Articles about cops and doctors on gear

[Cdub]

check my secon post on this thread

[QuieTSToRM33]

site wont open with all those damn *'s

[crash187ct]

[SnaX]

http://www.*************/readTopic.do?id=460732
http://www.*************/readTopic.do?id=459781

Hi, i don't know what im doing!

[oldman]

Just put a space or two between the name and it will show the URL at least.



~Old

[thegodfather]

at least they left out lawyers...

[Cdub]

my bad


Cops on Gear
A Roundtable Discussion
Moderated by Chris Shugart



Imagine if your job was to take down bad guys and make the world a safer place, just like your favorite superhero. You'd probably want to be pretty big and strong, right? Heck, your body alone would be a visual deterrent when dealing with baddies. Now imagine if there was a magic potion that could help you increase your super powers. You'd probably take it, right? The problem is, this magic potion is illegal to use in most places. If you use it, you're breaking the law, yet, ironically, your job is to uphold the law.

This is the dilemma faced today by many law enforcement officers who use performance enhancing drugs. Is this the ultimate example of hypocrisy? Or does this situation merely exemplify the fallacy of America's so-called war on drugs? Without passing judgement, ***** decided to talk to three steroid-using cops about this topic. The names have been changed to protect the officers.


Chris: What area of law enforcement do you guys work in?

Law Dawg: I work as a detective in the narcotics division in a major city in Alabama.

T-Cop: I'm a Sheriff's Deputy.

Officer Mongo: I work for a small city police department. My department only has maybe forty officers. I'm a canine patrol officer and SWAT team leader.

Chris: Now, a lot of people would give you shit for being cops and steroid users. What do you say to them?

Law Dawg: Only a few select, very trusted friends actually know that I cycle every now and then. Sure, I get stares at the gym and everyone knows my occupation, so the rumors fly, but it never goes further than that. When I'm asked how I got so big, I just reply, "Creatine is a wonderful thing."

T-Cop: Well, the irony of the situation isn't lost on me. It's wrong, period. There's not really any way to justify it.

Officer Mongo: First off, those people who would criticize us usually don't have to worry about fighting a 300-pound gang member "dusted up" on PCP. I do. I mean, nowadays it seems that society wants its police officers to be "social workers with a badge," but on the street where your life is on the line, it's a whole new story.

Violent criminals will sue you if you hit them with your baton; they sue if you spray them with pepper spray; they sue you if you taser them, and often times they win or the department settles, making the officer look bad. What other choices do we have but to be physically prepared to fight and fight hard! We have families, we have children, and by God I'm going home to them every night, even if I have to crush you to do it!

Chris: Is there an advantage to being "on" in law enforcement? Seems like a lot of those SWAT guys are juiced up.

Law Dawg: I don't think it gives me any real advantage at work. I believe there have been times when I was placing someone under arrest that they would have resisted with a guy with a little less size than me, but other than that my steroid use is strictly personal, not job related.

Officer Mongo: Yes, there's a definite advantage for me, without a doubt. I'm a SWAT team leader and there have been times where we'll be serving a search warrant on a violent offender who's willing to fight you before going back to prison. To know that in most cases I'm stronger than the offender gives me tremendous confidence to do the job without hesitation.

T-Cop: I've learned that as a deputy, most of the time, good people skills and common sense will settle most issues. I did, however, work in a state prison a while back and really enjoyed the advantage. In a situation like that, if you don't shut it down it can get out of hand pretty quick. If I was a SWAT guy, I'd be a juiceball, too. Those guys are really tough.

Chris: Would you say steroid use is common in law enforcement? Is there a "branch" that does more juice than other types of cops?

Officer Mongo: I don't think it's very common, but then again how many of them would talk about it? I mean, here you have three out of how many cops out there? I do know one guy who's on a different SWAT team that's a diabetic. Well, everyone knows that insulin is very anabolic and so he "tweaks" it here and there. He's very strong, but over all I don't think it's that common.

T-Cop: Well, this is all speculation on my part, but I'd say that you'd probably find more use in the higher risk units. I've seen a lot of huge state troopers, but who knows?

Law Dawg: It's not common with the guys I work with; most are out of shape really bad. I think, in my area, anyone associated with the fire department juices quite often. They have spare time to hit the weights at their stations and most of those guys are huge. The policemen in Alabama, in general, don't take care of themselves.

Chris: Now, I'm not so sure that "roid rage" exists per se, but many would say that a cop on steroids would be more likely to go off on a perp and beat him unnecessarily or even lose his temper and draw his gun. What do you say to that?

Officer Mongo: There's no truth to that at all. First, I'm not a huge believer in "roid rage." I've never had it. I do get more aggressive in the gym, but I personally would never take it out on a suspect. I'm so mentally prepared to kill anyone that tries to kill me or a citizen, that I've already planned when and in what situations I'd use deadly force. No amount of roids could change that mindset.

