PGF-2a Transdermal Vs. SUB-Q

[dr_skier]

Hey Everyone,

This pretains to using PGF2 for Fat Loss only.

Can users comment on their 'cream/gel' based experience, including doses of the cream/ml, how much used, when applied, duration, diet etc.

Can users also report the same for sub-q injections (dose, duration, freq, diet etc).

Thank you all.

(also please mention other fat burners that you may have been using at the time)

[AnabolicAndre]

I'd love to make it into DMSO transdermal, cause from what I have read users report an even fat loss where sub-q injections can leave spots of fat, and not to mention the redic. diarhea.

But the shit is insanly expensive and as far as i know only TLR carries it.

[01dragonslayer]

I've cycled PGF2a transdermally on several occasions and it is effective as long as you understand how it works. Transdermally...PGF2a WILL NOT kill fat cells as opposed to the sub-q route that does. When applied transdermally the PGF2a releases fatty acids into your blood stream. You must do the rest of the work. You must increase your metabolism whether its running, biking, Xtraing, etc., so that the fatty acids are used as fuel otherwise your body will redeposit those acids elsewhere.

[dr_skier]

Thats good to know, what kind of doses did you run? and for how long? Did u apply the transdermal right before you did cardio?

[01dragonslayer]

...ran it for about 4-5wks each time. One application prior to cardio...the other after a shower.

[Ultimate]

I've cycled PGF2a transdermally on several occasions and it is effective as long as you understand how it works. Transdermally...PGF2a WILL NOT kill fat cells as opposed to the sub-q route that does. When applied transdermally the PGF2a releases fatty acids into your blood stream. You must do the rest of the work. You must increase your metabolism whether its running, biking, Xtraing, etc., so that the fatty acids are used as fuel otherwise your body will redeposit those acids elsewhere.

Do you care to comment on how does that work cause I think its wrong... the pfg2a can't have a diferent "effect" on a fat cell just because you're using a transdermal delivery method instead of an injection this sounds like the same mentality used to tell people transdermals don't work, they work even if it's somewhat more wasteful in the exacly same way as the injection works the chemical gets in your blood and it does what it needs to, and in this case it gets on the fat and does it's thing. I'm sure the pfg2a injection will have a more imediate localized effect but it can't alter what it does because you rubing it on your gut instead. the exact same chemical will have to enter the skin and make contact with the fat cell, which is the same thing it happens when you do sub Q the chemical goes and touches the fat and kills it. the pfg2a can't make you lose weight if it doesn't do it by the exacly same chemical path it does when you inject it can't change what it does because of your choice of delivery. it goes in and it kill fat cells if you think that it doesn't then by which magic can a chemical perform an effect in 2 diferent ways just because you changed how you put it in your body. It's like saying test inject+exercise+good nutrition=big muscles all around and test transdermal+exercise+good nutrition will result in you only growing muscle in your left leg even when you're exercising your whole body. Unless you somehow have data to prove otherwise.

[goose]

This is some information from a guy called jeff.....

800+ shots, 390 cc of PGF2a and 5 months later.
First things first:Here the article will be available for a certain time for the newbies just starting
or considering taking PGF2a. Here on EF the article will be gone in a day or two,
since this is a very fast moving board.

Interesting article ? Well if bodyfat is a concern, yes. For the hardcore bodybuilder who wants nothing but size, no. This is about doing something nobody did before (i think), shooting everywhere in the upperbody, so this could be a milestone.

Here are the long results:
Using 3 bottles Lutalyse from Upjohn and 60 amps of 5 cc from Sintyal (Argentinia).
The Upjohn is organic; the Sintyal syntetic (more slow acting).
390 cc for around 150 days, gives an average of 2.5 cc/day.
Started on may 22, last shot october 24.

Bad points for PG:

Too many injections
Sweating
Chills sometimes
Needing the bathroom 20 minutes after injection, sometimes a few times in an hour
Cramps in the intestine
Cramps in the stomac also
Coughing after injection
Needle phobia
Pain for 1-3 hours in the injected muscle.
Did i mention pain ?

