M1T/4AD Bulk Cycle

[rukus43]

Alright Fellas:
I am planning on starting my cycle this coming Monday (Feb. 26). I want to get as much feedback between now and then so that I am on the right path. A log with be started along with pics when I begin the cycle. This will be a 4-week cycle, which will include a clean bulking diet and focus on compounds/core movements in training (but I will post about this in the diet and workout forums).

CURRENT STATS:
6'0"-----185 lbs.-- ~12% bf (will post pictures in my log to get a better idea)
goals: 200 lbs, 8% bf (30 min. cardio in AM at 60%-70% of max heart rate)

I am planning on stacking the M1T with 4AD (4-androstenediol) as it will decrease sides of M1T including lethargy.

On cycle supps:
Whey Protein, Casein Protein (prior to sleep), L-Glutamine, BCAA’s, NO Shotgun, Ergopharm AMP, and Ester C.
I have been taking the following supporting supps for about a year now so I guess you can say I am already “pre-loaded” but I will increase the necessary dosages and they will be followed through PCT:
Multi Vitamin, CLA, Fish Oils, Flax Seed(powder), Milk Thistle, Hawthorne Berry, Saw Palmetto, Niacin, Co-Q 10, Vitamin C, Vitamin B-Complex (B-12 to fight loss of appetite), Vitamin E, and Biotin

M1T:
Wk 1: 10 mg/day
Wk 2: 10 mg/day
Wk 3: 15 mg/day
Wk 4: 15 mg/day

4AD (using 300mg/every 5mg of M1T)- unfortunately its not transdermal:
Wk 1-2: 600mg/day
Wk 3-4: 900mg/day
(However, I may take 1000mg/day as that is equivalent to 50mg Test Prop- any advice is welcome)

PCT (from Upstate’s log):
*Creatine- CEE loading immediately upon completion of cycle.
*Begin ECA stack
Nolva:
1st week: 40mg/day
2nd week: 40mg/day
3rd week: 20mg/day
4th week: 20mg/day

Clomid:
1st week: 105mg/day
2nd week: 105mg/day
3rd week: 70mg/day
4th week: 70mg/day

As always, any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Love this forum. Thanks bros.

[UpstateTank]

someone did their homework!!!


I wouldnt stack the eca w/ clen...it would be redundant for one, and it would put more stress on your body than needed.
I do think however, just eca would be a good addition to pct for ya. Beware of your bp spiking when you first start and if need be just add in some more hawthorne berry to keep it under control.

I'll be following ya brother...cant wait to see how it turns out for ya!

[rukus43]

Thanks Tank,
I wanted to know, since you ran M1T solo, if stacking with 4AD was truly very important. I feel that lethargy affects me more than average and this is why I really wanted to stack with 4AD but is it really that important? By the way, thanks for the feedback and you have provided a lot of information for me via your posts and logs...thanks again.

[Manpretty]

the 4ad helps with appitite too seeing as how the M1T will suppress it....
if you dont already have your M1T then you could try and find a brand that already has the 4ad and M1T all in one pill...
from my experience M1 will work much better @ 20mged but its your choice 10mg may work great for you wait and see!

your PCT of nova and clomid is good but clomid is not nessary IMO
instead you may want to look into aromasin @ 25mged and here is why

quoting goose from another thread with a similar topic
" 20mgs of Tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but Tamoxifen doesn’t decrease the LH response to LHRH I think most people agree to Nolvadex’s superiority for PCT,clomid has really bad sides.
I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex . So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness.Aromasin at 25mg, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20%.So Aromasin is for PCT in your cycle,you will be shut down very hard with these compounds so your PCT is just as important as the rest of the cycle."

[rukus43]

Yes, I remember reading the discussion about this. I actually have this paragraph pasted on a word document. Maybe I can get an opinion from Upstate since he is in his PCT for his M1T cycle and my PCT is the same as his. It would be helpful to get the opinion of someone who is actually using it right now. Thanks for the feeback. Oh, and as for the M1T dosage, I am going to run it 10mg the first week and am not closed to running it at 20 mg. I just want to see how I react. Thanks again.

[Got Insulin?]

u found 4 ad ugh u lucky dog...found m1t but no 4ad..still looking for that needle in the hay

[UpstateTank]

Thanks Tank,
I wanted to know, since you ran M1T solo, if stacking with 4AD was truly very important. I feel that lethargy affects me more than average and this is why I really wanted to stack with 4AD but is it really that important? By the way, thanks for the feedback and you have provided a lot of information for me via your posts and logs...thanks again.

ive never had ne experience w/ 4ad...from what ive read i dont know if i would classify it as a "necessity" per se (for example if your'e worried about lethargy, the ester c can/should take care of that), but i think the cycle would be much better with it added in cause of the synergy between the 2 compounds etc.

