Associate Member
When you guys are on fatloss diets, how many carbmeals and fatmeals do you have. Do you have any meals with mostly protein?
If you have a day were you only do cardio before breakfast and no weightlifting, how many carbmeals would you have on that day?
Is it bad to eat tuna one can a day every week, or should I eat tuna from monday to friday and then some other protein on the weekend?
Senior Member
You will get differing opinions here but I have had the best success cutting by limiting carbs. It's pretty simple: Carbs, particulaly simple carbs metabolize very quickly. What is not used as energy is stored as fat. Protien breaks down much more slowly, so I think, and have thought for a long time that the best way to cut is through low carb. Hence have no "carb meals."
The only people that I have seen who can mix carb meals with protien meals and still cut are either long distance runners or very very young with really fast metabolism.
Originally Posted by bigeater
Anabolic Member
I usually eat 4 carb meals (pre and post workout) and then two protein and veggie meals at night on any given day. I don't carb cycle til I get close to a competition, but that's because I can keep carbs steady and build or lean out depending on what i need. Most people on her eat less carbs on non weight days.
Associate Member
Are you doing the keto diet and eating mostly fat?
I don´t want to eat unhealthy fats and I think that it would be hard to get enough fat from only healthy fats. With healthy fats I mean like salmon, nuts, natty peanutbutter and oils.
Senior Member
No, I eat mostly protien, followed by fat. I eat a lot of chicken and fish, sometimes steak or burgers. Get some fat from the steak or bugers (i eay bugers w/out ketchp or a bun - or if I use ketchup I use a low carb one like Atkins or Heinz One). Ther fats I get are through nuts and eggs canola olil peanut oil, olive oil.
It works very well for my purposes.
I am curious what your age is and where you live (not lookin for the street address - but are u in the UK?) This may make some difference.
Last edited by beenie; 11-24-2006 at 02:44 PM.
Associate Member
I live in sweden and I´m 23 years old.
Do you have any carbup days or cheatdays?
Anabolic Member
While cutting I have 5-6 carb containing meals.. I don't believe in pro/fat dieting.
Sometimes..
Sometimes i have a protein + veggie meal.. or a (solid) protein only meal.
Depends on if i'm carb cycling or not.
5-6
Is it bad?
No.
I eat tuna every day.
How should you structure your protein sources? According to personal preference.. and what you can afford.
No.. i don't believe in cheating either.
Associate Member
Thank you Narkissos for your reply.
Some can cut on high carb and some need to eat lowcard because they are carbsensitive. I don´t think that I´m carbsensitive but would it be a good idea to do carbcykling, like 4 days lowcarb about 80 grams of carbs a day and 3 days moderate carb 140 - 200 grams of carbs? I weight about 176 pounds.
I was wondering if beebie had any carbup days because he wrote that he don´t have any carbmeals only protein and fat meals. I know that you don´t need carbup days if you eat 5 - 6 carbmeals a day.
Associate Member
Also about the tuna.
Won´t I get too much mercury if I eat 7 cans a week?
Anabolic Member
np.
I believe this is a fallacy.
Most equate 'bloat' with 'sensitivity'.. while bloat does indiciate sensitivity, it is not of the nature with which is being equated.
Bloat indicates poor carb source selection.
Change the carb source (i.e. from grains to tubers) and most will be bloat-free.
Anyway..on to your questions:
Where are you tossing these figures from?
To determine the range.. you need to establish your maintenance kcals.. and establish a maintenance macronutrient range.
Then you can modify the numbers for cycling
Personally i wouldn't go any lower than 150 grams of carbs.
At what bodyfat percentage?
Again.. 176.. like 80; 140; and 200... are just arbritary numbers
Says who?
The number of carb meals bears no correlation with the carb total.
If you're taking in 20 gr of carbs per meal over 6 meals.. that's 120 gr per day
That's low... and would warrant a carb up day.
Again.. don't get caught up with arbitrary numbers
Narkissos
Senior Member
Not at all. You really dont begin to see the affect of low carb before a week. So, if you cheat, its like starting over every time. It takes about 4 days to get the carbs completely out of yer system.
Senior Member
Nrkisos' advice makes sence to me for him because he is stil young and judging from his pic, very muscular.
The low carb thing aof which I speak works well for cutting fat, and getting modest muscle gains. His plan is more of a building plan.
Since I like faster results and prefer thin and lean over big and fat ANY day, the low carb aproach works well.
