Front Loading, First Cycle, & Side Effects.......

[BGIZZLE8629]

Whats up? I decided to bring this question into the AAS ? and ANS. forum. I am going to do my first cycle of:
TEST. CYP. @ 500mg/wk for 12wks +
Proviron 25-50mg/day +
Nolva 10mg/day throughout cycle and PCT pretty soon and was wondering.......

CAN I FRONT LOAD ON MY FIRST CYCLE??? (Shoot 1g in wk #1)
IF SO, HOW BAD/WORSE DO THE SIDES BECOME IN DOING SO???(gyno,acne,mpb,ect....)

Stats: 6', 208, 17-18%B/F, Diet:Lean, Training=3-5 days/wk for about 1yr. straight, Goals: Add a Substantial Amount of Lean Mass, PCT=Clomid 300/day 1, 100/days 2-11, 50mg/days12-25(possibly go to about 35 days) + Nolva @ 20mg/ed for about 3-5wks (may also continue to take my Proviron and possibly Letro during PCT)

Thanks for all suggestions/comments/feeback/info/advice.

Thanks guys.

[BGIZZLE8629]

Bump

[zipster_dude]

I am not a vet, but if it were me, I would not shoot that much at all with a b/f% of 17. Seems as though the ester effects would be much higher. I might run clen for a couple weeks with a lean diet to shave body fat.

[BGIZZLE8629]

I am not a vet, but if it were me, I would not shoot that much at all with a b/f% of 17. Seems as though the ester effects would be much higher. I might run clen for a couple weeks with a lean diet to shave body fat.

Thats what I am doing right now. I am currently on week two of my clen cycle. I will probably run it for about 6-8wks. Any other info? Thanks

[hugovsilva]

Add dbol for the first 4 weeks.
For pct forget about the clomid, and add some hcg at 300-500mg/day.

That's my advice.

[perfectbeast2001]

just be patient and wait for your test to kick in. You can experiment with different styles and/or combinations further down the line.

[shredzs]

I dont think it will hurt to front load, just get your blood levels up quicker

[kynetguy]

If your "front load" with cyp, even at 1g, its still going to take some time to kick in. The only thing you are going is shooting more of a long ester test up front. Then when it does kick in, you are going to be greatly hormonally imballanced. The greater the fluctuations in blood levels the greater chance for sides.

Why not consider combining a low does of Test Prop the first couple weeks shot ED? This would get your test levels up faster without all the negatives of a huge introduction of a long ester.

So Vets? 25-50mg of Test Prop ED?

[BGIZZLE8629]

Add dbol for the first 4 weeks.
For pct forget about the clomid, and add some hcg at 300-500mg/day.

That's my advice.

I thought about adding d-bol.....Do you think the best dosage would be 20 or 30mg/ed?? Why no CLomid??? Thanks for your advice.

PerfectBeast
"just be patient and wait for your test to kick in. You can experiment with different styles and/or combinations further down the line."

So you dont think I should add anything (prop, or d-bol)???

Kynetguy
"If your "front load" with cyp, even at 1g, its still going to take some time to kick in. The only thing you are going is shooting more of a long ester test up front. Then when it does kick in, you are going to be greatly hormonally imballanced. The greater the fluctuations in blood levels the greater chance for sides.Why not consider combining a low does of Test Prop the first couple weeks shot ED? This would get your test levels up faster without all the negatives of a huge introduction of a long ester.

So Vets? 25-50mg of Test Prop ED?"

So you are stating that the side effects would be too harsh because of a great hormonal imbalance, therefore I shouldn't fronload right???

Waiting to see what any vets think about adding the prop ed. Does it have to be done ed or can it be eod????? Thanks for all the help everybody.

[kynetguy]

[B]So you are stating that the side effects would be too harsh because of a great hormonal imbalance, therefore I shouldn't fronload right???

No, I am saying a huge does of the same slower ester test is not going to reduce the time it takes to kick in. Its just going to give you a huge amount of test when it does kick in. Which at 17-18% BF is going to increast the amount of test that convert to estrogen and cause those issues.

When you front load, it is usually done with a compound that is faster acting, like Prop.

Yes, you can inj it EoD, but most reading I have done ED is prefered because of more stable test levels in your blood stream.

[getbig32]

well actually you can front load and it does work if it didnt then you couldnt use the short cycle theory on long esters but i wouldnt not advise to front load because the amount needed is too much for first cycle or 2nd or 3rd or well you get the point ....

[BGIZZLE8629]

No, I am saying a huge does of the same slower ester test is not going to reduce the time it takes to kick in. Its just going to give you a huge amount of test when it does kick in. Which at 17-18% BF is going to increast the amount of test that convert to estrogen and cause those issues.
When you front load, it is usually done with a compound that is faster acting, like Prop.