Yes, I remember reading the discussion about this. I actually have this paragraph pasted on a word document. Maybe I can get an opinion from Upstate since he is in his PCT for his M1T cycle and my PCT is the same as his. It would be helpful to get the opinion of someone who is actually using it right now. Thanks for the feeback. Oh, and as for the M1T dosage, I am going to run it 10mg the first week and am not closed to running it at 20 mg. I just want to see how I react. Thanks again.

Heres my personal experience on the whole nolva/clomid/aromasin debate.
After my sd cycle the pct i ran was:
clomid: 105mg/day first 2 weeks, 70mg/day last 2 weeks
aromasin: 25mg/day all 4 weeks

and after my m1t cycle the pct i ran was:
clomid: 105mg/day first 2 weeks, 70mg/day last 2 weeks
nolva: 40mg/day first 2 weeks, 20mg/day last 2 weeks

Creatine was taken during both pct's as well.

One thing I can say in favor of the clomid/nolva is my libido seemed to recover better than it did w/ clomid/aromasin. Of course one could always argue that maybe the superdrol shut me down harder than the m1t (although i highly doubt it). One thing I can say in favor of clomid/aromasin was my strength and weight gains continued to progress even through pct (eg i hit my all time high on deadlifts during my 2nd week of pct)...but again one could argue that my diet played a more important role in that being i was consuming approx 4100cal/day during my clomid/aromasin pct whereas i have only been consuming 3000cal/day for my clomid/nolva pct.

If you read through the M1T Faq posted by NSA, you will find he reccomends nolva/clomid post cycle although at the same time i wouldnt see why clomid/aromasin wouldnt be just as effective (and honestly i think you could benefit even further from myogenx being added into the mix)

[rukus43]

I am going to go with the clomid/nolva PCT. Upstate, anything you would change or do differently looking back on your cycle? Any other advice is welcome....thanks again everybody.

[UpstateTank]

I am going to go with the clomid/nolva PCT. Upstate, anything you would change or do differently looking back on your cycle? Any other advice is welcome....thanks again everybody.

the only thing i would have changed would be to not restrict my caloric intake while on cycle as much as i did.

SD i was taking in 4100cal/day, while M1T i was taking in only 3400cal/day. i felt i had put on too much bf from my "bulking diet" (not to mention i didnt do cardio ) so i used the m1t as a "bridge" to cutting. Not to say I didnt get good results, but I know if i would have eaten like a horse they would have been better.

[rukus43]

Okay. I will post some diet information in the pertinent forum and figure that out there. So, all in all it seems like I am on the right track. I really hope to reach my goals and, moreso, hope to keep the majority of my gains.

[Manpretty]

I am going to run it 10mg the first week and am not closed to running it at 20 mg. I just want to see how I react. Thanks again.

yeah for sure man...i was just saying wait and see if your not getting expected results off of 10mged bump to 20 thats all.....20mged is fine it wont kill you esp with all your ancilliaries.. good luck fella

[UpstateTank]

Okay. I will post some diet information in the pertinent forum and figure that out there. So, all in all it seems like I am on the right track. I really hope to reach my goals and, moreso, hope to keep the majority of my gains.

lemme know when you post your diet up...and honestly w/ the plan of attack you have i cant see any reason why you wont reach your goals

[rukus43]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I will let you know about my diet as soon as I get a chance to type it out. I am really looking forward to this cycle.

[rukus43]

Just to update. I will be taking 800mg/day 4AD for 30 days. This will be split into 4 capsules throughout the day (evenly spaced?). Two of which will be taken with the M1T (9 A.M. with meal 1 and 6 P.M. (no later than 6pm) with meal 4. This will be the dosing of the anabolics. The support sups will also be taken in an AM/PM split. How much of the Ester-C should be taken daily (I have 1000mg tablets)? Comments please. Thanks.

[number twelve]

hey bro good luck with everything, im glad to see a thread that has some thought behind it, unlike some others that have been posted up lately.

i dont have any experience with either 4ad or m1t, but im def gonna follow your progress.

-12

[UpstateTank]

Just to update. I will be taking 800mg/day 4AD for 30 days. This will be split into 4 capsules throughout the day (evenly spaced?). Two of which will be taken with the M1T (9 A.M. with meal 1 and 6 P.M. (no later than 6pm) with meal 4. This will be the dosing of the anabolics. The support sups will also be taken in an AM/PM split. How much of the Ester-C should be taken daily (I have 1000mg tablets)? Comments please. Thanks.

