HELP! 24yrs old, TOTAL TEST= 84mg!!!!

[liftin4life]

I made a post about this earlier but it turns out the test results were wrong b/c they ran a different test. Anyway...now they're back and my TOTAL TEST is 84mg! They said it should be 350-1020 range!!!

I did a cycle that ended Jan 1. Everything was better than normal in regards to sex drive...etc...8 weeks later. So MARCH, APRIL, MAY....super sex drive...kept all gains..everything was great. JUNE, JULY, AUGUST....ZERO SEX DRIVE. I went to the doctor and he ran the test. Also....WTF is wrong with me? The doc and I BOTH agreed the first day he saw me that once you return to homeostasis, your sex drive should NOT just disappear.

I spoke to the nurse today and she said they want to start me on Androgel for 4 weeks and then check my levels 2 weeks after that. That sounds like TOTAL BULLSHIT. What about HCG??? Won't Androgel shut me down? I'm meeting with the Doc on Sunday to discuss my options.

PLEASE HELP...any info would be helpful. I"M REALLY UPSET about this!!!

[Beefyman]

Holy shit.... dude im so sorry i hope you nuts kick back in

[davidboy]

did you do any pct, if you did can break it down

[davidboy]

oh yah forgot ask you, can you tell us your stats,

[liftin4life]

Haha...don't laugh at my stats. I trained for endurance for awhile...and am now just leaning out some on low cals. Please don't critique my stats...my concern right now is getting my test NORMAL...I'm afraid I'll be on HRT forever with this level...and probably will.

24 yrs old.
7 yrs lifting.
height.5' 6 1/2
weight: 138
BF~around 6 and dropping)
waist: 26 3/4"
arms: 14"
calves: 14"
chest: 41"
wrist 6 1/4"
forearms: 12 1/2"
Quads: 22"
neck: 16"

Last PCT was:
Clomid 100mg/day (3 wks)
Nolva 40mg/day 2wks, 20mg/day 2 wks
Red Kat (tongkat ali)...full dose...4 weeks.

Everything was normal within 6-8 weeks of the end of the cycle of
400 test enth (12wks)
300 deca (12wks

Ended early January 2006...everything was FINE by the end of Feb and remained fine MARCH, APRIL, MAY...sex 3x a day..no problem.....no loss of gains...no loss of strength other than (under 5% loss from dieting). SEX DRIVE WAS BEYOND NORMAL.....then JUNE/JULY/AUGUST.....no sex drive AT ALL.

**I did research and I'm thinking about telling the doc when I see him Sunday that I'd rather have Test Enth or Test Cyp as opposed to the Androgel. I think maybe my test has always been low as everytime I bulk (CLEAN) I gain fat and usually when I diet (CLEAN), I lose a lot of mass. This would explain a lot of what's going on. I'm amazed I've made any progress at all with these levels.

[liftin4life]

Any more info??? Should I suggest Test Enth to the Doc?

[AnabolicBoy1981]

A. Any injuries to your balls? Have you had any edema of testicles, soreness.(testicular torsion).
B. How is your ball size?
C. What supps have you been on. Anything hormonal, even DHEA can shut you down.
D. taking multi vita?
E. How low are your cals? Especially fats. dont cut your fats down too much. you make test from that stuff.

Get some L-dex from AAR and do that for a month.

This is really weird.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

did you mean 84 ng(nanograms)?

84mg a week would be fine.

[liftin4life]

A. Any injuries to your balls? Have you had any edema of testicles, soreness.(testicular torsion).
B. How is your ball size?
C. What supps have you been on. Anything hormonal, even DHEA can shut you down.
D. taking multi vita?
E. How low are your cals? Especially fats. dont cut your fats down too much. you make test from that stuff.

Get some L-dex from AAR and do that for a month.

This is really weird.

Noooo....not 84mg/week. 84mg TOTAL TESTOSTERONE was found in my blood test.

Never had any injuries
Taking only natural stuff that doesn't affect HPTA, prostate, testes...(worked at GNC for 4 yrs...I know I'm fine w/supps)
Yes...multi's fish oils, ALA, Vit E....everything you can think of other than Trib/Tongkat/DHEA or anything hormone related.