T-Cop: I've noticed that I do get pissed off a little faster, but in the end, I'm still the one that decides how I'm going to handle a situation. As far as "too much" force being used, I think it's so ingrained in our minds that even when I'm insanely mad it doesn't cross my mind, ya know?

Law Dawg: I can see your point, but it's never been an issue with me. I did, however, have a hard time coping with my anger when I was taking Halotestin in college. That stuff was an emotional roller coaster for me. I'd never take that on duty, especially in traffic!

I think most cops are responsible when it comes time to use force or not use force. I personally won't draw my piece on anyone unless I intend to use it. I've had to draw my .45 on six occasions since I've been in narcotics and every time I had to use it. Did steroids make me do it? No. Being an officer of the law, the situation dictates my reaction, not steroids.

Chris: How did you first get involved with roids?

Law Dawg: I started my second year in college. I played middle linebacker for a major SEC school in Mississippi. I was having trouble with my speed and trying to cover scatbacks on screens and so forth. My strength coach asked me if I'd ever done steroids and at the time I hadn't. He gave me my first cycle. I don't even know where he got them from; probably supplied by some alumni booster club. SEC alumni take their football serious!

Anyway, my first cycle was cypionate, deca, and halotestin. I improved my 40 by almost a full second and swelled to 245 pounds. I led the defense in tackles my junior year. Most of the team, especially the defense, was on steroids. It was kind of "hush hush," but it was no real secret. I did one cycle each of the three years I started. I was invited to the Houston Oilers mini camp and everybody, and I do mean everybody, was on some sort of enhancement drug. The only difference was, the team wouldn't provide them. That's when I became familiar with sources.

Officer Mongo: For me it was fairly recent. I started to compete in powerlifting meets and I wanted any advantage I could get. Couple that with the current trend with criminals, which is fight the cops, and it made it an easy decision for me. I convinced my doctor that I had a low Testosterone level and without much problem he prescribed me low doses of methyl Test. I wanted more than that, plus everyone knows that the orals aren't great for the liver, so I found a supplier.

T-Cop: A buddy of mine started juicin' and I gave him hell for it all the time. Well, a funny thing happened — he started growing like hell and didn't have any side effects when he came off. I started reading about it and decided I'd try a short cycle. It really amazed me that all the rumors I'd heard about roids just weren't true, at least if you're smart about it.

Chris: Would you guys say you're heavy users?

Law Dawg: It depends. Some of the cycles I see in the mags are lighter than what I do, but some are much, much heavier. I stick with the anabolic stuff now. I don't fool with Testosterone any longer; it makes me too big. I've always felt better doing just deca/anavar/primo depot and drugs such as that. I've maintained all my size from earlier cycles so there's no need for me to risk a "heavy" cycle anymore.

Officer Mongo: I guess you could say I'm a low-level user. My average cycle (twelve weeks) consists of 400 mgs of Test cypionate and 200 mgs of methyl Test per week. I clean up after a cycle with HCG, and that's it. I've seen very good gains. You really don't need to be on that high of a cycle to make it work. I saw gains on 200 mgs of propionate a week.

T-Cop: Hmm, my biggest fear has to be that somebody at the gym will get suspicious and make a phone call. So based on that, I try to just gain about five pounds of lean body mass per cycle. I love Winstrol. Right now I'm hitting a five-week cycle of Omnadren cut with Winnie. Basically anything that doesn't fall into the category of "too big, too fast."

Chris: Okay then, let's hear everyone's stats.

Law Dawg: I'm 6' 0", 232 pounds at 8% bodyfat.

Officer Mongo: I am 26 years old, 6'1", 275 pounds. I bench 450 and squat and deadlift around 515 each.

T-Cop: Oh, I'm gonna catch hell for this. I'm 22. Yeah, I'm a FNG (****ing new guy). I'm 5'10", 215 and 10% body fat.

Chris: Let's change perspectives now. Do cops generally care about steroid users? I mean, do they go out looking for the recreational user to bust?

Law Dawg: Not in my area. I checked the other day and we've only had one case involving anabolics in my division and it was before I became a detective. It involved a guy who got pulled over and the dogs went crazy on his car. They searched it and found about $2000 worth of steroids. But that charge was suspended. They prosecuted him on the cocaine instead. That's the only incident I found.

Now, this doesn't mean that you can flaunt it wherever you may be. By all means, be careful and very discrete. Never carry them in your vehicle or gym bag! That's inviting unnecessary risk. I can't speak for the other officers; they may make a stronger effort to catch users.

Officer Mongo: No. I've never seen anyone arrested for steroid use. Not even our narcs go after steroid users. We have way too damn many problems with the other drugs out there to worry about roids.