One other observationm of mine is that guys who start working out really young react better over time. Even when they later decline and then later try to "get it back" thier bodies respond more quickly and more favorably.
Unless thier Asian, in which case no matter what thier past, they seem to be able to get ripped in about 3 hours- really perplexing- but I guess that a lot of it has to do with genetics. For me, I WORK for every ounce of gain (or loss).
Associate Member
I just checked. I have about 20 % bodyfat.
When I´m not doing cardio or working I burn 2000 kcals. I burn 2200 - 2400 when I´m doing cardio, it depends on what kind of cardio I do.
Should I eat 500 kcals less than I burn?
Associate Member
I have read somewhere that after you have been on a keto diet that you put on a lot of weight fast when you start eating carbs.
Associate Member
For how long are you doing the lowcarb diet?
Do you think it´s good or bad to do carbcykling? Or could I stay on moderate to high carb for 3 - 4 months and then do lowcarb for 2 - 3 months? I think I´m going to diet and do cardio for 5 - 6 months.
I cheat on the weekend when my mom, sister or grandmother offer me food.
Anabolic Member
I am 24..and the thread originator is 23.
This makes the advice, if age is the determinant, not only applicable to myself.. but to him also.
The pic is from the precontest period... Prior to the precontest period i am 40 lbs over my contest weight. 'Muscularity' is acheived tru rigid adherance to the dietary principles as alluded to above.
As indicated above.. this is used in cutting.. and it allows myself and my clients to reach sub-4% bodyfat percentages
I use variations of this plain while 'bulking'... The difference between 'cutting' and 'bulking' being total caloric intake and aerobic-based caloric expenditure.
To say that one plan is 'better' or to discount the feasibility of a plan due someone's age is erroneous.
Evaluating and establishing the benefit of an approach can only be done tru the review of its effect on an individual
That being said.. the relatively healthy trainee should not be concerned about 'carb sensitivity' in its true sense. This is carb sensitivity with regard to insulin sensitivity; glucose tolerance and uptake.
Most healthy individuals following a true low-carb diet are flat and unhealthy looking/feeling.
This is not however discounting that low-carb can work.
This is however suggesting that there are other more feasible plans..
Anabolic Member
Again.. how you much you should actually eat.. depends on your Lean body mass.
Someone 176 lbs @ 2.5% bodyfat is going to burn a hell of a lot more calories at rest (and in motion) than someone 176 lbs@ 20 % bodyfat.
Calculate your BMR and work from there.
It's a good approach. Most competitive bodybuilders carb cycle.
With no prior experience dieting it'd be impossible to say which range would have what effect on you.
At minimum.. stay with a moderate carb diet tru-out.. with a carb re-feed day every 7 days. No cheat days.
At most.. carb cycle: day 1: high carb; day 2: moderate carb; Day 3: moderate carb; day 4: low carb.. repeat
Moderate carb approach is easier to maintain... because you more or less do the same thing daily til you stagnate. Then you change a variable. Or you could do it in phases so stagnation does not occur.
Carb cycling is a bit more complex.. as it requires one to cycle other macronutrients as well.
e.g. on the high carb day.. protein and fat are reduced. Protein for one because carbs are protien sparing. On low carb days, protein and fat are bumped etc. .. or protein solely.. depending on experience. It can get complicated for the average indivdual who doesn't spend a lot of time analysing diet variables and plotting diet phases.
Stop it... unless reaching yoru goals is less important.
I find the most really over do cheating on the boards.. and as such, most fail to meet their goals.
Junior Member
Im starting to agree with Nark.I find that being back on BFL meals I am slightly bloated at end of day.Yet in morning I am back to lean.I eat potatoes and might switch up to yams but I dont think I have to yet.I lost 6 pounds again in one week and finally realized that the pro/fat meals had me dehydrated and it wasnt fat or muscle loss.I dont like the look nor the feel.Especially the feel as my cardio was cut short due to absolutely no energy and fear that I was burning muscle.
The thing that nags me about pro/fat meals is this.....Protein causes just as much insulin as carbs.Yet you hear the "pro/fat meals cause no insulin" all the time.The pro/carb meals all day also work wonders if your hypoglycemic.I find pro/fat meals WACK me out big time!!!!
My new diet is....
Pre-workout/Post-workout.....25gms whey and 20gms Dex
One hr later for my next meal and then I eat every 3 hrs thereafter
125calories of lean protein and 150calories from carb source/1tbsp of Udo's oil with last meal.
