Deca and Finasteride

[MACHI]

Ok everyone has this basic idea of deca and finasteride being a big no no together but I really can't find the basis of this reasoning and I'm looking to you mods and vets for some help here....

So nandrolone decanoate is reduced by 5AR to make Dihydronandrolone (nor-DHT) which is supposedly less androgenic than nandrolone. This is one of the common reasons why Deca is considered to be a very mild steroid. However, I've been searching and I can't find any studies comparing the androgenicity (in relation to aggravating hair loss) of nandrolone decanoate to regular testosterone. If a person is taking a traditional cycle of test and deca and avoiding finasteride because of its inhibition of nandrolone conversion to the less androgenic metabolite - How important is that avoidance in relation to allowing testosterone to convert by 5AR to DHT?

In other words, whats more harmful to hair follicles....nandrolone decanoate or DHT? Only a small percentage of the circulating nandrolone will convert via 5AR anyway so whats the point in NOT taking finasteride when you have very high doses of test in your system? - (this test will be converted to one of the MOST potent androgens anyway) Why not allow marginally higher nandrolone levels while pretty much preventing any DHT production?

If you guys could shed some light on this for me I'd appreciate it...

Thanks for you time.

[DSM4Life]

i am taking deca/test and dust together. I take only 1mg per day. Little under what is the normal dosage.

[MACHI]

....bump

[castertroy]

i would also like to know this. i know finasteride wont do anything for deca but will it make it worst??? i was told to run it during my next test/deca cycle.

[J.S.N.]

you can't just say that nandrolone isn't very androgenic, thus will not cause hair loss. the fact of the matter is, than some people lose alot of hair on deca, and the loss is not related to DHT. some people believe that the nandrolone itself is what causes the hair loss, and that fin/dutasteride prevents it from converting to DHN, so you shouldn't take fin/dutasteride with nandrolone, but it's pure spectulation, once again based on the pure androgenicity (or lack thereof) of DHN. if i were prone to hair loss i would take duasteride along with a deca/test cycle and if i experienced noticeable hair loss i would drop the deca and never use it again (unless you stop caring about your hair that is).

maybe the safest route would be to run NPP only E2D or E3D only with nothing to prevent 5AR conversion (since the deca should shut down your HPTA axis anyways) and see what happens. if you start losing hair on NPP only you can be damn sure it's the nadrolone and stop using it immediately, and it should be out of your system rather quickly.

[guest589745]

Finasteride is for compounds that convert to DHT

[MACHI]

Basically, I'm asking whats more harmful to hair follices nandrolone or DHT. Lets say the 5AR converts 10-20% of available nandrolone to the less androgenic metabolite nor-DHT - at 300mgs this is at most 60 mgs of nor-DHT in your system compared to 240mgs of nandrolone. Then lets say the 5AR converts the same% of tesosterone to DHT, however, you taking much higher doses of testosterone, say around 500mg/wk. Thats 100mgs of DHT in your system. Im keeping this %'s constat due to various assumptions that I won't get into...... So my main question is - whats going to aggravate your hair follicles more, 240mgs of nandrolone or 100mgs of DHT?

Everyone says Deca and finasteride shouldn't be taken together because Deca won't convert to its milder metabolite but Im questioning the validity behind belief because I can't find any information comparing the androgenicity of nandrolone to DHT as it relates to aggravating hair loss.

[J.S.N.]

it doesn't relate in any meaningful way. DHT-induced hair loss is not a predictor of nandrolone-induced hair loss. you can have a perfect head of hair, then do a cycle of deca and lose a bunch, or conversely be going bald without AAS even and have nandrolone not affect your hair.

the reason you can't find any information is because no one knows how nandrolone (or it's metabolites) lead to hair loss. if it eventually converts to DHT it's certainly isn't in any appreciable amount.

[BajanBastard]

I'll answer your question in detail in the morning buddy.