T-Cop: Most of the time when somebody gets busted with gear it's by accident. Whenever there's a coordinated effort, it's mostly other agencies going after a big dealer. So pretty much if you keep your gear at the house and don't beat your wife, you're safe.

Officer Mongo: Hey, Law Dawg, quick question for you. Do you know if they train dogs to sniff roids? I know it can be done, but I've never heard of anyone doing it.

Law Dawg: No, I don't think so. In the incident I mentioned, the guy had a bunch of cocaine in the car and that's what the dogs picked up on. They just happened to find the steroids first. I did have a trainer tell me that dogs can smell up to 200 times better than humans, so I'm sure they can be trained to do so. I don't like the dogs myself. Two of those bastard dogs we have bite me every time I'm around them! It makes me want to kick the shit out of them!

Chris: If I were busted with a personal amount of juice, what would happen to me?

Law Dawg: That has many factors involved. But if you didn't have a serious criminal record and it was a very small amount (has to be to be considered "personal") and you had a good attorney, probably a fine in the neighborhood of $350 with some community service possible. But what this would mean is you wouldn't want to get caught a second time. Judges won't show much mercy in the South for habitual offenders.

Officer Mongo: Well, it's a felony to be in possession of steroids without a prescription. What would happen to you? Depends on how bored the cop is. He may arrest you or he may send you off with a stern warning. Steroid use is a lot like adultery and sodomy laws (for those states that have them) They're rarely enforced as far as I've seen. But again, I don't work in L.A. either.

T-Cop: I just happen to still have my books from the academy so this is a straight quote:

"Anabolic steroids — Schedule 3 (G.S.90-91) — If a person knowingly possesses more than or equal to 100 tablets, capsules, or dosage units, the crime is a Class-I felony."

The punishment can be anywhere from 12 to 53 months. Basically, if it was a personal amount you'd be thrown in a room to stew for a bit. Then if it's the DEA or state boys, they'd come in and talk about how much time you're looking at, then about how much less it would be if you gave up your source. That's it in a nutshell. The main thing to keep in mind is the image the public has of gear. Chances are the judge feels the same way, so it's a shot in the dark as to what you'd end up serving.

Chris: Next topic — What do you think of teenagers using steroids?

Law Dawg: I'm totally opposed to it. Responsibility just doesn't exist in today's kids. Take a look around at the stunts they're pulling in this country. The sad part about it is if they want them they'll find them with the help of the Internet. There's a fine line between a user and a junkie. I think the earlier you start, the less responsibility you exhibit and you become a junkie doing heavy cycle after heavy cycle. That's the road to disaster.

Officer Mongo: Teens on roids? Bad. Very bad. They're still growing, their long bones haven't matured. Steroids are relatively safe if you're an adult who's fully grown and you use your head while on them.

T-Cop: Teenagers think it's a quick fix. They don't realize or don't care that they're still growing and that it could **** them up pretty good. It might sound wrong, but I'd probably be a little harder on a teenager to try to scare him off of steroids if I could. But you know how kids are; if they really want to do something they will.

Chris: Do you see steroids as gateway drugs? Do you think a steroid user is likely to use other non-bodybuilding illegal drugs?

Officer Mongo: Not at all. For the most part people who are on the gear are somewhat health-minded individuals and they know the other drugs could really screw them up something fierce. I think that maybe guys on roids might party a little more than your average Joe, but I'm not sure about that either because I don't party. I'm actually a straight arrow — don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, except for the occasional roid thing. I guess that could be the topic of another roundtable: "Mormons on Roids." You could bring in me and Larry Scott. (laughing)

T-Cop: For the recreational user? No, I don't think so. Maybe for a powerlifter; I guess stuff like nubain might come into the picture.

Law Dawg: The temptation is definitely there, especially for some of the younger users. Put yourself in their shoes. You go to the beach during the summer, all the chicks are checking you out, you're jacked up on the sauce so you're one of the biggest around, and then you find yourself in a crowd with a good looking babe hanging on each arm and someone passes you a joint. What do you do?

Regardless if you use other illegal drugs or not, situations will occur that may put you in a bad spot. Peer pressure doesn't end at the age of 18! For example, most of the kids I have to arrest tell me they don't do drugs but they were afraid they'd be considered "uncool" by the girls if they didn't. Damn, the things we do for women!

Chris: What recreational drugs really bother you?

Law Dawg: If I could do away with one drug that's dangerous to everyone, it would be cigarettes. I know that sounds funny because people don't think of them as drugs, but have you ever known someone that was addicted to nicotine? Other than that, today's party drugs are running wild in the South. I've arrested over a hundred kids this year alone for Ecstasy.