By friday and just 2 days back on balanced cabs/pro I look my best but weigh 180 again.Its the tightness in the waist that I go by now.
Senior Member
I wouldn't know. I started low carb seven years ago, and have not started eating carbs yet. When I decide to, I'll let you know. I am unlikely to add many carbs because I like the way I look now. So for me, it was never a temporary thing, it was a lifestyle change. Any while I would not describe myself as a body builder, I look gooooooood!
Senior Member
I saw that u are 24 and that he is 23. That's y i think that it will likely work for him. I really dont think that it would be so effective for someone over 50, for example, or for that matter over 35. As you get older yer metabolism slows down - it just does.
If you can get ME to 4% bf, I'd be yer slave for life! Dont think its possible. I am very satisfied when I am able to get to around 8 or 9%, would kill to go lower but am really not able.
That being said, I am not flat nor unhealthy. Most people in fact, are in awe of my phyisique (overall population i mean but present company excluded).
Junior Member
hehe very funnyI had a friend yrs back that while he was very skinny he was ripped to the bone.I remember just asking him to pose to marvel at the striations thuout his body.His chest had hundreds of horizontal lines when he flexed.looked like razor thin cuts and I was so amazed by that.Yes he was asian.I on the other hand though very skinny at one time was never ripped.Abs showing yes but hundreds of lines in the muscles..
Junior Member
Beenie can you post a daily menu?
Banned
Same..
Junior Member
Dam dam dam.I just feasted out today and i read that you two guys DONT believe in cheating.I do believe in a carbup day but since I do pro/carb meals all day thats pretty useless.
So next week im gonna just drink all day saturday and consume lean protein and shakes all day like I usually do
Senior Member
I will give you an idea, buy my diet is very varied. So, this is what a typical day, might look like:
6AM Wake up. Take ECA stack.
9AM Post workout shake (I do 50 G Protein 4g carb).
1030-4 hard boiled egg whites and about .25 lb grilled chicken (they sell this stuff in the Korean Deli in My office building).
1230- I usually get mostly meat from one of the Korean delis nearby. Usually grilled chicken, broiled salmon, steak. The sell the stuff by weight and it usually comes out to about one pound. Once a week or so I'll take a salad instead with romaine lettuce, tofu, and grilled chicken, usually w/ blue cheese dressing.
300 or so. I am so hungry by now that I have to eat something. I usually take either a 1.5 oz bag of peanuts or an Atkins bar.
630-Dinner is really varied. Often make burgers, eaten without the bun made at home. I eat about .85lb of beef precooked top it with low-carb ketchup and sometimes a slice of American cheese. I will serve it with coleslaw that I make using shredded cabbage, vinegar, splenda, and one tsp of mayo.
Sometimes I'll make Satay, but use splenda instead of sugar, and it tastes the same. If this is the case I might serve it with bok choi.
Sometimes I make it with a tofu salad that has romaine lettuce extra firm tofu and Japanese sesame salad dressing.
Sometimes I'll have desert consisting of an Atkins muffin.
(930pm) I feel hungry again sometimes so I’ll eat PB and celery. Probably not great for cutting, but it fills me up.
1030 or 11, I take a protein shake w/ 50 grams of protein and I add 1 heaping tablespoon of selenium husk to add fiber. It keeps me from getting hungry at night and helps keep me regular.
Other things that I do:
-Take a very high potency vitamin every day.
-Take L-Glutamine
-Take L-Carnatine
I use this diet pretty much for cutting or bulking and adjust portions more than anything to accomplish my short term objectives.
I am not advocating this for anyone else, just responding to your question asking what I do.
Last edited by beenie; 11-26-2006 at 11:38 AM.
Junior Member
Wow,what ever works for you works.Thats great stuff Beenie and its against what everyone one else does.Is that a keto diet?Im confused as its very low carb and very low fat.Egg whites and grilled chicken is not keto yet every time ive done atkins I felt that I should cut fat more to lose weight.
Ive think you stated earlier in thread that the pro/carb diet is geared towards growth.I agree and as i have done keto and lost fat I feel its just not efficient at muscle growth.I also seem to get kicked out of keto alot and never feel good.If I eat small pro/carb meals thuout day then I feel my best.To each their own is the way to go regarding what you consume daily.