Bad points nobody mentionned before:

Getting sentitive behind the nipples.
Nipple area SHRINKS to about 1/3 or less of the normal size.
Nipple itself enlarges, doubling in size even when injecting the arms. This means the WHOLE body is involved.
Injecting in the abs muscle or fat results in a tickness that you can feel. The abs muscle absorbs the Lutalyse, or the PG attaches to the abs muscles and you cannot do anything against it, but wait untill it goes away.
Pain in both feet when taking more then 1 ½ cc a day. This started about 1 month after the beginning. (Arthritis ?).
Drinking Coke is unpleasant about one hour after the shot, it thickels too hard.
Even drinking coffee feels too intense, unpleasant.

Good points for PG:

High blood pressure goes DOWN (the lower, dangerous one)
NO stress on liver.
NO stress on kidneys.
No need taking pills to go to the bathroom.
No Deca-dick (hehehe).
No prostate problems.
No hair loss.
No roid rage.
No water retention (not at doses of 5 cc a day).
No growing hair on your body, besides everyone wants it on the head.
Getting used to the bad sides.
Putting the 30 gauge needle in is never a problem, unless you keep injecting the same spot over and over.
Pain is diminishing.
You can draw up with a 30 gauge so you can shoot with a 31/32 if you can find it.

First 2 months only shooting in the arms and delts, mostly arms.
Third month alternating arms, delts, abs muscle. Meanwhile noticing arm size shrinking.
Fourth and fifth month injection in the fat only.

Injections took place in the lower bi’s/tri’s, mid bi’s/tri’s, higher bi’s/tri’s, brachialis, front
delts, side delts, rear delts, forearms, quads, waist every where, like abs muscle, abs fat, lower back fat, higher back fat, sides (love handles), obliques, chest under, chest behind the nipples.

No calve shooting since shooting the left quad made me walk like if i had an injury.
So calves shooting wouldn’t be any better, besides the Ranger pointed out that shooting the calves would result in walking funny.
Forearms, stopped this after 5 or 6 injections (each side). Or it was in a vein, hitting a nerve or bone. Bi’s and tri’s, stopped those because it was getting harder and harder to do. But the ½ inch i gained after 5-6 weeks did go away, so for me this was enough to stop shooting the arms. You know 1 step forward , 2 steps back, hate that.
I know of guys who didn’t gain any muscle size of it, but a lot DID gain. Maybe it depends on the doses, maybe it works more for some then for others. Remember there are guys who gain almost nothing shooting Test and others will grow like crazy. In my case maybe i should not have dropped the 11 pounds, should have waited, who knows. As Darkham states maybe you should use extra Insulin.

PG is a fat killer, that’s for sure, my chest looks better, fat under the nipple is less then before, almost gone completely. Also the lower back has lost fat, before my lower back looked good in the morning, bad in the evening, bad for me anyway. Now i am pleased with my lower back in the evening also. This should say enough. Especially since after starting with the Lutalyse my bodyweight was 198 pounds (coming off a Winny cycle) and i dropped 11 pounds to look better, more cut. Now i am at 202 pounds (still on Primobolan) and there is no need to drop weight. Dropping weight occurs only to loose bodyfat, when it feels or looks not the way it should. You look better then before the use of PG, that’s a F A C T. As for the abs, this is more difficult to say, because the six-pack isn’t showing like it should (damn). Did shoot in the abs muscle. Sometimes taking 2 cc and sticking myself in 10 different places covering the abs area. Fat was lost in the abs, just don’t know how much. If you have very much fat, well you will need a lot more then 800 shots to even see some results or you need MORE cc’s.
Got me an injury in the upmost right ab muscle. The echo in the hospital showed that my abs muscle was 0.7 inch thick (1.7 cm). I had an injury of about 0.4 inch (1 cm) around. It was a torned muscle, but why round like a circle (?). Scary. If it didn’t go away in 3 weeks an operation was needed (in the abs, thanks but no thanks). So i trained very carefully, loosing some size on the arms again, no tri’s training since this involves a lot of abs work. You notice this more when you are injured.
Convinced that the injury had nothing to do with the abs muscle injection, i kept on injecting them, but not the injured spot.
After give or take 4 weeks, i did hit the repaired muscle again, and guess what ?
7 days later, the injury was back, so no more abs muscle injection for me. Besides i am not fully recovered of this injury right now.
Shooting fat in the abs, lower back and chest (under the nipple) resulted in fat loss. After injecting the abs, a few days later the skin gets tighter, fat is going away, BUT after a week it seems that the skin gets looser again, so :