Officer Mongo: Meth, PCP, and Ecstasy are all drugs I really hate. I've seen so much violence and death caused by these three drugs that I don't have time to mention them in this discussion. Ecstasy is growing huge, as big as meth, and our kids are taking it. It's extremely bad for the body and mind.

T-Cop: What would I like to see wiped out? Damn near everything! Nowadays you got 15 and 16 year old kids going to raves! What the ****?! When I was that age we might drink some beer and throw rocks at stuff. It's a different world now.

Chris: What about pot?

Law Dawg: I don't think it's as dangerous as cigarettes, but it's still illegal and I'll take someone in if I find it on them. This seems to be a favorite among teenagers, too.

Officer Mongo: I don't like marijuana. I've never touched it, even in high school, and I've never done any recreational drugs, ever! I've seen people go out and drive while doped up on weed and kill other people on the road. As much as people don't want to admit it, a majority (but not all) of marijuana users are lazy, commit other crimes, and eventually fall into harder drugs.

T-Cop: I'm kinda iffy on weed. I know a lot of guys now that might smoke a little weed to mellow out or go to sleep on a cycle. In the big picture, though, I think there are things that need to be taken care of a lot sooner than pot, you know? I'd rather get twenty hits of "X" off the street than a half ounce of weed.

Chris: Back to steroids. Do you worry about failing a drug test being on juice?

Law Dawg: I don't think I'd ever have to take one, but if I had to, yes, I'd be worried.

Officer Mongo: No, most municipalities do random drug tests and I've taken them and passed. They don't check for roids.

T-Cop: Nah, they don't test for it around here. Although I did have a cholesterol test that was all ****ed up right after my last cycle.

Chris: What do you guys think of Ronnie Coleman? He was obviously on a lot of gear while he was a cop in Arlington, Texas.

Law Dawg: I think he's amazing. I look at him and say to myself, "How?" Even on drugs, and lots of them, how does a man get that big? He probably got questioned more than I ever will. But, if he did drugs that heavy for financial reasons, it obviously paid off.

Officer Mongo: Ronnie Coleman was a drug abuser. I mean, anyone who takes that much, c'mon, give me a break! It's like the difference in a weekend drinker and an alcoholic. I think, no, I know, that his department knew he was on the juice, but I'm sure they overlooked it so that they could have a celebrity on their force. Besides, he'd make one hell of a door breacher on a SWAT team!

T-Cop: He was definitely gifted. I think that you'd be crazy not to think that everybody he worked with, including the Chief of Police, knew about his steroid use.

Chris: There's an attitude that cops (among other professionals) have to be "more moral" than the average citizen. I know I used to be a public school teacher and was told not to have a beer at a restaurant because I'd be setting a bad example if a student saw me. As cops, do you run into that?

Officer Mongo: Yes, at least I do, and rightfully so, I think. We're professional law enforcers and as such we probably should conduct ourselves in a manner that doesn't discredit our profession. When I'm driving I try not to speed… well, too much anyway.

Sometimes I think it goes too far, though. One time I was on vacation and staying in a campground. Somehow the manager of the campground found out I was a cop and on the last day I was to stay there, some dude went speeding through her campground tearing the road up and everything. The manger came up to me and wanted me to do something about it and I told her politely to go call the local PD. She began to yell and scream at me and almost became violent, so I told her to "Get out of my face, you fat bitch," and she called my chief and tried to file a complaint against me, for something that she instigated while I was off duty. Man, citizens!

T-Cop: I don't know about "more moral" so to speak, but if I had to give it a name it would be "beyond reproach." You wanna' present yourself in a way that doesn't give anybody a chance to say something about you. I've also found that a lot of times a child's attitude towards law enforcement is a strong reflection of their parents attitude towards law enforcement.

Law Dawg: Kind of. It's like your previous question about being a cop and being on steroids. People talk, but you can't let it bother you. That's why I'm totally discrete about it. I don't flaunt my size, I don't help people obtain any juice, I don't advocate or suggest it to anyone and I practice only the safest manners while I'm on them. I don't consider steroids as a drug that will cause harm to anyone else besides me. So, in a way, that keeps me from feeling like a hypocrite.

Chris: So is the message here "some drugs are okay, but some aren't"? Can we really tell people that drugs are bad and will kill you, because let's face it, many won't?

Law Dawg: I see your point. I've often wondered why steroids are illegal. I think they became more dangerous when they were made illegal because now users have to resort to veterinary grade and black market drugs. Any drug can be dangerous when abused, whether legal or not, and steroids are no exception.

Officer Mongo: Of course some drugs are okay and some are not. Cough syrup is a drug and it's okay as long as it's used properly. Are most recreational drugs okay? No. They're the cause of a tremendous amount of suffering and death; they're abused way too much. No, we can't tell our kids that all people who take drugs will die, but we do need to educate ourselves and our children on the effects of drugs.