Yes, you can inj it EoD, but most reading I have done ED is prefered because of more stable test levels in your blood stream.

I thought that the point in front loading these types of esters is that it has your blood levels rising faster than it normally would with regular injections (day 1 - 500mg.... day 7 - blood has 250mg of steroid) (day 1 - 1g.....day 7 - blood has 500mg of steroid)??? I am confused then......

Even if as you stated, the huge amount of test kicks in wouldnt the proviron and nolva fight off excessive estrogen conversion?? would I need a "true" ai for that???(aromatase, arimidex, femara, ect....)??????

[BGIZZLE8629]

well actually you can front load and it does work if it didnt then you couldnt use the short cycle theory on long esters but i wouldnt not advise to front load because the amount needed is too much for first cycle or 2nd or 3rd or well you get the point ....

so you dont recommend it because it is my first cycle?? Thanks for the info

[axemurderer187]

bro, just kickstart with dbol or prop. keep your dosage of the test the same through your whole cycle. this is your first cycle right? you don't need to be front end loading with this cycle, dbol or prop will do the trick just fine. Your making this more complicated then it has to be. What do I mean by that, KISS (keep it simple stupid). Also, your going way overboard with all those anit e's.. Drop the Nolva while "on". Keep on the side if you need it. Start the proviron at PCT or if your libido gets wacked. $.02

[BGIZZLE8629]

I am going to keep the Proviron while on at least, because it actually may inhibit the protein synthesis of other AAS. I think it said that somewhere in Anabolics. What would your dosages for prop be?? 50mg/ed or 100mg/eod?? Thanks for the help. I will try to KISS next time.

[Hard Head]

Helloooooo. Is anyone home???

Test only with no frontload for any first cycle. Learn how your body reacts to the extra test before you add additional compounds.

This is no joke here bro. Don't fvck up yourself because you were too anxious.

[BGIZZLE8629]

Helloooooo. Is anyone home???

Test only with no frontload for any first cycle. Learn how your body reacts to the extra test before you add additional compounds.

This is no joke here bro. Don't fvck up yourself because you were too anxious.

ALRIGHT!! How many weeks do you guys think I should run this cycle for???

8?? 10?? 12??

I planned on doing twelve @500/wk b/c I have (3)10ml @200mg/ml vials and I didnt want to leave any in the last vial. Does leaving some in a vial make a difference?.. Is that a stupid reason to go 12 wks???

Thanks for all of the help.

[axemurderer187]

Helloooooo. Is anyone home???

Test only with no frontload for any first cycle. Learn how your body reacts to the extra test before you add additional compounds.

This is no joke here bro. Don't fvck up yourself because you were too anxious.

Agree with head, dude just keep it to one compound of test. Also I have taken the proviron while on and learned from experiance and research that anabolic properties are very very very minimal.

Sounds like you need to do much more research man. Your talking about protein synthesis w/Proviron???? Get some experience under your belt and read about Deca. It's infamous for rapidly protein synthesis breakdown.

[Hard Head]

I planned on doing twelve @500/wk b/c I have (3)10ml @200mg/ml vials and I didnt want to leave any in the last vial.

That will be fine as long as you have all of your pct compounds in your hands before you start.

[BGIZZLE8629]

sorry if thats what it sounds like but I have been doing research now for about 6months or so. I couldnt tell you exactly what the book said but somehow proviron helps other AAS do their job better as well as working as an ai at the same time. I have heard a lot of bad and some good things about deca, so i am a little hesitant on f*cking with that. Thanks for the info.

[axemurderer187]

As well you should be hesitant with deca, this is your first cycle....................

Bro I'm not trying to talk you out of anything. You are gonna to do what you are gonna do BUT this is your first cycle and you really should keep all the bells and whistles off for your first time. Keeping them on the side is not a bad idea. More is not better, remember that. See how your body reacts to the test first before you start thinking you need different compounds.

[kynetguy]

[QUOTE=BGIZZLE8629]I thought that the point in front loading these types of esters is that it has your blood levels rising faster than it normally would with regular injections (day 1 - 500mg.... day 7 - blood has 250mg of steroid) (day 1 - 1g.....day 7 - blood has 500mg of steroid)??? I am confused then...... [QUOTE]

Yes, you will get a higher level of test sooner frontloading with a slow ester. However, you will also get a much higher peak test level at 1g vs 500mg.

Listen to hardhead on this one. See how your body reacts to the additional test. The vets here are a WEALTH of experience and knowledge and know far far more than I. If its been done, if its been screwed up, if its been over done, SOMEONE on here has done it. Learn from their experience and knowledge. I certainly have.