a)there is water coming in (not going away, and this would be impossible, i think)
b)the body restores to the original state. This fast, so this means mostly water disappeared and was coming back.
c)the body builds new fat cells to restore the imbalance it gets.
d)fat cells where not killed but getting smaller and recover after about a week, but if this was the case, then why good results in the back and chest ?
e)any suggestions ?

Right know, fat cells are not coming back behind the nipples, sides, back or abs. And i must stress abs are looking better, but the 600 mgr Primo/week can make a difference. Just don’t know for the moment.

The body does not fight back when your arms, delts get leaner. But where the waist is concerned, the body fights back, maybe this is just a feeling. Also shooting in the abs muscle OR fat resulted in a thickness that will stay there for about 7-12 days and then goes away. As if the abs muscle sucks up the Lutalyse INSTANTLY, and it does. I mean after shooting the abs (mostly 1 ½ cc in 3 shots) i start massaging the injected area, but cannot alter the thickness that comes right after injection. The Lutalyse attaches to the abs muscle and
won’t let go. Shooting the muscle or fat gives the same result.
When i started with PG, like anybody else with small dosages, like 4x2 shots of 0.2 cc, going up fast to 4x2x0.5 shots, arms changed impressively. Gaining ½ inch in 5-6 weeks.
They look leaner, more muscular. Max injected in bi’s or tri’s in one shot was 1 ½ cc. After stopping arms injection the ½ inch gained was lost again, as said, but they stayed very, very lean. Maybe the dosages where not high enough, but 4-5 cc’s a day was enough for me.
Odd but normally i gain 0.4 inch (1 cm) on the arms stuffing myself and gaining 7 pounds, 0.8 inch for 14 pounds. But not anymore. Now coming from 187 pounds to 202 gaines where barely 0.3 inch. This means my arms are leaned out, although i did NOT have fatty arms on the outside (please give me a break), maybe there was more on the inside. But now all fat seems to be disappeared. Gaining or loosing weight does not alter the arm size anymore, not like before. So it is hard to tell that there was no arm size gained. One doesn’t know how much fat there was lost. Let’s say you loose ¾ inch of fat, so you have to gain ¾ inch of muscle to restore the original size. For me fat was lost and muscle gained, but there was some size loss.
If you want to take more then 4-5 cc’s a day, like 10 or 15, you will only be able to do this for a few weeks. Big Brother Val is one of those extreem very heavy users and he gets great results of it.
If you come off a cycle, changes are that you still have roids in your body for about a month, so you never where really off roids, but maybe you gain and keep more, since you are keeping your body in an anabolic state for a longer period.
So i think although it can be nice (not pleasant) to bridge with PG, you will get better results taking roids and PG together. Shooting roids and a few hours later PG gets you an effect way too strong, like getting an heart attack, especially if the PG was shot in the fat, which lets the Lutalyse stampeding through your lungs, mouth, everywhere. I had this effect and this was 30 minutes after eating. It was 4 hours after a Primobolan shot. This nevers occurs if you wait 7 or more hours. That’s way i know roids like Primo work heavier a few hours after the shot. Taking roids after the PG gives no problems, best is to wait one hour, just to be sure.
When i said pain is there for between 1-3 hours. One hour is normal but injecting in the left breast from downunder up, to close to the ribcage resulted in pain for 3 hours. It was a stupid shot, not using the mirror, doing it way to fast, but after so many shots, you know...Well the pain, you could feel in the heart muscle. The heart was definitly affected. Did this only once. Shooting under the nipple is ok and did help a lot. Shots in the lower back are the easiest of them all (after all those months anyway). Shots in the sides are also easy to do. Obliques a little harder, but not that much.