T-Cop: I know what I'm doing is wrong but I gotta' enforce the law. I think when it comes down to it, gear is right up there with weed in the "things that can wait" department. Can you honestly say roids and crack are in the same category? You ever sucked dick for roids? Didn't think so.

Chris: What changes would you guys like to see in American steroid laws?

Law Dawg: I'd like to see it easier to get a prescription for them. As long as the medical community frowns upon steroids, there'll always be laws that we have to outwit in order to use them.

T-Cop: I'm not going make any friends here, but I think they should always be under some kind of restriction. There's just too many people that would go nuts and harm themselves if they had almost unlimited access to them. Hell, I probably would.

Officer Mongo: We need doctors who are willing to educate themselves on steroids and then be able to have the authority to prescribe them to people legally. It drives me nuts that a woman who wishes to become a man can go to a plastic surgeon, get a plaster penis put on and be prescribed steroids and other androgens to become a man, but when a man wants to become a bigger, stronger man, he's screwed! The laws definitely need to be changed.

Chris: Thanks for your time and candor, guys.

[Cdub]

Docs on Gear
A Roundtable Discussion
Moderated by Chris Shugart


Sometimes I think we live in two separate realities existing within the same space. In one reality, steroids are dangerous drugs used by cheats and raging addicts who could fall over dead at any moment. This is the reality of the general public and popular media. In the other reality, steroids are amazing drugs that can battle disease, fight aging, and safely take a man beyond the genetic cards dealt him — if he's smart about their usage.

In an effort to combat the bad reputation given to steroid users (thanks in part to pro-bodybuilders and others who abuse these drugs), I've often pointed out that today's intelligent steroid user could be your next door neighbor — a cop, a lawyer, a teacher, an executive, even a professional in the field of medicine. Not all steroid users are walking stereotypes of bloated pros or ignorant teenagers popping D-bol because they want to be "all swole."

The last time I explored this "new reality" of today's steroid user, I talked to law enforcement officers. This time I sat down with three men who work in the field of medicine. Here's what they had to say.


*****: How are you involved in the medical field?

Dr. Muscle: I'm an Internal Medicine physician.

T-Doc: I'm a physician also, board certified in Internal Medicine and Emergency Medicine.

Nurse Arnold: I'm an RN at the premier medical facility in the Midwest. I've worked in many areas throughout the hospital including various surgery floors, rehab, labor and delivery, kidney units, plastic surgery etc. I work at the emergency center right now. I've pretty much been there, done that.

*****: How did you become interested in steroids?

Dr. Muscle: I was a big reader of MM2K back in its heyday, and Dan Duchaine was my first real intro to steroids. Naturally, because of my profession, I thought I'd learn more on my own since we're taught so little about steroids in school. The more I learned and the more myths that were debunked, the more interested I became in pursuing that route.

T-Doc: It really began when I was in medical school. I'd been involved with weight training since high school and continued to work out regularly. I had, of course, heard of steroids, but never actually knew anyone who'd used them (or at least admitted to using them).

During my third year of med school, one of my classmates suddenly gained a surprising amount of muscle mass in a fairly short period of time. This guy was actually pretty skinny at first and then almost overnight he was bigger than I was! I was training with the guy at times, so I knew what he was doing exercise wise and it was nothing out of the ordinary. I also knew from being around him that he wasn't all that committed to following a strict diet.

So I began to pester him about what was going on. After a while, he told me about his steroid use. I didn't really start using steroids at that time, but the idea stayed with me. I continued to read and study about steroids and eventually decided to give them a try myself.


*****: How about you, Nurse Arnie?

Nurse Arnold: I'd always trained with weights from age 13, bought one of those Charles Atlas kits and that was my introduction. Steroids came much, much later, 20 years after I began training. Even though I had a decent build, it intrigued me what it would be like to have the Superhuman, comic book physique.

*****: What's a typical cycle like for you? How many cycles do you do per year?

Dr. Muscle: I'm not interested in getting "too big," whatever that means. I also can't make drastic physique changes unless I want somebody knocking on my door questioning me. My first cycle was an eight weeker with half a gram of Test alone. I kept about ten pounds of LBM [lean body mass] at the end of that.

I've added a few things to later cycles like tren and winny, but I tend to stay away from stacking lots of things at once. I'd run about two to three cycles a year in the past, but haven't touched a thing in over a year. It's mostly paranoia on my part and the legal issues right now. I really thank you guys at *****/Biotest for MAG-10. No worries about the legal status and it works, albeit a bit more slowly than a decent sized stack of roids.

T-Doc: In the past I've generally done two cycles yearly. They generally were eight week cycles. In addition, I've utilized Bill Roberts' "two on/four off" cycle plan for periods of time as well. For the most part, I've used either a Testosterone based cycle (for example, Testosterone enanthate at 750mg to one gram weekly), or a combination of trenbolone along with oral Winstrol or Dianabol (or both).