[vitor]

Nadrolone gets converted to DHN thrue the 5ar, (which is present in tissues in the scalp and skin). DHN have very weak activity an an androgen(in the scalp which determinates hairloss), not b/c it has no activity at all, but the reduction in testosterone/dht levels will more than make up for the activity DHN has. Hairloss on a deca only cycle is therefor very unlikely.

When nadrolone is used with proscar the 5ar gets blocked,(nadrolone will not be able to convert to DHN in the scalp tissue)so you will get the full effect of nadrolone on the hair.

Testosterone gets converted to DHT thrue the 5ar, which have much stronger androgenic activity than testosterone does. Therefor when you use duta/proscar testosterone gets blocked from getting converted to DHT in the recepters in the scalp, which helps greatly.

If you use test and deca together, it will still be safer to use proscar/duta than not using it. Testosterone without proscar is harder on the hair than deca with proscar.

However, if you arent prone to mpb, steroids can not lead to hairloss either way.

[MACHI]

Nadrolone gets converted to DHN thrue the 5ar, (which is present in tissues in the scalp and skin). DHN have very weak activity an an androgen(in the scalp which determinates hairloss), not b/c it has no activity at all, but the reduction in testosterone/dht levels will more than make up for the activity DHN has. Hairloss on a deca only cycle is therefor very unlikely.

When nadrolone is used with proscar the 5ar gets blocked,(nadrolone will not be able to convert to DHN in the scalp tissue)so you will get the full effect of nadrolone on the hair.

Testosterone gets converted to DHT thrue the 5ar, which have much stronger androgenic activity than testosterone does. Therefor when you use duta/proscar testosterone gets blocked from getting converted to DHT in the recepters in the scalp, which helps greatly.

If you use test and deca together, it will still be safer to use proscar/duta than not using it. Testosterone without proscar is harder on the hair than deca with proscar.

However, if you arent prone to mpb, steroids can not lead to hairloss either way.

Thanks for the input vitor but the stuff in red is really all you needed to type...I allready talked about the other stuff. Thats the same idea I'm trying to express - that a finasteride in a test and deca cycle will still help more than it will harm..... I'm trying to find out why many many people say you shouldn't take deca with finasteride even if you have high doses of test - I think DHT would do far more damage to your hair than the nandrolone....

[MACHI]

it doesn't relate in any meaningful way. DHT-induced hair loss is not a predictor of nandrolone-induced hair loss. you can have a perfect head of hair, then do a cycle of deca and lose a bunch, or conversely be going bald without AAS even and have nandrolone not affect your hair.

the reason you can't find any information is because no one knows how nandrolone (or it's metabolites) lead to hair loss. if it eventually converts to DHT it's certainly isn't in any appreciable amount.

I'm not trying to say that the effect of DHT on any particular individual's hair follicles would be a predictor of nandrolone induced hair loss. I know there is wide variation among individuals due to genes and lifestyle/environment. However, its known that certain steroids are worse for aggravating a balding condition than others. (ie) methandrostenelone vs. test) So thats why I'm trying to find a mean comparison between nandrolone and DHT or basically why people tell me I shouldn't take finasteride with a Test and Deca cycle.

That said, there is even relatively little information on exactly how DHT itself leads to hair loss - otherwise we could prevent this at a cellular level rather than inhibiting the activity of an entire enzyme and preventing its effects from occuring throughout the entire body. - I'm sure your aware of its positive effects too....

Thanks for your continued input though J.S.N -- hopefully we can generate a constructive post here and get to the root of these shananagins!

[Random]

I think Vitor is right on this in that you should use Dutasteride with test Even if you use deca since test conversion to DHT will be harsher than the DHN for those prone anyway...

[castertroy]

so on a test /deca cycle its a good idea to use finasteride or dutasteride ? there has to be somthing else u can take

[Random]

Use duta, its better, i dont see a reason to use finasteride when duta is significantly better, that with nizoral shampoo 2%

[MACHI]

Use duta, its better, i dont see a reason to use finasteride when duta is significantly better, that with nizoral shampoo 2%

Well dutasteride is only approved for BPH in the US if you want to get it through a doc. I have no problem gettting finasteride through my doc....