Cals are at 1450 but that's more than 10cal/lb of lean mass so I'm at the lower end of cutting. Still...should be fine. I was on a 60/30/10)carb/pro/fat) diet for awhile but for 3 wks have been on a CKD diet....no change though. Dietary changes have had no effect on sex drive...AT ALL. Fats currently are very high (mono/poly....LOW saturated)....for the CKD...but under 30% is saturated.

Anyway...yes it IS very weird. I'm thinking I've just had low test my whole life and didn't know. Every time I bulk I put on more fat even when eating clean cals....and every time I cut I've lost serious mass when trying to lose fat. I'm thinking this is a LIFE long condition I just never knew about.

I'm going back to the doctor Sunday to talk about it...but with 84mg TOTAL TESTOSTERONE....I have to just have a chronic condition. I don't even think HCG could save me now.

[liftin4life]

Maybe I did mean nanograms. Either way...they said the TOTAL test was 84.

[thegodfather]

Noooo....not 84mg/week. 84mg TOTAL TESTOSTERONE was found in my blood test.

Never had any injuries
Taking only natural stuff that doesn't affect HPTA, prostate, testes...(worked at GNC for 4 yrs...I know I'm fine w/supps)
Yes...multi's fish oils, ALA, Vit E....everything you can think of other than Trib/Tongkat/DHEA or anything hormone related.

Cals are at 1450 but that's more than 10cal/lb of lean mass so I'm at the lower end of cutting. Still...should be fine. I was on a 60/30/10)carb/pro/fat) diet for awhile but for 3 wks have been on a CKD diet....no change though. Dietary changes have had no effect on sex drive...AT ALL. Fats currently are very high (mono/poly....LOW saturated)....for the CKD...but under 30% is saturated.

Anyway...yes it IS very weird. I'm thinking I've just had low test my whole life and didn't know. Every time I bulk I put on more fat even when eating clean cals....and every time I cut I've lost serious mass when trying to lose fat. I'm thinking this is a LIFE long condition I just never knew about.

I'm going back to the doctor Sunday to talk about it...but with 84mg TOTAL TESTOSTERONE....I have to just have a chronic condition. I don't even think HCG could save me now.

If this was a condition you had your entire life you would not have had a sex drive your entire life. It does not make sense to have a perfectly functioning sex drive and for it to suddenly shut off. I think you need to examine what kind of outside influences may be causing this. Also, please find out the specifics on your blood test and get them to fax you the copy of the bloodwork. No offense, but this case is the perfect example of why to get bloodwork done pre-cycle.

Also, before resorting to HRT at 24 years old I think you should go on some seriously heavy doses of Trib, Tongkat Ali, and maybe even run a heavy PCT with Nolvadex, HCG, &Aromasin. I would make every natural attempt to normalize your HPTA before resorting to a final step like that. Also, I believe that somewhat low does of exogenous Testosterone can in fact boost endogenous production, this may be what your doctor wants to try with the Androgel..

[mranak]

Get a free testosterone test done.

HRT may be in your future. Might want to check out this HRT forum.

[liftin4life]

If this was a condition you had your entire life you would not have had a sex drive your entire life. It does not make sense to have a perfectly functioning sex drive and for it to suddenly shut off. I think you need to examine what kind of outside influences may be causing this. Also, please find out the specifics on your blood test and get them to fax you the copy of the bloodwork. No offense, but this case is the perfect example of why to get bloodwork done pre-cycle.

Also, before resorting to HRT at 24 years old I think you should go on some seriously heavy doses of Trib, Tongkat Ali, and maybe even run a heavy PCT with Nolvadex, HCG, &Aromasin. I would make every natural attempt to normalize your HPTA before resorting to a final step like that. Also, I believe that somewhat low does of exogenous Testosterone can in fact boost endogenous production, this may be what your doctor wants to try with the Androgel..

Well my sex drive has gone on and off for awhile (couple years). But this is the lowest it has ever been...zero. I agree that I should have had work done before but then again....the doc and I can't make sense of why it was back to normal and beyond for 3+ months....THEN disappeared. I may suggest HCG to him when I go there...and we'll see what he says.

I already tried high doses of Tribulus and Tongkat Ali as the sex drive was beginning to lower...it made NO DIFFERENCE....at all. Stacked with ZMA....no results.