Have you done bloodwork? YOU SHOULD ALWAYS GET BLOODWORK DONE BEFORE ANY CYCLE. If your lipid profile are whacked, then you will want to stay away from compounds that are known to mess them up, Anavar comes to mind on that one. If you already have high blood pressure, then you want to monitor yourself more closely than you may if your bloodpressure is already in check.

AAS are not toys, candy or a joke. You are messing with your endocrine system and throwing hormones out of whack. You change one hormone level and it throws a half a dozen others out of whack. Your body can deal with subtle steady changes a lot better than sudden influxes. Which is why everyone vet is screaming no front load on a first cycle. Until you gain first hand knowledge of YOUR BODY and its reaction, keep it simple and subtle.

The only front load I have seen vets recommend for a first cycle is dbol or test prop (at 50-75mg ED). Prop at these lower doses gives your a test increase at a slower more steady rate. Unlike Enan or Cyp which a gram of will throw you at levels way above what the 50 ED would.

More does not = better. Any vet will tell you to use the least amount of compounds that delivers the results and have REASONABLE goals for a cycle. 10-15lbs of lean mass (after PCT) is reasonable for a first cycle.

Another reason test only is recommended is that it will likely be the base for any subsequent cycle you do. You really need to experience what it does and how your body reacts to it. So that in future cycles when you add other compounds, you can differentiate what compounds are causing certain effects.

Walk, then run.

[BGIZZLE8629]

As well you should be hesitant with deca, this is your first cycle....................

Bro I'm not trying to talk you out of anything. You are gonna to do what you are gonna do BUT this is your first cycle and you really should keep all the bells and whistles off for your first time. Keeping them on the side is not a bad idea. More is not better, remember that. See how your body reacts to the test first before you start thinking you need different compounds.

so your saying that I shouldnt even throw Proviron in the mix??

[BGIZZLE8629]

[QUOTE=kynetguy][QUOTE=BGIZZLE8629]I thought that the point in front loading these types of esters is that it has your blood levels rising faster than it normally would with regular injections (day 1 - 500mg.... day 7 - blood has 250mg of steroid) (day 1 - 1g.....day 7 - blood has 500mg of steroid)??? I am confused then......

Yes, you will get a higher level of test sooner frontloading with a slow ester. However, you will also get a much higher peak test level at 1g vs 500mg.

Listen to hardhead on this one. See how your body reacts to the additional test. The vets here are a WEALTH of experience and knowledge and know far far more than I. If its been done, if its been screwed up, if its been over done, SOMEONE on here has done it. Learn from their experience and knowledge. I certainly have.

Have you done bloodwork? YOU SHOULD ALWAYS GET BLOODWORK DONE BEFORE ANY CYCLE. If your lipid profile are whacked, then you will want to stay away from compounds that are known to mess them up, Anavar comes to mind on that one. If you already have high blood pressure, then you want to monitor yourself more closely than you may if your bloodpressure is already in check.

AAS are not toys, candy or a joke. You are messing with your endocrine system and throwing hormones out of whack. You change one hormone level and it throws a half a dozen others out of whack. Your body can deal with subtle steady changes a lot better than sudden influxes. Which is why everyone vet is screaming no front load on a first cycle. Until you gain first hand knowledge of YOUR BODY and its reaction, keep it simple and subtle.

The only front load I have seen vets recommend for a first cycle is dbol or test prop (at 50-75mg ED). Prop at these lower doses gives your a test increase at a slower more steady rate. Unlike Enan or Cyp which a gram of will throw you at levels way above what the 50 ED would.

More does not = better. Any vet will tell you to use the least amount of compounds that delivers the results and have REASONABLE goals for a cycle. 10-15lbs of lean mass (after PCT) is reasonable for a first cycle.

Another reason test only is recommended is that it will likely be the base for any subsequent cycle you do. You really need to experience what it does and how your body reacts to it. So that in future cycles when you add other compounds, you can differentiate what compounds are causing certain effects.

Walk, then run.

Ok, I WILL NOT FRONTLOAD. I am definately trying to learn from the vet's experiences and knowledge. that is why I am here. I had bloodwork done about a month or so ago, but i didnt have all of my test levels and all of that stuff looked at. How much does all that bloodwork cost?? I heard it what like $500 or something crazy.....My blood pressure is fine though. I know that more does not = better...I am not trying to totally f*ck up every mechanism or hormone in my body, I was just looking for the best first cycle to run. So do you think that I shouldn't run the proviron (which serves as an ai) for my first cycle?? Thanks for your help

[Maldorf]

[QUOTE=BGIZZLE8629][QUOTE=kynetguy]

I thought that the point in front loading these types of esters is that it has your blood levels rising faster than it normally would with regular injections (day 1 - 500mg.... day 7 - blood has 250mg of steroid) (day 1 - 1g.....day 7 - blood has 500mg of steroid)??? I am confused then......

