seems more like cns work to me rather than muscular, cause if the cns stops the muscles from moving, how much work are they really getting? seems to make more sense to save that energy for the next set where you can pump those muscles with the weight again.

i think failure sets might be good occassionally for improving strength by straining the cns, but i think for overall size, complete failure on sets isn't necessary. maybe for one or two sets per bodypart in a workout, but not much more than that. what you guys think? if someone has scientific evidence showing this is incorrect, please let me know, cause so far that seems to make the most sense to me. thanks again for all the feedback guys.

[ascendant]

s.p.g, excellent link to that thread. it's worth giving a shot. good read regardless, so thanks.

as to those of you who seem to support training to failure, none of you have managed to answer my question as to why you never see the pro's in any videos training to complete failure, and most don't even slow down much near the end of their set?

look at ronnies vids and you'll see what i mean. that guy just pumps some sets out and takes a break, but there's no "one last grunting, slow-moving, failing rep" coming out of that guy once ever in any of his vids i've ever seen.

one thing that comes to mind about not training to complete failure for me is that if you train to complete failure on almost every set, you're draining energy from your body that you could've used on your next set. trying to push past failure seems more like cns work to me rather than muscular, cause if the cns stops the muscles from moving, how much work are they really getting? seems to make more sense to save that energy for the next set where you can pump those muscles with the weight again.

i think failure sets might be good occassionally for improving strength by straining the cns, but i think for overall size, complete failure on sets isn't necessary. maybe for one or two sets per bodypart in a workout, but not much more than that. what you guys think? if someone has scientific evidence showing this is incorrect, please let me know, cause so far that seems to make the most sense to me. thanks again for all the feedback guys.

still no takers on the challenge, eh? seems like not training to failure is winning out here...

[Doc.Sust]

no u cant train to failure on every set, just your final set if hypertrophy is your goal, myself as a powerlifter, i never train to failure, but to put on size, hypertrophy is the only way to do it rt,

[ascendant]

no u cant train to failure on every set, just your final set if hypertrophy is your goal, myself as a powerlifter, i never train to failure, but to put on size, hypertrophy is the only way to do it rt,

now i would actually think the opposite would be true. by training to failure, you're pushing your cns system to it's limits, and so it would seem that kind of training would lead to greater strength increases due to neurological adaptation of the cns.

however, stopping just short of failure leaves more energy on consecutive sets to "pump" the muscles rather than exhaust the cns before doing so and leaving less energy to do so later in the workout. hence more energy to hit the muscles and more strain on them rather than your cns, hence more effective muscle hypertrophy.

i know everyone will have differing opinions on this matter, but like i said, in all the pro vids i've seen, they don't seem to be doing the "train to failure" technique, and their physiques are top of the line. how can you argue with that?

[primetime1]

i myself train to failure just about everywork out. not all sets are to failure, i have seen good results from this as my strength has gone up.
one thing i read from arnolds book was that he trained to failure + , meanin once you reach failure to have your spotter force reps. i do this often also and let me tell you im done after this. drop sets to failure are another thing i incorprate in my work outs and i feel they work well to.
i dont think it would be a good idea to go every set to failure as you wouldnt have much left for the rest of your work out.

just my .02

[yodaddy]

drop sets are the ish

[novastepp]

i feel like i am selling myself short if i dont train to failure on at least my last set. if i can lift more, than i do...

[GunTotingHipGangster]

i feel like i am selling myself short if i dont train to failure on at least my last set. if i can lift more, than i do...

agreed, i always go to failure on my last set per exercise

[tbody66]

not training to failure is like running a 100 yard dash, leading the number two sprinter by 20 yards and stopping at 95 yards and not finishing the race! Every lift you perform is designed to get you to the last rep, no point in starting if you ain't gonna finish, imo!

[Doc.Sust]

now i would actually think the opposite would be true. by training to failure, you're pushing your cns system to it's limits, and so it would seem that kind of training would lead to greater strength increases due to neurological adaptation of the cns.

however, stopping just short of failure leaves more energy on consecutive sets to "pump" the muscles rather than exhaust the cns before doing so and leaving less energy to do so later in the workout. hence more energy to hit the muscles and more strain on them rather than your cns, hence more effective muscle hypertrophy.

i know everyone will have differing opinions on this matter, but like i said, in all the pro vids i've seen, they don't seem to be doing the "train to failure" technique, and their physiques are top of the line. how can you argue with that?

you can only push the cns so far, it becomes taxing on the cns , training to failure, and this stops strength gains. trust me i have read more and tried more programs in the last 11years of competing and 15 years of training, hypertrophy traing to failure will indirectly help you gain strength but is FAR from optimal.

i do see what you are saying i have trained hypertrophy before doing 5 sets of 5 reps, not traing to failure with the core lifts, it will put on size , but to get the most bang for your buck , training to failure is best for size. both ways will put on size, onr just works better than the other.

i recomend mel siffs book named supertraing, explains alot of principles of functional and aesthetic training, also vladimir zatsiorsky's book science and practice of strength training

[ascendant]

you can only push the cns so far, it becomes taxing on the cns , training to failure, and this stops strength gains. trust me i have read more and tried more programs in the last 11years of competing and 15 years of training, hypertrophy traing to failure will indirectly help you gain strength but is FAR from optimal.

i do see what you are saying i have trained hypertrophy before doing 5 sets of 5 reps, not traing to failure with the core lifts, it will put on size , but to get the most bang for your buck , training to failure is best for size. both ways will put on size, onr just works better than the other.

i recomend mel siffs book named supertraing, explains alot of principles of functional and aesthetic training, also vladimir zatsiorsky's book science and practice of strength training

well thanks for the info, and i'll try and get that book when i get a chance. i'll keep doing my research and i guess the best way is experiment with my own routines and see what works best. maybe i will switch to what seems to be popular with many posting in here, which is just going to failure on the last set of every exercise.

[Pooks]

I train to "natural" failure.

I always lift 4 sets of 12 reps at a constant weight.
If i achieve that goal, than the next session i go up in weight.
If i fail (WORK THEM TO FAILURE) than i'll drop the weight...

after u top of on your lifts, u pretty much naturally end up lifting to failure every other week, or every 3rd week..

which i find A OK with me.

[Dally]

after training for 14 years and putting on over 120 pounds naturally....Id have attribute all of it to training to failure and beyond on every set. And beating that the next workout.

mind you, you can only do that for so long. otherwise id be benching over 1000 now.

lately ive been using fixed rep and set scheme's like german volume training. Its a pleasure doing it because its ....pretty much so easy compared to the drop sets and forced reps i always did.

bottom line is, its sparked new growth...and I never would have guessed that it would have done so.

[Doc.Sust]

well thanks for the info, and i'll try and get that book when i get a chance. i'll keep doing my research and i guess the best way is experiment with my own routines and see what works best. maybe i will switch to what seems to be popular with many posting in here, which is just going to failure on the last set of every exercise.

take a look at the programs in the sticky that pinnacleposted, you will find one you like