*****: Do you feel you're compromising your health in any way by using steroids? What precautions do you take?

Nurse Arnold: I minimize the health risks with frequent lab checks to assess hepatic and lipid function. I don't stay on a cycle forever and I don't overtax my liver for the sake of any one cycle.


*****: Any health problems, Dr. Muscle?

Dr. Muscle: Not at all. In fact, I think I'm probably healthier than 95% of people out there. I pay attention to my diet. I train with weights and do some moderate cardio. My cholesterol level is great and my liver's just fine.

It amazes me that people who eat at McDonald's three or four times a week are going to tell me that I'm unhealthy because I use substances that I've learned about and understand fairly well. I guess they think a bacon cheeseburger's much better for you than a little Test!

As far as precautions go, I use ancillaries in the same manner that most people do. Anybody can find out the proper way to do this from the guys on the ***** steroid forum. I also run some basic blood work before, during, and after a cycle just to monitor things. It's usually my experience that liver enzymes will go up during the cycle and trend back down to normal after. This isn't an indicator of permanent damage, just a little stress. The biggest precaution I use is common sense.

T-Doc: This is a tough question. In terms of risk, I must say that I do feel that steroid use has certain inherent health risks, but so does most of our life activities. There's certainly health risks involved with smoking, eating burgers, driving a car, riding a bicycle, rock climbing, and so on. There's no way to eliminate all risk, but I do believe that risk can be minimized in most cases.

For example, when I drive a car, I try to stay alert, drive defensively, don't drive excessively fast, and so on. When I ride a bicycle on the street, I wear a helmet, use reflectors, and watch for cars. When I use steroids, I limit my use to short, planned cycles, with plenty of off time between cycles. I monitor my liver functions, lipid profile, and blood pressure. I also use anti-estrogen agents with any aromatizing steroids. With these precautions, I feel that the risk is acceptable.


*****: Fair enough, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute here. "You guys are just as bad as doctors and nurses who smoke! What the hell are you thinking?" How do you respond when someone comes at you with that attitude?

T-Doc: I'd be quite happy if that question was as bad as it got! In reality, most of the population (both medical and non-medical) would say that steroid using doctors are far worse than doctors who smoke. Surprisingly, a large number of doctors do smoke, and it's often the specialties that you'd least suspect (cardiologists, for example) who seem to be the main offenders. They're accepted. I hardly ever hear anyone say anything about their smoking, even when they adamantly advise their patients to stop smoking.

On the other hand, if I were open about my steroid use, I certainly would be open to much more criticism (and even licensing sanctions). Personally, I don't feel that my steroid use is as bad as smoking. I'd argue that there's not a lot of evidence that short, well-planned cycles with the proper precautions have anywhere near the health risks of smoking.

Also, for the steroids to work well, you must generally follow some pretty healthy lifestyle habits. For example, I exercise regularly, watch my diet, control my bodyfat levels, don't drink excessively, and don't smoke. It's relatively uncommon to see a smoker who does all of these things.

Dr. Muscle: Well, first of all, I don't tell anybody about my use. It's none of their business and would put me in danger. If the situation did occur, I'd tell them that those are two totally different situations. There's no benefit at all to smoking. It's a feel-good activity that causes a multitude of health problems down the road if used on a chronic basis. That could also be true of steroids if you don't educate yourself before actually using them. If you're well informed and stay on top of your health, there's no reason why you should have any long-term consequences from a few cycles a year.


*****: Okay, so why do others in the medical field demonize steroids and make them sound worse than crack?

Nurse Arnold: Because my co-workers are idiots! Most of them were educated twenty or thirty years ago when demonization was in full swing. I think people are afraid of what they don't understand.

Dr. Muscle: Agreed. It's just plain ignorance. Combine that with anecdotal horror stories, which may or may not be true, and you get misinformed doctors. Yes, it happens to us. Readers would be utterly shocked to know how little we learned about steroids in medical school. It was literally about twenty minutes' worth of a lecture and filled with the same ignorant garbage you hear doctors spew. I guess PhD's in pharmacology aren't much more informed.

T-Doc: Most doctors have never had any direct exposure to either crack cocaine users or to steroid users. They really don't know a lot about either. This is understandable as there's really no practical use for such knowledge in most doctors' practices. What they do "know" about steroids is what they've seen in the popular media, and this has been propagandized to such a degree that it's almost laughable.


*****: If a man can surgically become a woman, then be given hormones to grow breasts, why can't a man be allowed to legally enhance his muscle mass with hormones? Most of us at ***** would like to see doctors able to prescribe steroids at safe bodybuilding dosages. Health issues would be taken care of and the black market will dry up significantly. Will this ever happen in your opinion?