Start of ester C dosage at 6g/day (6 pills)

Take one pill 1 hour preworkout, and one immediately pwo
Split the rest up evely throughout the day

[rukus43]

Thanks 12...and thanks Upstate...I have posted my diet in the diet forum (it will definitely need some detailing and tweaking) feel free to bash it if you feel it necessary.

I am having some issues with timing and dosing of the supporting supps. For the NO shotgun supplement- do you think I should take it to the gym and sip it during training? Also, for the 4AD do the timings seem good? I really want to make sure I am doing this right. I am also posting a log since I have started today. Thanks.

[rukus43]

Link to diet:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=287718

[K.Biz]

i will def be following this i this is my ideal next cycle. looking good bro. and good diet, but make sure you check that protien intake during meal 2. with guessing i would say about 70-85G of protien, and its not needed. besides that u look to be in good shape. oh and first few days watch the BP, might cause a few headaches... but after that watch the weight pack on bro and the strength skyrocket

The No shotgun should be taking 20-30min before the gym. and this should help with apetite to, as i feel like after i get out of the gym while uysing NO shotgun i am starving!

As far as times seperating the supps ill look into it.

[rukus43]

Thanks K,
I will be honing the diet over the next few days. Hopefully I have it completely set by Wednesday. I should have done this beforehand. Aside from that, lets keep the comments in the diet thread so I can keep track and edit it more easily. Also, do you think I should drink my BCAA's in the gym or just water like I usually do. Thanks fellas.

[K.Biz]

Some people say BCAA's should be taking before, some say in the gym. I found it was better if i sipped on them in the gym. Im pretty sure #12 did the same. watch out though, those things taste like dirty asshole

w/e you prefer, I liked it in the gym much more then as a PREWO.

[rukus43]

To clarify what I needed help with with regards to the supporting supps please take a look at my first post in this thread. Look at the list of supporting supps and let me know timing and amounts needed of:
Casein Protein (prior to sleep), L-Glutamine, BCAA’s, NO Shotgun (30 min before gym), Ergopharm AMP, and Ester C (information already given by Upstate), Milk Thistle, Hawthorne Berry, Saw Palmetto, Niacin, Co-Q 10, Vitamin C, and Vitamin E

[rukus43]

To make it easier on everyone...just let me know what to change if need be:
Casein (prior to sleep)- 50 grams
L-Glutamine- 10 grams daily
BCAA's- 20 grams daily (will drink during training)
NO Shotgun (30 minutes before gym/ will take with Ester C pill)
Ergopharm AMP- One in morning and one with NO Shotgun (if necessary)
Ester C- one pre-wo and one pwo and the rest evenly spaced out (total 6000mg)
Milk Thistle- 600mg in AM and 600mg in PM (total 1200mg)
Hawthorne Berry- 300mg daily
Saw Palmetto- 160mg daily
Co-Q 10- 400mg daily
Vitamin C-1000mg daily
Vitamin E- 400mg AM and 400mg PM (total 800mg)
Niacin- 600mg AM and 600mg PM (total 1200mg)

[K.Biz]

To make it easier on everyone...just let me know what to change if need be:
Casein (prior to sleep)- 50 grams
L-Glutamine- 10 grams daily
BCAA's- 20 grams daily (will drink during training)
NO Shotgun (30 minutes before gym/ will take with Ester C pill)
Ergopharm AMP- One in morning and one with NO Shotgun (if necessary)
Ester C- one pre-wo and one pwo and the rest evenly spaced out (total 6000mg)
Milk Thistle- 1200mg in AM and 1200mg in PM (total 2400mg)
Hawthorne Berry- 300mg AM 300mg PM daily
Saw Palmetto- 160mg daily
Co-Q 10- 400mg daily
Vitamin C-1000mg daily
Vitamin E- 400mg AM and 400mg PM (total 800mg)
Niacin- 600mg AM and 600mg PM (total 1200mg)

I bolded what should be chaged. milk thistle is dirt cheap and your liver is way to key not to protect well enough so i bumped that dosage up to what i ran for my SD cycle. 2400mg is much more sufficient

Also i dunno what your mg for hawthorn berry was but i took mine 500mg twice a day, you can keep it at 300 but bumping it up 200-30-0mg wouldnt hurt.

As for as the AMP, its not needed at all. unless you really feel that lethargic, and u prob wont need it till week 2 anyway, if at all.

Everything else to me looks good, im sure someone else will change some more though. wait till upstate shows, he ruins everything

[rukus43]

Thanks K...I will have to get some more thistle...but no prob