any way to help stomach more cals?

[ascendant]

well, i'm on my first cycle in a long time and have my cals way up there at about 4500-4800/day. i'm gaining pretty well, but i feel like i'm going to vomit and die half the time from being so full all the time from eating so much.

i'm wondering how is it that the pro's take in 8000+cals a day and manage to digest it all? i personally feel at the cal intake i'm at now like my system gets backed up, but i know i need the cals to make maximum muscle gains on this cycle.

i'm thinking maybe my fat intake is too low and that i should maybe drop some carbs and increase my fat intake to make my meals smaller at least? not sure where my fat intake is exactly off the top of my head, but i'm thinking it's somewhere around 100g/day right now. my carbs are somewhere around 500g or so and my protein is probably about 400g.

now, i thought maybe digestive enzymes would help things flow through quicker, but they didn't help. just wondering if there's anything else you can try to help speed up your digestive system and help things flow through there without feeling like you're still full from your last meal as you're eating your next one?

[IBdmfkr]

Eating that many calories with a metabolism like yours (judging from your avatar) is a quick way to put on a lot of fat.

[ascendant]

Eating that many calories with a metabolism like yours (judging from your avatar) is a quick way to put on a lot of fat.

nah. in the past 2 weeks, i've put on 5lbs of muscle and only 1lb of fat. the avy is pretty outdated. that was me at about 12%bf. right now, i'm at 9.5% and planning on staying below 10%.

anyway, prior to bringing my cals up this high, i wasn't making any gains at all, so i do feel that though maybe i could back them off by 300cals/day or so, i do need to keep them up in the 4000+ range. it's just so hard to stomach it all.

also, don't they say when you're on a cycle that your cals need to be way up there to make maximal gains? i've always brought mine up to a min of 3800/day in the past.

[IBdmfkr]

Do whatever works bro but I'd bet you money you haven't put on 5lbs of muscle in 2wks.
Also are you 9.5% according to BF calipers? I wouldn't consider them an accurate way to measure bodyfat, it'll change depending on who is measuring you along with many other factors. 9.5% isn't really all that lean anyhow on a male athelete, I'd consider it more on the sloppy side offseason personally.

You may have filled your glycogen stores back up and have the illusion you've put on 5lbs of muscle, but it just isn't so. Go get hydrostatic testing before and after, then report your findings.

I have a relatively fast metabolism and I stay at around 3500-3800 and steadily grow putting on minimal bodyfat.
Obviously each individual would be different but it seems many people overshoot their caloric needs in hopes of putting on muscle too quickly, thus resulting in obvious bodyfat changes over a 8-12wk period.

[chest6]

Do whatever works bro but I'd bet you money you haven't put on 5lbs of muscle in 2wks.
Also are you 9.5% according to BF calipers? I wouldn't consider them an accurate way to measure bodyfat, it'll change depending on who is measuring you along with many other factors. 9.5% isn't really all that lean anyhow on a male athelete, I'd consider it more on the sloppy side offseason personally.

You may have filled your glycogen stores back up and have the illusion you've put on 5lbs of muscle, but it just isn't so. Go get hydrostatic testing before and after, then report your findings.

I have a relatively fast metabolism and I stay at around 3500-3800 and steadily grow putting on minimal bodyfat.
Obviously each individual would be different but it seems many people overshoot their caloric needs in hopes of putting on muscle too quickly, thus resulting in obvious bodyfat changes over a 8-12wk period.

speak for yourself high metabolism haver

[IBdmfkr]

The statements were to make the point I was talking about.

Over 4K calories just isn't needed by the majority of ppl on the boards, but for some reason you see it happening left and right.
It simply doesn't take that many calories to grow muscle for most individuals, period.

[ascendant]

Do whatever works bro but I'd bet you money you haven't put on 5lbs of muscle in 2wks.
Also are you 9.5% according to BF calipers? I wouldn't consider them an accurate way to measure bodyfat, it'll change depending on who is measuring you along with many other factors. 9.5% isn't really all that lean anyhow on a male athelete, I'd consider it more on the sloppy side offseason personally.

You may have filled your glycogen stores back up and have the illusion you've put on 5lbs of muscle, but it just isn't so. Go get hydrostatic testing before and after, then report your findings.

I have a relatively fast metabolism and I stay at around 3500-3800 and steadily grow putting on minimal bodyfat.
Obviously each individual would be different but it seems many people overshoot their caloric needs in hopes of putting on muscle too quickly, thus resulting in obvious bodyfat changes over a 8-12wk period.

thanks a lot for the input, it's much appreciated and i'm taking all you said into serious consideration.

as far as checking my bf%, i always have my wife do it and she's pretty consistent with where she measures. i am on the first cycle in about 2 1/2years now, so that's why i'm having the really fast muscle growth. the 5lbs i put on recently was well after my glycogen stores filled up, but i will admit that throughout the cycle i have also put on more fat than i was hoping to. started at 6%bf and i'm up to about 9.5% now, though i haven't gained anymore in about 2 weeks but did gain that lean mass.

you may be right though in that i may be taking an excess amount of calories in. however, my concern becomes if i don't take in enough calories, i won't make maximal gains and i will let a cycle go to waste. now, how do you find that balance where you know you're taking in enough cals for maximal muscle growth but not so much that you'll gain any bf? i know a lot of it has to do with experimentation, but i'm just wondering about how much leeway you can get based off of the metabolisms flexibility to work with your caloric intake?