Okay, so maybe the androgel can do that. I saw that the serum levels are lower with the Androgel than with Test Enth or Cyp injections however they are much more stable. I guess I can discuss my options with him on Sunday. I'm very concerned though. Yeah...I'll get a copy of the test.

[liftin4life]

Get a free testosterone test done.

HRT may be in your future. Might want to check out this HRT forum.

They were supposed to test Total, Free, and SHBG but they only tested TOTAL. Grrr...either way...with a total of 84, Free levels are crap obviously.

[ftony]

i wonder if he may order a cat scan on your pituitary gland ....sorry to hear this bro good luck hope you get well soon.

[doublefister]

how many cycles have you done in your life? did you go to an endocrinologist?

[mattp10]

Hey liftin 4 life, dnt worry about this. Im 17, yes....17, and my pituitary failed due to a cycle done tooo young, HOWEVER ive had mood swings my whole life, even as young as like 13, up and down sex drive, depresiion on and off, so i think i had the same thing ur talking about where its up and down. Ive been on HRT for 2 weeks now (3 injects so far) and the only bad part is im on CYP and it hasnt kicked in yet (im desperate)

[liftin4life]

i wonder if he may order a cat scan on your pituitary gland ....sorry to hear this bro good luck hope you get well soon.

Yeah, he might. From all that I can tell, this seems to have been a life long issue I never knew about. Once the body returns to homeostasis following a cycle of exogenous testosterone (steroids/prohormones) it does not break out of homeostasis unless tampered with by another phase of external hormonal input. That was not the case so there was an underlying problem BEFORE I took hormones. That's my conclusion anyway. The doctor said: "I agree with you 100%...this makes no sense".

[liftin4life]

how many cycles have you done in your life? did you go to an endocrinologist?

1 cycle and 3 cycles of prohormones over a 3 year period (always took what the bottle said...nothing more..and always PCT...always kept gains). As you can see...the "real" cycle was extremely mild (posted above). Kept all gains from that and returned to normal like with the others.

No, I went to an urgent care just to speak with a doctor...I wasn't even planning on having tests run. However, he thought it was a good idea. Luckily the doctor they had working that day is a gynecologist so he's very familiar with hormonal systems. I'm going back to speak with him.

[marcus300]

What age did you start using AAS??

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

I dont know bro...I feel your pain but the thing that jumped out at me was the cals youre takiing...1450!!! Is that what you are currently eating? Have you been eating this low for the lasr 2-3 months? Generally, going south of 2000 cals is never a good idea, mostly because to get enough protein, you are virtually cutting out most carbs and fats...

Your body could be going into survival mode, where all the cals go to maintain your mass and essential boduly functions, causing stuff like sex drive to plummet because your body doesn't put it up there on the priority list...its not like you're gonna die from sex deprivation...

I agree with AnabolicBoy, Up your cals for a while, eat stuff with saturated fats and cholesterol (steak, seafood, egg yolk) and fuel your body with carbs...forget about maintaining your definition, your health comes first....try it and see if your body starts to respond.....My sex drive always goes during the last 3 wks of cutting (even at 2700 cals) but comes back the moment I do PCT, up my cals and stays that way off cycle till my next one.

I may be over simplifying it but I genuinely want to help a fellow bro out!

cheers

[zaggahamma]

i wonder if he may order a cat scan on your pituitary gland ....sorry to hear this bro good luck hope you get well soon.

mri of pituitary and prostate blood work/rectal exam normal procedure b4 starting exo test

[liftin4life]

What age did you start using AAS??

I took some mild prohormones shortly after age 21...never more than the bottle said...short cycles only..with PCT. Before that...nothing. Real AAS...did one cycle Oct/Nov/Dec 05.

[mranak]

They were supposed to test Total, Free, and SHBG but they only tested TOTAL. Grrr...either way...with a total of 84, Free levels are crap obviously.

The total testosterone test is often inaccurate.

Free testosterone sometimes just takes longer to get back.

[vitor]

I would seriously considder HRT, if the test you took was accurat. Being low on Test have very damaging affects not only on training, but on sex-drive, overall feeling of well being, and then comes the depression and demons.

IMO HRT is a greate way to improve all aspects of live for men who doesnt produce enough natrually.

