Calling All Supporters of Compound Movements

[MoneyAddyct]

I'm a firm believer in the benefits of compound movements and exercises over isolation movements and exercises as far as mass building is concerned. I've personally had great success using thistheory of bodybuilding. But I want to play devil's advocate for a second....If the idea that iso exercises can only get you so far in terms of size and you need compound movements in order to achieve real mass (such as using squats to build the biceps beyond what curls, etc. could ever do), then why do you so many people--in fact, the majority of people I see (who lift)--have a tremendous upper body and arms but relatively little mass in the legs (which would lead you to believe that compound exercises were not a main focus)? Is it all genetics?

Here's a link to an article posted by SPG called "How to Squat for Huge Arms": http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ight=huge+arms

MoneyAddyct

[MoneyAddyct]

No one, really? I guess my attempt at sparking some debate was unsuccessful.

[DNoMac]

I've always heard doing a big compound movement such as squats allows the body to release growth hormones (thus increasing arm size), but I've never read articles supporting this. Personally, I just began eliminating most isolation movements two weeks ago, and am doing primarily compound movements. It's too early to tell the effects, but I def think I'm gonna pack on more quality mass.

[mavsluva]

I dedicate one entire week of a month for nothing but compound movements. I call it my "change up" week. Lots of pull ups (wide and narrow grip) and dips (weighted and non-weighted). I often do them in a push-pull order. I have some of my better workouts this way. Another thing that I do are suspended pullups and dips. For instance, rather than going all the way down on your dips, go half way down and then hold it for 5 seconds. Then go back up. Do this until failure. Works great.

[IBdmfkr]

I base every workout around compound movements, I isolate very little.

[MoneyAddyct]

Hmm, all interesting responses. I've recently changed my workout routine to include mostly compound exercises myself. But doing something similiar to mavsluva might work well also.

I'm still wondering whether compound exercises will help cultivate more upper body mass than iso exercises based on my initial comment--that a lot of lifters have very small legs but large upper bodies.

[MoneyAddyct]

I dedicate one entire week of a month for nothing but compound movements. I call it my "change up" week. Lots of pull ups (wide and narrow grip) and dips (weighted and non-weighted). I often do them in a push-pull order. I have some of my better workouts this way. Another thing that I do are suspended pullups and dips. For instance, rather than going all the way down on your dips, go half way down and then hold it for 5 seconds. Then go back up. Do this until failure. Works great.

Do you include dips and pull-ups in your non change-up workouts as well (in smaller quantities) or do you use those exercises only for the compound exercise week?

[mavsluva]

Do you include dips and pull-ups in your non change-up workouts as well (in smaller quantities) or do you use those exercises only for the compound exercise week?

I don't as I only use pull ups and dips during my change ups. The other weeks are strictly isolated movements while targeting a specific body part each day.

[IBdmfkr]

I only train on average of 2-3times/wk so taking a day to isolate a bodypart is out of the question for me, I used to do that but as you get more advanced I feel you need to use a higher intensity workout/coupled by adequate rest to really see improvement and growth.

For a beginner I would always recommend isolated movements because many ppl will either grow unevenly due to lack of knowledge on proper form or the fact that they favor certain muscle groups, also at a more elementary level you are able to recovery faster enabling you to lift more frequently.

[MoneyAddyct]

Great info, thanks IB.

[anabolicwannabe]

i used to squat a lot and i would say my legs are MUCH better developed than my upper body. (i have freaking skinny arms) recently i tried increasing the volume with more upper body compounds (rows, dips etc) and it helped my chest and back significantly. arms lesser but still an increase. and my squatting volume is still the same, or it may even be slightly lower.

therefore squats in itself do not affect upper body development.

just glanced through the article and i am more or less in agreement with the article. i think this could sum it up: "While adding 100 pounds to your squat, you should be able to add 50-70 pounds to your bench press, for reps. This assumes you’ve put together a sound program and have worked hard on the bench. That will add size to your triceps."
it is more of the increase in overall body strength which allows you to improve your bench/pulldown and therefore your triceps/biceps rather than squatting to raise hormones..

else i'd squat for 20 reps rest-pause then bicep curl for an hour.. (if anyone tries this, tell me how it goes!)