Ok, I WILL NOT FRONTLOAD. I am definately trying to learn from the vet's experiences and knowledge. that is why I am here. I had bloodwork done about a month or so ago, but i didnt have all of my test levels and all of that stuff looked at. How much does all that bloodwork cost?? I heard it what like $500 or something crazy.....My blood pressure is fine though. I know that more does not = better...I am not trying to totally f*ck up every mechanism or hormone in my body, I was just looking for the best first cycle to run. So do you think that I shouldn't run the proviron (which serves as an ai) for my first cycle?? Thanks for your help

Just about everyone would tell you to just do the test cyp at 500mg/wk and be done with it. 12 weeks would be fine. My first cycle was that and I made great gains on it. You need to learn how to walk before you run, so dont be in a hurry. See how your body reacts to the test and save the proviron for your next cycle.
I usually find that my gains seriously slow down or stop at about week 10, and if you see that happen to you I would suggest getting of and going into PCT. If the gains keep coming, then dont stop till you hit 12 weeks. If you remain on cycle even after you stop making gains youre just wasting your test and supressing yourself that much more. Do remember to keep increasing your calories as you go along.

[BGIZZLE8629]

I have another question. I just now realized that there is only about 69-72mgs of active steroid per 100mg......... that means that if I am injecting 500mg/wk - then I am only injecting 345..... should i inject like 725/wk in order to have 500mg/wk of active steroid in my blood?? I am not going to front load but wouldnt putting 725mg/in wk 1 and 500mg/wk every week thereafter make more sense? Correct me if I am wrong in any way. Thanks for the advice maldorf. I am finding it hard to believe that you guys think that I shouldnt take the proviron though - I would be taking it as an ai. Oh, well.... Let me know what you think. Thanks again.

[Maldorf]

I have another question. I just now realized that there is only about 69-72mgs of active steroid per 100mg......... that means that if I am injecting 500mg/wk - then I am only injecting 345..... should i inject like 725/wk in order to have 500mg/wk of active steroid in my blood?? I am not going to front load but wouldnt putting 725mg/in wk 1 and 500mg/wk every week thereafter make more sense? Correct me if I am wrong in any way. Thanks for the advice maldorf. I am finding it hard to believe that you guys think that I shouldnt take the proviron though - I would be taking it as an ai. Oh, well.... Let me know what you think. Thanks again.

Being your first cycle, the 500mg/week of test cyp will be plenty.
For an Ai I would just use arimidex. Start at just .25 mg/day and see if that does the job. It should.

[BGIZZLE8629]

Being your first cycle, the 500mg/week of test cyp will be plenty.
For an Ai I would just use arimidex. Start at just .25 mg/day and see if that does the job. It should.

What about letro? Which one suppresses estrogen more? I forget? And do you mean 500mg/wk of active steroid (725mg/wk of solution) or 500mg/wk of the solution thats in the vial?? Thanks

[Hard Head]

You should not need an ai with 500 mg of test a week. slow down there cowboy. Just run the TEST ONLY FOR YOUR FIRST CYCLE. Don't make me say it again.

[axemurderer187]

so your saying that I shouldnt even throw Proviron in the mix??

no no no, proviron is a good thing and I encourage it but IMO I feel that running through your cycle has catalys effect because of the anti e's.

I would do the following with the proviron

1. Take it if your libido drops (at anytime of your cycle), if your not having libido problems which you shouldn't cause your only taking test then don't bother taking it yet.

2. Start taking the proviron durring recovery, remember proviron is an estrogen blocker and does not have the same effect as nolvadex BUT you might want to consider dosage of nolva lower if you decide to use the proviron. Ya Dig?

Glad to see your open to change and not just diving into your cycle. I wish I knew then what I know now and get my first cycle back. Anyway we can help brother...GL

-Axe

[axemurderer187]

I have another question. I just now realized that there is only about 69-72mgs of active steroid per 100mg......... that means that if I am injecting 500mg/wk - then I am only injecting 345..... should i inject like 725/wk in order to have 500mg/wk of active steroid in my blood?? I am not going to front load but wouldnt putting 725mg/in wk 1 and 500mg/wk every week thereafter make more sense? Correct me if I am wrong in any way. Thanks for the advice maldorf. I am finding it hard to believe that you guys think that I shouldnt take the proviron though - I would be taking it as an ai. Oh, well.... Let me know what you think. Thanks again.

as for your second question, remember what I told your before. KISS, just do the 500mg a week. Pretty much all steroids are underdosed somewhat so don't read into this. Also, the're will be plenty of time to do cycles after this one so do it properly and don't hurt yourself. And you don't have to make it difficult. I believe you said you were going to do 2 injections a week. Good, just do 1 Cc of cyp on shot day twice a week and your money.