[DHew]

Just curious...you are 138lbs after 1 AAS cycle and 3 prohormone cycles, and you claim to have kept ALL of your gains, so what did you weigh before all of this??

[AllGearedUp]

Hey liftin 4 life, dnt worry about this. Im 17, yes....17, and my pituitary failed due to a cycle done tooo young, HOWEVER ive had mood swings my whole life, even as young as like 13, up and down sex drive, depresiion on and off, so i think i had the same thing ur talking about where its up and down. Ive been on HRT for 2 weeks now (3 injects so far) and the only bad part is im on CYP and it hasnt kicked in yet (im desperate)

YOur not even old enough to be on this board. You should be out bangin everything that walks. Why the hell are you talking roids at your age?

[mattp10]

YOur not even old enough to be on this board. You should be out bangin everything that walks. Why the hell are you talking roids at your age?

I had a failing pituitary in case you didnt read the post. im not just taking "roids" ive had the condition for 7 months now.

[auslifta]

I had a failing pituitary in case you didnt read the post. im not just taking "roids" ive had the condition for 7 months now.

[AllGearedUp]

Well your still under age, and you deserve what happened for playing with fire so young. Im not trying to be mean, but its kids like you that give this stuff a bad rap. I would hope that a vet or mod bans your ass.

[*Narkissos*]

I had a failing pituitary in case you didnt read the post. im not just taking "roids" ive had the condition for 7 months now.

No...this is what i read:

Hey liftin 4 life, dnt worry about this. Im 17, yes....17, and my pituitary failed due to a cycle done tooo young,

17.. you won't be around here much longer.

Narkissos

[mattp10]

thanks all 3 of you so much, especially a moderator saying that. I came here because k was so depressed and desperate for answers, then tried to be supportive for liftin4life. this is what i got instead

[liftin4life]

As far as keeping gains from cycles....I have...UNTIL I cut down. Even months at a time with less than 3-5% loss in strength and maintaining size. I'm thinking this may have been the problem all along. When I drop off cals, I've lost too much size. When I've upped cals, I've gained too much fat...even when eating clean. Based on all the reading I've done and talking to various people who are extremely knowledgable on test levels....I'm almost certain this has been a life-long condition and that HRT (at these levels) is pretty much inevitable.

[Elexecution]

This will show teenagers some of the things that probably will happen to you if you fu** around with steroids at a young age. I hope there are some teens on here that are reading this thread

(Not saying you did use roids as a teen, liftin4life, but just letting our younger viewers out there know what can possibly happen if you roid too young.)

[liftin4life]

Yeah....it's dangerous to do that. I, however, did NOT do that. I researched prohormones for 4 years before I even touched them. When I did, I stuck to label indications and did proper PCT. As you can see by the one real cycle I did, it was extremely mild. In my case I think something is wrong and HAS been wrong with my pituitary. But yeah...there are way too many kids on here doing AAS before 21...and even worse...before 18. You should really wait til you reach your genetic potential or have exhausted all other options. Not that I hit my potential by any means...but you SHOULD do that.

[liftin4life]

So I went back and spoke with him about my results.

Test=84ng/dl
SHBG=25

He said this is very strange for a 24 yr old male with no injury to my head or testes and that...yes...he could give me something to help my libido but that there is obviously something seriously wrong here and that more testing needs to be done to figure this out.

So he took 2 more blood samples and is testing: LH, FSH, and TSH to see where we stand. He is then going to refer me to a Urologist specializing in HRT/TRT.

So...I'm still concerned...I'll know my results in 2 days for the bloodwork.

[liftin4life]

So they tested more levels and here it is:

Total test: 84
SHBG: 25
(didn't have reports in front of me..gotta pick them up but here are the results....)
TSH: normal
LH: normal
FSH: (very low)

Prolactin: (running test today)
E2: (running test today)

I've been referred to a Urologist who is very experienced with issues similar to mine. I have an appt. Wednesday. So...hopefully I can find some solutions.

Due to the fact my LH levels are normal, the Dr. said HCG wouldn't do much for me in this case and TRT is probably the only option. He said possibly clomid therapy but chances are that I'm going to be on TRT. He said he didn't want to sugarcoat anything and that my ability to have children later is uncertain.