[IBdmfkr]

First you'd have to have a good understanding of your body and it's caloric needs.

What is your maintenance caloric need for each day?

[ascendant]

First you'd have to have a good understanding of your body and it's caloric needs.

What is your maintenance caloric need for each day?

well, the problem with all that is that i'm gaining size and looking to continue to do so each cycle for at least another year, so my maintenance calories change. also, lately all i've done is bulked up for a while, then cut up, then started my cycle and of course bulked again, so i have no idea what my maintenance caloric intake would be right now.

i'm at 205lbs right now and looking to get back where i used to be before my long layoff, which was about 240lbs at 9%bf, though of course i'd like to be leaner this time.

the best i can tell you is that as my cycle started to kick in, i was at about 3800cals for a full week when i was at about 195lbs and didn't gain anything that whole week. that's when i got frustrated and upped my cals to 4300cals and gained just 2lbs that next week, which for me was not impressive considering what i was on and all that. then, i bumped it up to 4500-4700cals and started making better gains.

maybe it was just that the gear still hadn't fully kicked in yet. i just get nervous about having my cals too low and not making gains off a cycle cause of it. then again, i am concerned about having my caloric intake too high which i've done in the past and let myself get up to a sloppy 12-13%bf, which i want to make sure i DON'T do anymore.

i do know of a site that has different calculators to figure out your approximate daily maintenance cals. i suppose i could give that a shot. now, i know there's 3500cals in a lb of fat, but how much in a lb of muscle? just trying to figure out how much i'd need to go over my maintenance to gain x amount of muscle per week.

[IBdmfkr]

Muscle develops much slower, thus making it harder to gain a pound of muscle over a pound of fat. You don't have to physically exert yourself to get fat, your body just simply stores excess calories etc..
A lb of muscle is obviously not so simple, your body must first breakdown the tissue and begin to rebuild, your body will actually use calories to start this repair process causing your metabolic rate to increase and enable you to eat more than say someone with the same stats that doesn't lift weights.

Anyhow, 4800 calories simply isn't needed to build muscle on someone with your about of LBM and frame. I think you're a bit overparanoid. You'll end up putting on 20lbs from the cycle, probably 10-12lbs of it will be fat in which you'll have to try and burn off after the cycle is over. During the process you'll lose another pound or two of muscle in doing so.

It's just not necessary to gain all the unneeded fat IMO, again everyone's opinion will be different but you constantly see BB'ers coming into a contest diet 30-40lbs overweight and barely coming on stage any heavier than the year before. It's not that they didn't put on 10-15lbs of muscle during the offseason, normally it's the fact that they had to diet so hard that they ended up dieting off a majority of the muscle gained during the year.

Point is, find your maintenance caloric needs and put your calories 300-500 above that number. Even 1/2lb of muscle gained/wk is a great accomplishment. Over a 12wks period you're looking at 6lbs of solid muscle, keep doing this during the offseason too, even at 1/4lb per week and you'll put on well over 10-12lbs for the entire year.
JMO.

[ascendant]

Muscle develops much slower, thus making it harder to gain a pound of muscle over a pound of fat. You don't have to physically exert yourself to get fat, your body just simply stores excess calories etc..
A lb of muscle is obviously not so simple, your body must first breakdown the tissue and begin to rebuild, your body will actually use calories to start this repair process causing your metabolic rate to increase and enable you to eat more than say someone with the same stats that doesn't lift weights.

Anyhow, 4800 calories simply isn't needed to build muscle on someone with your about of LBM and frame. I think you're a bit overparanoid. You'll end up putting on 20lbs from the cycle, probably 10-12lbs of it will be fat in which you'll have to try and burn off after the cycle is over. During the process you'll lose another pound or two of muscle in doing so.

It's just not necessary to gain all the unneeded fat IMO, again everyone's opinion will be different but you constantly see BB'ers coming into a contest diet 30-40lbs overweight and barely coming on stage any heavier than the year before. It's not that they didn't put on 10-15lbs of muscle during the offseason, normally it's the fact that they had to diet so hard that they ended up dieting off a majority of the muscle gained during the year.

Point is, find your maintenance caloric needs and put your calories 300-500 above that number. Even 1/2lb of muscle gained/wk is a great accomplishment. Over a 12wks period you're looking at 6lbs of solid muscle, keep doing this during the offseason too, even at 1/4lb per week and you'll put on well over 10-12lbs for the entire year.
JMO.

well after all that, i can unquestionably see why you're a mod.

thanks for all the info bro, it's really appreciated. i'll drop those calories some and be a little more patient when it comes to putting the size on. you made a lot of very good points and i do see exactly what you're talking about with a lot of people.

[IBdmfkr]

No problem Ascendant, remember these are merely my opinions and coming from my own experiences.. You've been around for quite a while so I don't mind taking the time to give you a hand..

Hate seeing guys go down the path that you were headed, it's very frustrating and normally leads to either people giving up or users taking stupid dosages to meet their goals.
Glad to see you're gonna take the safer/slower route, you'll be much happier and healthier when you achieve your goals.

Let us know as your cycle progresses, very interested to see how it turns out.