Have you ever thought of taken some omegu oil.I eat low fat all day and just consume one tbsp Udo's oil blend for healthy fats.I notice it in my skin and it has other unseen benefits.While Udo's has an ideal ratio of omegu 3/6/9 it is expensive.You can just take flax and get benefits.It does add 140 calories per day though.
Last edited by wolfstrike; 11-26-2006 at 07:53 AM.
Senior Member
You may need to manage fat. If you go too low in fat, everything will come off- fat and muscle. Eat as much fat as you need to so that you retain or gain muscle.
I tried it for a while and discontued. I dont see where itr would cause hard to have it healthy fats are not bad. The meat I eat has fat, the nuts have lots of fat, sometimes if I cant get the egg whotes I'll have whole eggs, just do the egg whites because that is one of the ways they are sold in my Korean deli. I figure, why have it if I dont need it, right?Ive think you stated earlier in thread that the pro/carb diet is geared towards growth.I agree and as i have done keto and lost fat I feel its just not efficient at muscle growth.I also seem to get kicked out of keto alot and never feel good.If I eat small pro/carb meals thuout day then I feel my best.To each their own is the way to go regarding what you consume daily.
Have you ever thought of taken some omegu oil.I eat low fat all day and just consume one tbsp Udo's oil blend for healthy fats.I notice it in my skin and it has other unseen benefits.While Udo's has an ideal ratio of omegu 3/6/9 it is expensive.You can just take flax and get benefits.It does add 140 calories per day though.
Some of the guys here are SUPER professional. They count everything sooooo closely. I just dont have the willpower to do it and what I do is easy to remember. Also I am never really hungry doing it the way I do (unless I am SUPER cutting).
If I were trying to compete, I would probably need to come around to thier way of thinking, but I dont think that it's gunna happen in MY lifetime. I had a trainer who wanted me to hire him who said he could get me there, but I never took him up on it because he is too expensive.
Often when I go to gyms other than my own, people assume that I am a trainer. I am never sure whether its cause I look in-shape or because my form is really good. I left the subject didn't I?
I know what I do diverges from what people say on this board, but for me it does work. At 23 you can get where you want doing it a lot of different methods. Find one that works for you and stick to it.
I thionk that its grteat that you are starting this now. In 6 months you can be where you want AND if you wait until you are older, it just gets more difficult. What's more, you will never have the ability to look better than you can now, so it would be a terrible loss to miss it now at a time when u CAN have it.
Keep me posted.
Last edited by beenie; 11-26-2006 at 11:36 AM.
Associate Member
I´m going to think about if I´m going to carbcycle or just do moderate carb the whole week and maybe add a highcarb day.
About at what percent of the calories should the carbs be on a high carb day, lowcarb day and moderate carb day?
The food that my mom or my sister offers me sometimes on the weekend is healthy like chickenfillets, wholewheat rice and greens or lean meat and rice or potatoes. I try to stay away from unhealthy food and cookies.
Last edited by bigeater; 11-26-2006 at 12:28 PM.
Associate Member
I have clen. Should I wait a couple of months until I start using it?
Associate Member
[QUOTE=bigeater]About at what percent of the calories should the carbs be on a high carb day, lowcarb day and moderate carb day?
QUOTE]
bump
Associate Member
ok. One last bumpity bump
Member
could you explain this more or provide proof of this comment. i realize insulin is released when eating but your saying a 6 ounce piece of chicken causes an insulin spike like bread or any other carb source? that makes no sense at all and would mean people eating protein/fat meals would be getting fatter as they diet down.Protein causes just as much insulin as carbs.
how is it that the gi index of white rice drops to 24 when combined with lean protein sources?
im just curious about this point you made. i've been dieting along time and this is the first time ever that someone has said protein and carbs release like amounts of insulin. this would mean all those atkin's people would never lose a pound.
Junior Member
The insulin effect of protein foods has me baffled.I hated when I stumbled on to that as it threw all my thoughts about insulin down the drain.I remember liostening to a debate between atkins,pritkin,the eades and other famous nutritionist of our time.Someone brought up the inslin index and how the low carb diets rant and rave on how they keep insulin low.Atkins beat around the bush and then subject changed.
http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/...es/fatloss.htm
http://www.mendosa.com/insulin_index.htm
Atkins works on ketosis and is a totally different beast.Ketosis is when blood sugar drops so low that the brain will die without fuel.The body then starts converting fat into ketones which act like carbs in the body.
Member
good info, thanks.
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