[axemurderer187]

now i gotta go get some pussy so PM me if you have any more questions...peace

[b&b]

I am relatively new to anabolics but have one side effect --hair loss -that I am very afraid of. What are the best anabolics that give the best results with limited hair loss as a side effect?
Thank you

[axemurderer187]

I am relatively new to anabolics but have one side effect --hair loss -that I am very afraid of. What are the best anabolics that give the best results with limited hair loss as a side effect?
Thank you

bro, if you have a question like that start your own thread instead of hijacking somebody elses.

btw: welcome to the board.

[BGIZZLE8629]

You should not need an ai with 500 mg of test a week. slow down there cowboy. Just run the TEST ONLY FOR YOUR FIRST CYCLE. Don't make me say it again.

I thought that if your b/f% was a little bit higher then, you would need an AI??? Say it again??

[BGIZZLE8629]

no no no, proviron is a good thing and I encourage it but IMO I feel that running through your cycle has catalys effect because of the anti e's.
I would do the following with the proviron

1. Take it if your libido drops (at anytime of your cycle), if your not having libido problems which you shouldn't cause your only taking test then don't bother taking it yet.

2. Start taking the proviron durring recovery, remember proviron is an estrogen blocker and does not have the same effect as nolvadex BUT you might want to consider dosage of nolva lower if you decide to use the proviron. Ya Dig?

Glad to see your open to change and not just diving into your cycle. I wish I knew then what I know now and get my first cycle back. Anyway we can help brother...GL

-Axe

Im j/w, I dont really know what you mean by a catalyst effect b/c of the anti-e's??

During recovery? Do you mean - after last inj. but before PCT? or are you just talking about PCT??

Yea, I am definately open minded to change and appreciate all of your guys' help.... Thanks again

[BGIZZLE8629]

as for your second question, remember what I told your before. KISS, just do the 500mg a week. Pretty much all steroids are underdosed somewhat so don't read into this. Also, the're will be plenty of time to do cycles after this one so do it properly and don't hurt yourself. And you don't have to make it difficult. I believe you said you were going to do 2 injections a week. Good, just do 1 Cc of cyp on shot day twice a week and your money.

So your dosages arent dependent on how much "active steroid" the substance actually has??? J/w

I think that I would have to do 1.5cc/shot.... How do you suggest that I do this?? Like every monday and then on friday? Should I keep the shots on the same days every week or should i just do like e3rd or 4th day??

[BGIZZLE8629]

Being your first cycle, the 500mg/week of test cyp will be plenty.
For an Ai I would just use arimidex. Start at just .25 mg/day and see if that does the job. It should.

How can you tell that it is enough or not?? If you feel bloated or something?

[axemurderer187]

Im j/w, I dont really know what you mean by a catalyst effect b/c of the anti-e's??

During recovery? Do you mean - after last inj. but before PCT? or are you just talking about PCT??

anti e's = Anti Estrogen : if you have no symptoms of gyno then give your liver a break, there is no need to take these while your ON. Anti estrogens can minimumly inhibit your gains while your on steroids. That's why people choose to leave them out while on gear and to be more friendly to your liver.

Recovery = PCT (post cycle therapy) start taking your proviron about a week after your last injection or when you feel that you are not gaining anymore. I would just keep it simple for now so just take a week or so after your last injection.

Don't stress so hard on the proviron dude, what you should be conserned about is your test. That's your meat and potatoes for your cycle.

[axemurderer187]

So your dosages arent dependent on how much "active steroid" the substance actually has??? J/w

I think that I would have to do 1.5cc/shot.... How do you suggest that I do this?? Like every monday and then on friday? Should I keep the shots on the same days every week or should i just do like e3rd or 4th day??

No, your dosage depends on the ML's, MG's of your gear.

For example if you had a bottle of test cyponate @ 250mg, 10ml bottle then you would do 1 Cc shot (which is 250mg) twice a week to get to your 500mg target amount.

You should grow nicely with that dosage for your first cycle.

Don't do e3d or e4d. Just do a 2 day split. Inject on Monday and Thursday. The good thing about cyponate is it's long half life which means it stays longer in your system and you don't have to do frequent shots.