Nobody mentions the nipple problem. Nipple area shrinking to 1/3 or less of the normal size and nipple itself enlarging to double size. Getting very sensitive as if gyno is coming up. But i have this already for 5 months, so i guess it will be ok. This has nothing to do with shooting under the nipple. Even injecting in the arms, and i started in the arms where else ? gave this
situation from the beginning.
Also after a month my feet began to hurt. After a month it was the right foot. First you think you did something wrong training your calves, or going on the stairstepper, you just don’t know what is happening. Then a few weeks later it’s the left foot also. I don’t know what it is, but it was getting tougher and tougher. Standing still was very difficult. So i had to reduce the cc’s taken every day. Now after stopping for 3 days, the pain is going away. It is still there but less intense.

Strange, even injecting the delts about 5 times less then the arms, they respond better. So anyone remembers the late Dan Duchaine’s words ?

“They where getting lean and muscular, but all look like monkeys because of the
huge delts.”

At that point i think the late Dan didn’t go deep enough in his study.
Why would any BB get delts like a monkey. There is not ONE BB that would shoot PG for local growth in the delts alone. Not one. So everyone is/was shooting the delts AND arms.
Why didn’t Duchaine say: they all got over-developed arms. Well in my opinion some
bodyparts react better on PG then other, react better and grow better.
I felt progress in the delts myself, for keeps, not the arms though (no size gains).

On a (pain)scale i would give PGF2a 8/10, (roids 3/10) because if it would be any harder to take, i would pass. You may not forget, this if for improving your body, not your last change for STAYING ALIVE. But the pain gets less intensive after months of shooting. In fact right now i could take this forever, one injection cycle a day, otherwise it would be getting too much. You know ....shoot, shoot , shoot

I know the Ranger gives PG 5-6 for pain, but he is a pain freak and not everyone has the same pain level he has. Besides if he gives PG 5-6 he will give roids 1-2, i am very sure of this.

Conclusions :

There are some good sides you can have using PG, but you are the only person to judge this, since you have to go through a lot of discomfort. Don’t buy too much at once, buy one bottle, try it out, then decide if you want more. And please use insulin needles. Some say shoot the PG 30 minutes after eating, for your insuline release, i disagree. Shoot the PG and be sure to eat 5-10 minutes after the shot and you definitly feel better. (I don’t say your results will be better).
I stopped after 5 months because i ran out of PG and one has to stop sometime.
Besides the bad, unknow sides that can come in the long run scare me.
Will i be on it again ? Don’t know. If the fat stays away and the lean look stays, no, because then i have all that is want. But doing it again, to be even more lean, is very tempting.
Although it seems you can gain fast size on your arms, i think you can gain this on roids alone also. Even if it takes 3 months longer, it sure is more comfortable. And why the rush ?

Jeff

[goose]

I've cycled PGF2a transdermally on several occasions and it is effective as long as you understand how it works. Transdermally...PGF2a WILL NOT kill fat cells as opposed to the sub-q route that does. When applied transdermally the PGF2a releases fatty acids into your blood stream. You must do the rest of the work. You must increase your metabolism whether its running, biking, Xtraing, etc., so that the fatty acids are used as fuel otherwise your body will redeposit those acids elsewhere.

Did you make your own? If so was it hard to produce?

[01dragonslayer]

Did you make your own? If so was it hard to produce?

Yep...very easy. Hardest part was puttin' it in the squeeze bottle.

[goose]

Yep...very easy. Hardest part was puttin' it in the squeeze bottle.

Cool...... I may PM you for that recipe

[FranKieC]

Yep...very easy. Hardest part was puttin' it in the squeeze bottle.

What were your results?

[01dragonslayer]

What were your results?

I thought my results were pretty effective. I usually apllied my TDPGF2a mix in the A.M right after showering for better absorbtion. I was pleased with the results even without incorporating ANY cardio into my exercise routine. I increased my metabolism via clen, T3, OTC fat burners and the like and I would say my BF was reduced by 2-3%.