Dr. Muscle: I agree with you guys, but I doubt it will ever happen in our lifetime. There's just this stigma associated with it that people can't seem to get past. If you even mention the word "steroid" you get a knee-jerk negative reaction. These are the same people that read medical journals nearly every day and stay up to date on the latest drugs, treatments courses, and other therapies for their patients. It's amazing how they can stay in the dark about this one subject because they're not willing to learn. I think that's the main problem. If they applied themselves to truly learning about AAS, we'd see a different situation.

T-Doc: Also, if a woman wants to enhance her breast size for simply cosmetic reasons, a plastic surgeon can perform a surgical procedure (which does have significant health risks) to accomplish this. The male patient who wants a larger chest can also have pectoral implants, but he can't legally be given bodybuilding doses of steroids to help increase muscle size!

I don't believe this will change in the near future. There simply aren't enough doctors or patients lobbying for this, and as long as steroids remain Class III controlled substances, very few doctors will want to deal with the hassle of steroid prescription.

Nurse Arnold: It won't happen because the results would be horrific, what with all these foaming-at-the-mouth, modern day chemistry experiments going on. Prescribing steroids, even for legitimate HRT, makes doctors as antsy as a cat on a hot tin roof.

But you make a good point about those seeking gender re-assignment and the like. "We can and will help you go to extreme physical reconstruction, on top of which we'll bombard your body with more female hormones than can be found at any metropolitan nightclub on a Saturday night. We'll do all this and more, but you just ain't getting' no steer-oids!"

*****: HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) seems to be a good first step.

Dr. Muscle: In my opinion, it has the possibility to be a gateway to supraphysiologic doses for muscle-building purposes. Whether it evolves into that is another question. I really like HRT and like patients' reactions to it. Guys feel great on it and feel much younger.

T-Doc: Yes, it's a good first step. What it can accomplish, for example, is to gain a wider acceptance of the use of Testosterone. Currently, Testosterone has been demonized in the popular press and is blamed for almost everything that's wrong with the world. Perhaps if Testosterone HRT becomes more common, this misperception will fade.

Nurse Arnold: Yes, it's a good way to help chip away at the mindset so that the very word "steroid" becomes less heinous.


*****: True, but I've even heard Androgel users condemn steroids! I really think the general public doesn't realize that HRT involves the administration of an "evil" steroid! Anyway, as medical professionals who use steroids, you obviously think they aren't evil, but let's not trivialize the dangers. Where are most steroids users screwing up when it comes to their health? What are they doing wrong?

Dr. Muscle: Anything you can think of, people are probably doing: never-ending cycles, multiple orals for long periods of time, no ancillaries…. In general, it's people who have no idea what they're doing before they start. A lot of people want a quick fix without doing any legwork of their own.

T-Doc: What are they doing wrong? The main thing is that they start using the drugs without an adequate knowledge base. Go to any of the bodybuilding boards and you'll see individuals posting questions that make it clear they have next to no steroid knowledge, and yet they've already started a cycle. Obtaining this knowledge base can be difficult, but information is much more accessible now than when I started.

The problem is that misinformation is more accessible as well. Sorting things out can take quite a while for the individual without a strong medical or science background, but I can't imagine starting a course of self-administration without knowing as much as possible about the risks involved.

As far as the common mistakes, they include using excessively long cycles, not taking anti-estrogen precautions, using unclean or poorly made drugs, and not utilizing proper sterile injection technique.

Nurse Arnold: Most steroid users I see would rather leap right in with minimal education or trust their dealer to set up their cycle and all sorts of nonsense. It's like the blind leading the dumb.


*****: Do you have any personal guidelines as to when or if a person should try steroids?

Dr. Muscle: This is up to the individual, but I think you have to have a few years of training under your belt no matter what age you start. Also, there's no reason in the world anyone under the age of 21 should touch them. There's just no need when your body's ready to grow anyway.

As for giving an actual age, that's hard because some people are more mature physically than others even into their early 20's. A 23 year old, physically mature individual with five years of training under his belt is more ready than a 24 year old in his first or second year of training. I don't think I can stress enough that people need to see what they can do naturally with their diet, training, and supplementation before they even consider steroids.

T-Doc: The main guideline is that they learn as much about the drugs as possible, including the risks, and are able to make an intelligent and informed decision if they want to accept those risks. I also would suggest they wait until they've finished growing and have a good base of natural training, perhaps reaching or at least approaching their natural genetic limitations.

Nurse Arnold: I think a person should be a minimum of 27 years of age. By then this person should have accrued a good 15 years under the iron and be at his "genetic ceiling."


*****: Just out of curiosity, do your co-workers suspect anything?

Dr. Muscle: I doubt it, but I could be wrong. People around me know I like to train and keep in shape, but I'm not a really big guy. I started out rail thin like a lot of guys, so although I've put on a lot of muscle over the years, I'm not what most would consider "big." It's even harder to tell when I have a shirt and tie and sometimes a lab coat on as well.