[Chad B]

i used to squat a lot and i would say my legs are MUCH better developed than my upper body. (i have freaking skinny arms) recently i tried increasing the volume with more upper body compounds (rows, dips etc) and it helped my chest and back significantly. arms lesser but still an increase. and my squatting volume is still the same, or it may even be slightly lower.

therefore squats in itself do not affect upper body development.

just glanced through the article and i am more or less in agreement with the article. i think this could sum it up: "While adding 100 pounds to your squat, you should be able to add 50-70 pounds to your bench press, for reps. This assumes you’ve put together a sound program and have worked hard on the bench. That will add size to your triceps."
it is more of the increase in overall body strength which allows you to
improve your bench/pulldown and therefore your triceps/biceps rather than squatting to raise hormones..

else i'd squat for 20 reps rest-pause then bicep curl for an hour.. (if anyone tries this, tell me how it goes!)

He is taking about putting on mass and your suggesting 20 reps.. Maybe if he wants to look like a swimmer. Most Huge bbs I have seen and talked to keep it between 4-6 or 6-8, and always fail on the last one.

Squats develop the whole body PERIOD, they are the cornerstone.

In most gyms people don’t work out there legs as much or as intense as there upper bodies, hence the uneven look.

Compound movements will put on the most mass because you are using your secondary muscles to help the muscle you are working out to be more intense, more breakdown, more rebuild. EX: A stand up ez bar curl or strait bar curl will put on more mass, more evenly than doing preacher curls.

[IBdmfkr]

Disagree with the stand-up/straight bar curls putting on more mass than preacher but agree with the compound stuff.

[IronReload04]

I'm a firm believer in the benefits of compound movements and exercises over isolation movements and exercises as far as mass building is concerned. I've personally had great success using thistheory of bodybuilding. But I want to play devil's advocate for a second....If the idea that iso exercises can only get you so far in terms of size and you need compound movements in order to achieve real mass (such as using squats to build the biceps beyond what curls, etc. could ever do), then why do you so many people--in fact, the majority of people I see (who lift)--have a tremendous upper body and arms but relatively little mass in the legs (which would lead you to believe that compound exercises were not a main focus)? Is it all genetics?

Here's a link to an article posted by SPG called "How to Squat for Huge Arms": http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ight=huge+arms

MoneyAddyct

well imo, you can only go so far with the above. Personally i dont think 15.5-16 inch arms and so on is a tremendous amount of muscle. To get past this, eventually, for that individual to get the most out of his body, he may need to enlarge his thighs, glutes, and lower back

[IronReload04]

He is taking about putting on mass and your suggesting 20 reps.. Maybe if he wants to look like a swimmer. Most Huge bbs I have seen and talked to keep it between 4-6 or 6-8, and always fail on the last one.

Squats develop the whole body PERIOD, they are the cornerstone.

In most gyms people don’t work out there legs as much or as intense as there upper bodies, hence the uneven look.

Compound movements will put on the most mass because you are using your secondary muscles to help the muscle you are working out to be more intense, more breakdown, more rebuild. EX: A stand up ez bar curl or strait bar curl will put on more mass, more evenly than doing preacher curls.

thats not anything to lol about. Legs are a little bit different. Their are a slew, a ton in fact, guys who believe 20 reps squats grow legs the fastest

[IronReload04]

if you think 20 reps squats is pussyfooting, than you need to try this. pick a weight you think you can only do for 12, and find it within yourself to get to 20. rock bottom ass to grass of course. the last 5 should be the hardest thing you have ever attempted and you shouldnt be able to move or talk for a good 5-10 minutes

[IBdmfkr]

Then on the flip-side there are just as many who believe heavier weight at a lower rep-range with the same amount of intensity just explained is the best way to go..
Each person responds differently, I think both ways work it all depends on if you have the patience to let your legs/CNS recover after an intense workout like that, most ppl jump back in the gym a day or two later halting the repair process and growth.

[anabolicwannabe]

He is taking about putting on mass and your suggesting 20 reps.. Maybe if he wants to look like a swimmer. Most Huge bbs I have seen and talked to keep it between 4-6 or 6-8, and always fail on the last one.

Squats develop the whole body PERIOD, they are the cornerstone.

In most gyms people don’t work out there legs as much or as intense as there upper bodies, hence the uneven look.

Compound movements will put on the most mass because you are using your secondary muscles to help the muscle you are working out to be more intense, more breakdown, more rebuild. EX: A stand up ez bar curl or strait bar curl will put on more mass, more evenly than doing preacher curls.

slow down a little man.. the last sentence was a joke..
and the key word was 20 rep REST PAUSE, so one guy got it right when he said the part about picking a weight you can only do for 12, then do 20. (although i was thinking of picking a weight you can only do for 10 cause that's what i read)

it was just meant to mean squatting with intensity (to raise hormone levels), then proceed to exercise what i wanna build (biceps in this case) since my hormone levels are raised and i should have enormous biceps growth..

i hope it's clearer? my sentence has nothing to do with squat rep prescription..

[doby48]

I used to have a routine which consisted of compoud and isolated movements mixed in together and I had great results from that. I recently found myself in a wheelchair due to a sudden disease so I'm still working out the logistics on compound movements. Right now its all isoloated for me but that out of lack of physical ability. I would still be doing a mix of both if it wasnt for the very limited use of my legs though.

[zodiac666]

heavy compound movements like squats would help overall muscle development but i think the effect would be minimal. you definitely need to work the actual muscle in order for that muscle to grow. if all you do for biceps is squats then you will have tiny biceps.

IMO compound movements should always be the base of your routine and i usually do them first because they are the most beneficial. but i always throw some iso movements in toward the end of my workout because they do hit the target muscle more directly and you can usually get an excellent peak contraction. some iso movements where you can get an excellent peak contraction are leg extensions, cable crossovers, concentration curls, one-arm reverse grip pressdowns, lateral raises, and that back exercise that i cant remember the name of where you stand facing a high cable usually with a straight bar and pull the bar down to your thighs without bending your elbows.

[IBdmfkr]

A compound movement that really stresses the bi's is the underhand grip pull-down.. I didn't work biceps/triceps/shoulders directly for 6months earlier this year and my arms grew 1/2inch, I didn't do one isolated movement but rather certain compound movements in conjunction with each other and received nice overall growth and stayed very symmetrical..
I took measurements before and after the 6month period and was amazed.. (I did it simply as an experiment on myself).

Now I wouldn't suggest isolated movements aren't needed for optimal growth, but compound movements are absolutely required to build a good foundation and aesthetically pleasing body.

[doittoit]

shit man, i hear ya about the underhand pulldowns lol, did those last night, along with deads and rows, wow my bis/forarms are toasty, im gonna try to hold out on the isolated bi'tri work see what happens.

[zodiac666]

A compound movement that really stresses the bi's is the underhand grip pull-down.. I didn't work biceps/triceps/shoulders directly for 6months earlier this year and my arms grew 1/2inch, I didn't do one isolated movement but rather certain compound movements in conjunction with each other and received nice overall growth and stayed very symmetrical..
I took measurements before and after the 6month period and was amazed.. (I did it simply as an experiment on myself).

Now I wouldn't suggest isolated movements aren't needed for optimal growth, but compound movements are absolutely required to build a good foundation and aesthetically pleasing body.

very interesting, i have thought about trying this before but exercises like shrugs, skullcrushers, barbell curls, dumbbell flyes, and lateral raises i dont think are considered compound exercises and i feel that these movements, when done heavy, are excellent for growth.

also i agree 100% that compound movements are absolutely required to build a good foundation. and as you said iso movements definitly have their place in a workout routine, but you need to make sure that you are doing at least a couple compound movements for each muscle group.

[IBdmfkr]

I just experimented with the use of compound movements only.. It was successful on proving my theory.. although I wouldn't do it again as I feel iso's are needed if they're placed correctly in a routine.. but also people tend to over-do them and cause overtraining, there is a fine line there.. many people aren't experienced enough or know their body enough to depict this.

[WidowMaker]

I'm a firm believer in the benefits of compound movements and exercises over isolation movements and exercises as far as mass building is concerned. I've personally had great success using thistheory of bodybuilding. But I want to play devil's advocate for a second....If the idea that iso exercises can only get you so far in terms of size and you need compound movements in order to achieve real mass (such as using squats to build the biceps beyond what curls, etc. could ever do), then why do you so many people--in fact, the majority of people I see (who lift)--have a tremendous upper body and arms but relatively little mass in the legs (which would lead you to believe that compound exercises were not a main focus)? Is it all genetics?

Here's a link to an article posted by SPG called "How to Squat for Huge Arms": http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ight=huge+arms
MoneyAddyct

Brother,
The bottom line is when I see sh@t like that around this area. Me and my Bros pay attention to their workouts sometimes before/after my workouts and sometimes between sets. These people seem to skip the barbell squats/barbell deads. When observed long enough it it seems a bit odd for the all out upper body workouts and the lower intense leg work. Sometimes when some of them were asked if they do squats/deads they cring in fear (talking about the guys here not the gals) like these two life are horrifyingly evil in some way. And in no way,shape or form are you going to make them believe different. I personally think they are just insecure, lazya$$es that want some dumba$$ to admire their upper body, figuring that, that's what the majority focus upon anyway. Just my $0.02.

Widow