Nurse Arnold: My co-workers knew me before I started steroids and I was fairly large and muscular by then, so if you combine that with the blousy nature of our scrubs and lab coats...well, let's say only the people who know what to look for see the difference.


*****: Anyone suspect you, T-Doc?

T-Doc: Yes. Many of my co-workers do indeed think that I'm using steroids. When asked directly however, I simply tell them of the many nutritional supplements that I use and the training program I follow, all of which is true.


*****: What are your stats, by the way?

T-Doc: 5' 10" (almost), 235 pounds at 9% bodyfat currently.

Dr. Muscle: 5'10", 185 pounds. Body fat varies, but usually in the to 8-10% range.

Nurse Arnold: 6'1", 225 pounds. Body fat is about 7% right now. My wife hates it when it gets lower than that.


*****: As medical professionals, you're surrounded by drugs, some of which may be used for bodybuilding purposes. Ever take a few "samples"?

Dr. Muscle: No, and that's also because I tend to stay away from situations that would have the potential to compromise myself professionally. It's not at all an ethical problem, but I don't want to get caught with my hand in the cookie jar, if you know what I mean.

T-Doc: I certainly have taken samples of various medications (which isn't in any way illegal), but almost none of them are used for bodybuilding purposes, aside from the occasional non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agent for muscle soreness. Many of the drugs bodybuilders use aren't even available from pharmacies in this country, and of the ones that are, there are no drug companies sampling them. You simply don't see samples of Testosterone enanthate sitting around.

Nurse Arnold: Arimidex is always around, and being so expensive, added to the fact that no one would suspect anything with that drug, well, there is temptation.


*****: What happens if a guy tells his doctor about his steroid use? Should he even do that?

Nurse Arnold: If he tells his doctor he'll get shot down, followed by a lecture filled with erroneous information and maybe even a visit from the substance abuse people. That's what I've seen.

Dr. Muscle: He can tell me without any worries, and it's actually happened in the past. Everything that's told to me is confidential. What I can legally do is run some basic blood work and help the guy educate himself so that he takes as little risk as possible. I cannot and will not do anything illegal professionally, regardless of my opinions about steroids.

T-Doc: I certainly believe that a steroid user should be able to talk to his doctor. Patients tell me about their use of crack cocaine and other street drugs all the time and I still treat them to the best of my ability. Hopefully, the steroid user would have a doctor who could accept his steroid use (but not necessarily condone it), and continue to treat him impartially.

As to what would happen, it would depend on the doctor. In most cases, if not all, they could expect to be advised that they should quit. In many cases, they may be treated to a lecture on the evils of steroids. This may include some significant misinformation, depending on the physician.

An entirely separate question is whether or not a steroid user should tell his physician. This depends on the situation. If I cut my hand and presented to my local emergency department for sutures, I wouldn't volunteer information about my past steroid use. On the other hand, I probably would tell my regular physician, who might be managing some chronic health condition I might have or be in charge of monitoring my general health.


*****: What are the biggest health myths you hear about moderate steroid use?

T-Doc: All steroids will kill your liver and kidneys, steroids cause cancer, any steroid use will make you impotent, steroid rage is a major problem etc. All myths.

Nurse Arnold: They'll sterilize you for life. They'll make your penis extraordinarily small. All that new muscle will put an unbearable strain on the cardiovascular system and will "turn to fat." That one leaves the world's finest physicists scratching their heads! And of course I've had a doctor tell me that my high protein diet would kill my kidneys.

Dr. Muscle: It's basically the same myths you hear perpetuated on the Internet. Roid rage is the biggest one. I've never seen it before. If you're an asshole to begin with, you'll be an asshole on 'roids. Exploding livers, brain tumors, permanent testicular atrophy, penis shrinkage… . All things I've heard about and all things I've never seen or experienced.

Lyle Alzado did us a great disservice by attributing his brain tumor to his steroid use. The fact of the matter is that people get brain tumors. People like to blame something for things that occur without reason. It's a sad case and I think he was genuine in his concern, but misguided and incorrect. All that story did was serve to put a huge negative story out there about steroids.


*****: Thanks for the no BS interview, guys. It's been enlightening.

[the_rebirth]

nice read

[Hunter]

Awsome read

[rbehniwal]

Very interesting. Thanks.

[Cdub]

It amazes me that people who eat at McDonald's three or four times a week are going to tell me that I'm unhealthy because I use substances that I've learned about and understand fairly well. I guess they think a bacon cheeseburger's much better for you than a little Test!

Very funny.

[mwolffey]

interesting

[novicenovicen]

thankyou for the post

[much2evil]

Good reading.